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My CC permit means I can't OC?

Sonora Rebel

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It's the flag of Southern seccession... Used now days to signify States Rights... Y'all remember those?
 

Sonora Rebel

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No... I don't.

I Do know the Bonnie Blue was flyin' from near every window in downtown Baltimore when Butlers yankees siezed the place... and the State. Also why it's still flown in SW Arizona.My home included. But... I fly all 5 of the Confederate flags regularly... plus some others from the Revolution and the Texas Republic.
 

XD-GEM

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OK, I just got off of the phone with Sgt. Jason Starnes at the LSP Concealed Handgun Unit. He confirmed what we have been saying all along: the Concealed Carry permit is simply a license that lets people know that you are not violating RS 14:95, the Illegal Carrying of Concealed Weapons. Obtaining a license does NOT cancel your Constitutional right to open carry.

He suggested that this misinformation probably comes from a misreading of Louisiana Administrative Code Tittle 55, Part I Section 1301 (D):
Duties and Responsibilities. Persons issued concealed handgun permits have the authority only to carry a concealed weapon and are regarded as private citizens in all matters of law with no special powers or authority ccruing by virtue of the concealed handgun permit.
The misreading comes from stopping at the end of the first clause without looking at the whole rule in context. The rule is intended to clarify that having a concealed permit does not make one a law officer; it does not prescribe the method of carry.

Sgt. Starnes also said that there is a false idea that there is a violation of law if your concealed handgun is accidentally exposed. For instance, if you are concealing under an untucked shirt and reach to a top shelf in a store and your shirt rides up exposing your handgun, then you are NOT in violation of the concealed handgun law (assuming you have a permit, of course).

I'd like to add that Sgt. Starnes was a pleasure to talk with, and he said that anyone with any questions should feel free to call himat the Unit (225) 925-4867. Be aware, however, that he and his staff of 3 are also the ones doing permit approvals, so don't tie them up too long - the permit you delay may be your own.
 

Sonora Rebel

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"Persons issued concealed handgun permits have the authority only to carry a concealed weapon..."

Only... therein lies the rub. Badly worded... could be construed that OC is not 'allowed'. However, OC is a pre-existing'Right'... not something 'allowed'.
 

Louisiana Carry

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That is great.

The last Sgt. was not of the same attitude. He knew that OC is legal, but said he would purposely interpret the brandishing clause of the negligent carry statute as applying to a holstered weapon ifyou had a permit. We got a tad bit sideways at that point in the conversation.

RS 40:1382 Negligent carrying of a concealed handgun

[align=justify]A. Negligent carrying of a concealed handgun is the intentional or criminally negligent carrying by any person, whether or not authorized or licensed to carry or possess a concealed handgun, under the following circumstances:[/align]
[align=justify](1) When it is foreseeable that the handgun may discharge, or when others are placed in reasonable apprehension that the handgun may discharge.[/align]
[align=justify](2) When the handgun is being carried, brandished, or displayed under circumstances that create a reasonable apprehension on the part of members of the public or a law enforcement official that a crime is being committed or is about to be committed.[/align]
[align=justify]B. It shall be within the discretion of the law enforcement officer to issue a summons to a person accused of committing this offense in lieu of making a physical arrest. The seizure of the handgun pending resolution of the offense shall only be discretionary in the instance where the law enforcement officer issues a summons to the person accused. If the law enforcement officer makes a physical arrest of the person accused, the handgun and the person's license to carry such handgun shall be seized.[/align]
[align=justify]C. Whoever commits the offense of negligent carrying of a concealed handgun shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars, or imprisoned without hard labor for not more than six months, or both. The adjudicating judge may also order the forfeiture of the handgun and may suspend or revoke any permit or license authorizing the carrying of the handgun.[/align]
[align=justify]Acts 1996, 1st Ex. Sess., No. 4, §1, eff. April 19, 1996.[/align]
 

XD-GEM

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Well, the Louisiana Supreme Court disagrees with the last sergeant's opinion of the definition of brandishing. As has been posted elsewhere on this board, State v. Fluker and State v. Ferrand settled that long ago.

I was prepared to make this argument, if needed, but it never came up in my conversation with Sgt. Starnes. He did refer to open carry as "cowboy style," but I wasn't sure whether he meant that in a derogatory manner or if it was simply a vividly picturesque description. As he was so pleasant and helpful, I chose to believe the latter, because we used the example of someone who wanted to carry a pistol (in addition to his long arm) while hunting, say for the purpose of shooting a threatening snake. He said it would be absurd that the state would require him to conceal a pistol in that situation simply for having a concealed handgun permit. He was also audibly exasperated that there were still some instructors giving out bogus information.
 

Louisiana Carry

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The guy who taught my first course said this, too.

I tried to politely point out his error, but he was not having it. He is a Catholic Mason Sherrif's Deputy, and I don't know if you have ever tried to argue with a Catholic Mason Sherrif's Deputy, but it is a losing battle, that's for sure. :lol:


So I called the NRA training division (who certifies him for that course) and asked them to correct him.
 

XD-GEM

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Can't say that I've even heard the term "Catholic Mason" anything, but it sounds imposing.:)

BTW, you and Sonora might like to know about something else I discovered by chance in my search of Louisiana laws. It seems Louisiana still has some tax exemptions and pension benefits on the books for Confederate veterans and their widows. And all of us can take comfort in the fact that Louisiana requires that any Communist propaganda being distributed MUST be labelled as Communist Propaganda; otherwise it would be illegal to distribute it.:D
 

Sonora Rebel

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XD-GEM wrote:
And all of us can take comfort in the fact that Louisiana requires that any Communist propaganda being distributed MUST be labelled as Communist Propaganda; otherwise it would be illegal to distribute it.:D
I reckon Obama's campaign stuff ain't up to snuff with LA law then... :uhoh:
 

XD-GEM

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Sonora Rebel wrote:
"Persons issued concealed handgun permits have the authority only to carry a concealed weapon..."

Only... therein lies the rub. Badly worded... could be construed that OC is not 'allowed'. However, OC is a pre-existing'Right'... not something 'allowed'.

Yeah, no one ever said the Legislature was full of excelent gramaticists.

I've thought a bitabout this law as it is written (bold is my addition):

Duties and Responsibilities. Persons issued concealed handgun permits have the authority only to carry a concealed weapon and are regarded as private citizens in all matters of law with no special powers or authority ccruing by virtue of the concealed handgun permit.


"authority" means the granting of permission. Permission is not needed to exercise a right.

"regarded as private citizens in all matters of law" Clearly private citizens already have open carry rights under all matters of law.

A reasonable reading of this statute, then, clearly indicates that it is intended to state that having a Concealed Handgun Permit doesn't make anyone a law enforcement officer. It also clearly is meant to state that the sole exemption from state law granted by the permit is an exemption to the law concerning concealed carry of a weapon.

So as you stated, OC is a pre-existing right and not something simply allowed"."
 

italianboy

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I say why take the risk? My instructor made an interesting analogy. He said, "let's say you walk into a gas station during a robery, and you have no idea what is going on, and you walk in with a gun showing openly on your side. While we know that most armed robbers are desperate, you may simply get shot mistaken you were a police officer or because you were an open threat to the armed robber. I know this debate could go either way, and I am all for citizen's rights. I guess it would be a judgement call for the individual on whether to OC or CC. I myself, I like to CC but make it very obvious that I am carrying a weapon, by barely covering my weapon or wearing a tight shirt to where you can see what is on my hip.

In the same manner, I like having the advantage if a situation does occur. I don't like attention (must be the Italian in me). I don't like attracting attention and no matter how you look at it, if someone walks into an establishment, andwith afire arm openly displayed attached to your hip, YOU ARE GOING TO GET STARES AND LOOKS. That's the reality behind it.
 

Sonora Rebel

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"YOU ARE GOING TO GET STARES AND LOOKS. That's the reality behind it."

So? Self conscience? :? The REALITY... is that you (legitimately) are taking pro-active responsibility for your own defense. You choose to do that. The SHEEP who stare may never do that. That's their choice too.

The snowbirds 'n Kommiefornians here gimme the 'stare' all the time. (I OC a 1911-A1) But... this being AZ... there's no fear of any MWAG scenario. OC's been normal (repeat... NORMAL) here since before there was an Arizona... other than a brief episode with them gun grabbin' yankee Earp's in Tombstone back when. Well... the Earp's are long gone 'n the Clanton's are still there.

So... you're gonna stay with Quid Pro Quo... 'cause 'nobody else does it'? Baaaa! ;)
 
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