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Thread: Small Confrontation in Ogden Saturday night

  1. #1
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    I think I experienced my most "uncomfortable" incident a couple nights ago.

    The reason I say "most uncomfortable" is simply because my entire family was present.

    Went to dinner with my wife, 6 yr old daughter and 2 yr old twin boys Saturday night.

    Decided to go to "Fat Cats" in Ogden. figured that there would be some fun for the kids after we ate.

    I should have figured that the place was not in the "best" part of Ogden- seeing as there were two of Ogden's "finest" inside the place the entire time.

    It was also posted at the front of the store "no weapons allowed".

    With all this said- I decided that it was better for me-- to cover my weapon with my shirt- then be told to put it in my car- or be told to leave (kids would be a little upset).

    Anyway, dinner and games were "un-eventful". A pretty good time--Not so much the place for 2 year olds, but the 6 year old had a blast!

    The excitement was during our walk to the parking lot. Approximately 9:20 PM.

    As we walked to our car (approx 300 ft away from the restaurant), I was holding the hand of one 2-yr old. My wife was walking beside me, holding the other 2 yr old's hand, and also my daughter's hand.

    A black gentleman began to walk towards us-- I did not know the reason-- nor did I care.

    He did not have the appearance of being any sort of transient, which concerned me even more.

    I kind of wish he DID look like one. Then, at least, I would have been able to assume the reason for the approach.

    He begins his conversation with "how are you doing this evening sir?". And then immediately says "you mind if I ask you a question?"

    Before this guy even got close to me, my Ruger P90 was back in full display.

    My wheels were spinning a mile a minute.

    1. My wife and kids are with me.

    2. I am holding the hand of one of my kids.

    3. The likeliness of a confrontation, in my opinion, was slightly higher, simply due to the fact that there were too many people I needed to protect.

    We are walking on an angle, towards our car, and this guy is walking across the open parking lot, directly towards us.

    I thought to myself, if this guy is going to provoke anything whatsoever-- it will NOT end in a good way.

    As he walked up, he said his name, and reached his hand out, as if he wanted me to shake hands.

    I immediately responded to him that "I had no need to shakeyour hand" and that he needed to step away from me and my family immediately.

    I said "there is no need for you to walk up to me out of the blue, making my family feel uncomfortable and there is no question whatsoever that you need to ask me".

    He then saw my weapon, and backed up a few steps. He then proceeded to say "so you gotta gun?" "Y'know, lots of people got guns".

    I said to him, "yeah, it's an unsafe world we live in, and you never know when you might have a fear for your life, or your family's life".

    He walked back a few more steps, and gave me some sort of glaring stare, and then turned and walked away.

    If you are going to walk up to somebody at nighttime, while they are with their family, and attempt to get within handshake range-- something is wrong with you!

    He could've easily asked his question from a comfortable distance.

    Thereis no doubt that this guy's agenda was related to money, or something--

    He DEFINITELY was not looking for directions.

    Somebody looking for directions, does not approach you, ask if they could ask you a question, and then put out their hand for you to shake it.

    I was not going to allow an invasion of my "secure space" nor was I going to give up my shooting hand.

    I'm glad that this guy simply backed off, and made his little sarcastic comments as he walked away.

    If he had done virtually anything else, I am pretty sure we would have ended up in a "yucky" situation-- for him.

    Hey Ogden PD, You don't need two officersINSIDE Fat Cats--

    Why don't one of you hang out in the stupid parking lot!!

    If my weapon had been sitting in the stupid car, it sure would not have been much use!



    Wife does not want togo to Fat Cats ever again-- me neither-- there was actually more excitement in the parking lot!

    With that said, that does not mean I'm heading over to the parking loteither!!

    I'm thankful I carry. And this experience is EXACTLY WHYI carry.

    .45



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    Excellent story. Of course, i am apologetic that you had to have the experience at all. It sounds obvious that without the presents of your sidearm the situation could have escalated to that "yucky" place. And YES - I follow your logic in thinking this man had no reasonable reason to approach you and your family in a dimly lit parking lot.

    Wow-must have been VERY uncomfortable with your family there. I suppose you always picture yourself only having to ever defend yourself. That scenario, you all were in would pretty much be "Worse Case" In my mind.

    I am thankful you were able to protect your family: with a show of force ONLY.

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    There was definitely something hinky going on and you handled it well. Too bad you didn't get into the car, drive back over to the resturant and find those cops. Give 'em a description of the guy.

    One time in a Wal-Mart parking lot, late at night, I parked away from other vehicles so there wasn't anything on either side. I come back out and some yahoo has parked a big truck almost on top of the little 318i BMW I had borrowed from my brother in law. The truck looks vacant, I barely have room to squeeze in and have to hit the truck with my door to do that. All of a sudden a guy pops up in the drivers seat and starts getting out. I backed up quick with the headlights on and it's some young Mexican cursing at me and threatening to kick my #$@. I decided he wasn't worth it and took off, there was no way he was going to catch me with a truck.

    Unknown to me, as it turns out, the cops were looking for a rapist that used that very same MO. He'd park almost on top of a BMW, Mercedes--some type of luxury car and then attack the woman when she couldn't get in too her car. I gave the cops my story and description but don't know if they ever caught the guy. You just never know what's reallygoing on and have to constantly keep your guard up.

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    Don't like your story much either, Loneviking. (it's a crazy world)



    Being alone is an entirely different situation.

    I had no intention at all, of investigating this guy.

    The one and only thing that was important to me was having all my kids strapped in the car, the wife and me loaded up, and a peaceful departure.

    It was truly an uncomfortable encounter.

    I knew that none of them were going to get hurt- but I feared most, their wittness to a nasty encounter.

    Glad it went the way it did!

    .45

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    .45calcarry wrote:
    Don't like your story much either, Loneviking. (it's a crazy world)



    Being alone is an entirely different situation.

    I had no intention at all, of investigating this guy.

    The one and only thing that was important to me was having all my kids strapped in the car, the wife and me loaded up, and a peaceful departure.

    It was truly an uncomfortable encounter.

    I knew that none of them were going to get hurt- but I feared most, their wittness to a nasty encounter.

    Glad it went the way it did!

    .45
    Agreed. No need to traumatize the kids.

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    i dont blame ya ogden is getting pretty bad lately one of my buddies lives on the south side of 36th where it starts becomeing a more family oriented neighborhood and he hear's shot's about every other nite and it never used to be that bad

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    Welcome to the forum choppys_corner.

    That was well handled .45calcarry. Handshakes are only for formal meetings, not for dim parking lots.

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    Yeah, never shake a shaddy strangers hand while you carry. Unless you can draw with your left hand. He likely wanted money. Well handled.

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    Good post you handled it well.

    Me alone I wouldn't worry much....but with the kids...


    Your story has me thinking...what can I learn from this?

    As I think now, if it ever happens to me, I might hold up my hand at the start of his approach, and warn him off and try and keep him at a distance.

    I am so glad you stayed armed.

    Scary Story.

    Tarzan

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    thx997303 wrote:
    Handshakes are only for formal meetings, not for dim parking lots.
    ...the origin of the hand shake was the extension of the right hand into the light of your lantern to show the person you are meeting that you don't have a knife in your hand. This then became a full shake with one person's hand grabbing the other person's wrist; to feel for a hidden knife.
    A little ironic, perhaps, that this individual may have been trying to use this sign of peace and assurance of good-will to perform harm.

    Myself, I never shake anyone's hand when I'm carrying. I don't carry things with my right hand when I'm armed. I can draw my Taurus Judge from my hip very quickly, but only if I have that hand free.

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    I think you handled that very well. Very odd situation.

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    33itmefs wrote:
    You know, my wife carries a Taser for just this situation. Maybe another option in your arsenal? I have ALWAYS felt there should be an intermediary from my physical strength and a firearm, and that works well for us, as well as my wife who only wants to "CC every once and awhile".
    Tasers are fine when a firearm is not allowed or the user is uncomfortable with using a gun. In this situation I can't imagine a better option than OC. That way the perp knows your ability/option to escalate to a red level. I feel that if you escalate beyond physical then you are in a forcible felony situation and should therefore be using deadly force (ie draw your firearm). Pulling a taser when equipped with both may simply prolong the encounter. Law enforcement has that option. I never intend to go that route. Perhaps a good idea for the wife this christmas.



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    He was up to no good for sure, seeing as he never did ask you his "question".

    Good ending. And THAT is what counts. I do have a question though-

    How close was the guy when he finally halted his advance?


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    41 Magnum wrote:
    He was up to no good for sure, seeing as he never did ask you his "question".

    +1

    Also, his failure to make explanation of innocence. And his comment about lots of people having guns.

    The only thing I can add is to give a firm, "That's close enough. Do not come closer" when he is still well beyond handshake range. 21' feet at least, preferrably 30'.

    You might consider some drills with your wife. For example, no matter what is happening or where, if one of you says, "Cross the street, now!" Nobody asks any questions, its just assumed the other has spotted potential danger and you both cross the street, no questions asked. Another example, "Step behind me." No questions asked, the recipient of the instruction just does it."

    I can imagine that a husband-wife team, coordinated, would be a pretty tough challenge. Especially if both were armed.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Good advice Citizen!

    Problem with my wife-- any confrontation=INSTANT FREAK!!

    This whole thing just sucked-- and the sole reason was our kids-- Took her about 20 minutes to come down from her nervous breakdown.

    Her and I need to talk about these situations a lot more-- as do probably most families.

    Kinda like practicing fora fire drill--

    BUT EACH FIRE IS DIFFERERNT!

    thanx for the response & feedback.



    .45

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    .45calcarry wrote:
    Good advice Citizen!
    You're welcome. I'm not particularly brilliant.

    There just has to be information from defense experts on husband-wife coordination already. If I thunk it up in 10 seconds, its probably already codified into twenty drills somewhere by somebody else.

    Maybe scour the internet for it, or for books that might contain info on it.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    .45calcarry wrote:
    Kinda like practicing fora fire drill--

    BUT EACH FIRE IS DIFFERERNT!
    Then again, the whole point of fire drills is to practice a sensible response to avoid the tendency to freeze in an emergency situation.

    Good idea.

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    Perhaps consider a division of the group. Get your wife and kids away from the situation as fast as you can. He wanted to talk to you, not them. Send the wife one way and have her get the kids in the car, fast. You take the long way to the car separating them from the situtation. This would allow them some buffer and you some ability to really get in this guys face and go on the offensive. Best defense is a good offense. Sure there might be more than one, but those chances are perhaps slim. Explain that what he just did might just get him ventilated if he doesnt behave himself.

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    33itmefs wrote:
    She likes it, I got her the x26c, its about $1,000(which should have gone to the FN 5.7 pistol I wanted ) but for her, its what she wants. As long as you know she wont use it on you, quite painful.
    The Taser C2 is cheaper and puts out a longer does of pain than the x26c. The longer time is so that you can drop the taser and run away. I insist that my wife carry a C2 whenever possible (since she won't carry a gun). The x26c is also an excellent product, but its design is more tailored to law enforcement.

    I think the OP handled the situation very well. Maybe the guy wanted to hand you a gospel tract, or was some type of missionary? Sometimes I will strike up a conversation with people and talk to them about the Christian faith, and give them a tract to read. Often times this leads with a handshake.

    It doesn't matter his intentions, if you felt he was a threat to your family you did the right thing. We can all learn a lesson from what you did.

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    33itmefs wrote:
    combatcarry wrote:
    33itmefs wrote:
    She likes it, I got her the x26c, its about $1,000(which should have gone to the FN 5.7 pistol I wanted ) but for her, its what she wants. As long as you know she wont use it on you, quite painful.
    The Taser C2 is cheaper and puts out a longer does of pain than the x26c. The longer time is so that you can drop the taser and run away. I insist that

    Dude, it puts out 30 seconds total...10 seconds a pull x3. Also, its upgradeable software via updates in the batteries that you buy. A bit different technology(not much) and we both liked the "gun" feel of it. But you are right, C2 are much cheaper and actually tailored to women.(with all those funky ass "holders" for them...leopard skin tazer?? honestly....)
    Thecycle is 30 seconds "per pull" on the C2. I'vetested it. One battery will do 50 cycles of 30 seconds each. Thats 25 minutes of stopping power. Pretty neat stuff.

    I gotta have the leapard skin. I mean... How can I possibly carry a self defense device without it matching the color of my underwear? :celebrate

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    .45calcarry wrote:
    ...."there is no need for you to walk up to me out of the blue, making my family feel uncomfortable and there is no question whatsoever that you need to ask me".....
    Just to add .02 more to the pot:

    I have always, sort of (loosely), operated upon the basis that: If a situation/something doesn't make sense, its more than likely not true/all that it seems.

    AGAIN: Just think you did the right thing in keeping the peace, while exploiting your "show of force".

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