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2nd Leo encounter in 2 days.

j2l3

j2l3

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Next time he does something stupid, ask for his guards license. He is required by state law to carry it at all times while on duty and present it on demand.

I would guess he isn't carrying it and if he can't even comply with the law that pertains to him directly, he shouldn't be trying to get others to comply with laws he has no clue about.
 
D

David.Car

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Gene Beasley wrote:
Just because I'm a stickler for citations,RWC 18.170.070 (1)(b)&(1)(c).

[edit] for being a stickler, I should have grabbed the right letters -- fixed
Click to expand...
Question becomes does that pertain to citizen requests? I know if a normal person came up to me and asked for my ID there would be no chance in hell I would give it to them.

(Work in security, always have my license on me)
 
B

Bear 45/70

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David.Car wrote:
Gene Beasley wrote:
Just because I'm a stickler for citations,RWC 18.170.070 (1)(b)&(1)(c).

[edit] for being a stickler, I should have grabbed the right letters -- fixed
Click to expand...
Question becomes does that pertain to citizen requests? I know if a normal person came up to me and asked for my ID there would be no chance in hell I would give it to them.

(Work in security, always have my license on me)
Click to expand...
If the law doesn't specify who, but just says upon request, then anyone can ask. The CPL law is specifywho you must show it to on request an citizens are included.
 
DEROS72

DEROS72

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Are you saying Bear that if joe citizen walks up to me and demands to see my CPL I am required to show him???
 
B

Bear 45/70

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DEROS72 wrote:
Are you saying Bear that if joe citizen walks up to me and demands to see my CPL I am required to show him???
Click to expand...
NO, The CPL lawsays must show when asked by authorized persons, Cops, etc. The Mall Ninja's law says they must show the permit on request and it doesn't say anything else.
 
jbone

jbone

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deanf wrote:
And it seems that not showing your mall ninja license on request is a gross misdemeanor:

RCW 18.170.160
Click to expand...
May have missed it, bit did'nt see where the security guard has to show you his security guard license?


edit: Sorry, just saw it in RCW 18.170.070
 
D

David.Car

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I always knew I had to show it to a LEO, but I don't think I would show it to a citizen. Despite what that RCW says, I don't have to provide my drivers license to just anyone and I would prefer to keep it that way with all my information.

If someone ever did have a problem with me not showing them my security license I can always just say, I will contact the police and we can both wait around for one of their officers to come around whom I would be more than happy to prove my security status too.... I don't think there are too many people who would want to wait 30+ minutes for an officer to arrive at a non emergency scene.
 
B

Bear 45/70

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David.Car wrote:
I always knew I had to show it to a LEO, but I don't think I would show it to a citizen. Despite what that RCW says, I don't have to provide my drivers license to just anyone and I would prefer to keep it that way with all my information.

If someone ever did have a problem with me not showing them my security license I can always just say, I will contact the police and we can both wait around for one of their officers to come around whom I would be more than happy to prove my security status too.... I don't think there are too many people who would want to wait 30+ minutes for an officer to arrive at a non emergency scene.
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You would then have committed a crime and if found guilty of that gross misdemeanor you could be jailed and/or fined. The laws says squat about waiting for a cop and if you made we wait for a cop, I sure as hell am gonna screw with your time and money and file charges.
 
DEROS72

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Very good Bear.I would agree.This security guard that stopped me I think although didn,t seem to know the law and after I explained the best I could did not seem to want to push the issue any further.I am still waiting to see him around again to give him a pamphlet and enlighten him further.I never read either where it says we are required to wait for a LEO.
 
O

owensd

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I don't understand why people are talking about showing your driver's license to random citizen's. RCW 18.170 is geared toward security guards, not the general populous. Security guards must show their security guard license upon request. Citizen's do not need to show their DL upon request to other citizens...
 
DEROS72

DEROS72

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thank you for clearing that up .I was getting a little confused on who has to show what to who.
 
B

Bear 45/70

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owensd wrote:
I don't understand why people are talking about showing your driver's license to random citizen's. RCW 18.170 is geared toward security guards, not the general populous. Security guards must show their security guard license upon request. Citizen's do not need to show their DL upon request to other citizens...
Click to expand...
Or your CPL.
 
D

David.Car

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Bear 45/70 wrote:
David.Car wrote:
I always knew I had to show it to a LEO, but I don't think I would show it to a citizen. Despite what that RCW says, I don't have to provide my drivers license to just anyone and I would prefer to keep it that way with all my information.

If someone ever did have a problem with me not showing them my security license I can always just say, I will contact the police and we can both wait around for one of their officers to come around whom I would be more than happy to prove my security status too.... I don't think there are too many people who would want to wait 30+ minutes for an officer to arrive at a non emergency scene.
Click to expand...
You would then have committed a crime and if found guilty of that gross misdemeanor you could be jailed and/or fined. The laws says squat about waiting for a cop and if you made we wait for a cop, I sure as hell am gonna screw with your time and money and file charges.
Click to expand...
I would love to see you even try to do that. File charges on what? I see no talk about gross misdemeanor for failure to provide proof of security license to a citizen. It doesn't have any reference to any disciplinary action in the RCW.

Site me an instance where I can have charges pressed against me and we will talk.

Since you like the info in the CPLRCW as your defense. It does state what violation and under what RCW it is punishable for not having your CPL whan a LEO asks for it. No such description for security licenses.

Also so you know, you wouldn't ever screw with my time or money, it would go straight to the security company, and oh you can bet your ass it would never ever goany furtherbecause you don't have the time or the money to waste to try and take a security officer to court because they didn't show you their license.
 
just_a_car

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David.Car wrote:
(SNIP)
Site me an instance where I can have charges pressed against me and we will talk.
(SNIP)
Click to expand...

(1) After June 30, 1992, any person who performs the functions and duties of a private security guard in this state without being licensed in accordance with this chapter, or any person presenting or attempting to use as his or her own the license of another, or any person who gives false or forged evidence of any kind to the director in obtaining a license, or any person who falsely impersonates any other licensee, or any person who attempts to use an expired or revoked license, or any person who violates any of the provisions of this chapter is guilty of a gross misdemeanor.
Click to expand...
-RCW 18.170.160 Emphasis mine.

Now, I might point out to you that the "Chapter" they speak of is RCW 18.170, therefore any RCW that starts with that is subject to this part of the law. Read on...

(1) The director shall issue a private security guard license card to each licensed private security guard and an armed private security guard license card to each armed private security guard.

(a) The license card may not be used as security clearance.

(b) A private security guard shall carry the license card whenever he or she is performing the duties of a private security guard and shall exhibit the card upon request.

(c) An armed private security guard shall carry the license card whenever he or she is performing the duties of an armed private security guard and shall exhibit the card upon request.
Click to expand...
-RCW 18.170.070 Emphasis mine.

Please note that nowhere does it state who is authorized to request the exhibition of the license card. If you do not exhibit the card upon the request and instead "wait 30+ minutes for an officer to arrive", then you'll only be waiting around for your own citation of a Gross Misdemeanor. Good luck on that.
 
Gene Beasley

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Bear 45/70 wrote:
If the law doesn't specify who, but just says upon request, then anyone can ask. The CPL law is specifywho you must show it to on request an citizens are included.
Click to expand...
Bear, I think this might be the source of confusion. One of those typing too fast and my fingers left my hands moments.

I suspect you meant, "If the law doesn't specify who, but just says upon request, then anyone can ask. The CPL law is specific about who you must show it to on request and citizens are not included"
 
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