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Thread: Government program to round-up enemies of the state.

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    I just read this article. It's very interesting. Just in case any of your think Alex Jones is completely stark raving mad, you should have a look at this....

    http://www.radaronline.com/from-the-...e_01-print.php

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    The comments are hilarious.

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    hilarious as in... funny, ha! ha! Or roll in the isle hilarious.

    This article seems pretty straight forward to me. Note the name of the program now being implemented... "Main Core."

    According to a senior government official who served with high-level security clearances in five administrations, "There exists a database of Americans, who, often for the slightest and most trivial reason, are considered unfriendly, and who, in a time of panic, might be incarcerated. The database can identify and locate perceived 'enemies of the state' almost instantaneously." He and other sources tell Radar that the database is sometimes referred to by the code name Main Core. One knowledgeable source claims that 8 million Americans are now listed in Main Core as potentially suspect. In the event of a national emergency, these people could be subject to everything from heightened surveillance and tracking to direct questioning and possibly even detention.

    Even the leftest somtimes get things completely straight time to time. This guy does write for some far left pubs, but his fact are straight as an arrow.

    What scares me is... what would happen when this program gets into the hands of a far-left government--like Hussien O's.

    ST


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    Takezo wrote:
    hilarious as in... funny, ha! ha! Or roll in the isle hilarious.
    I find it very difficult to believe that Dick Cheney would be part of anything that was not in our best interest
    I find it very difficult to believe that anyone associated with *this* administration would pay any attention to anyone else's best interest. Or very much attention to that "...piece of paper." Or attention to the laws of this, or any other, couuntry. Maybe this represents a too-cynical and -jaundiced view but it has been created over the altogether-too-many years that this gang has been in office.
    I find it hard to believe that Donald Rumsfeld would do anything not in his own interest. I find it hard to believe that your readers need this old, very old and substantially proven article. I find it hard to believe that anyone intelligent enough to even click on this site would be stupid and ignorant enough to need to learn this information .... it is time to stop trying to inform people of what they will not believe. Donald Rumsfeld and those near him, on top of him, beneath him, with few exceptions are human slime. Simple.
    hey people out there leave miley cyrus alone she is trying to be a great roll model for the younger kids so be quiet and LEAVE MILEY ALONE !



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    Woodrow Wilson and FDR did the same thing.

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    Takezo wrote:
    SNIP What scares me is... what would happen when this program gets into the hands of a far-left government--like Hussien O's.
    "The technological capacity that the intelligence community has given the government could enable it to impose total tyranny," [Senator Frank] Church pointed out in 1975.

    "We keep you alive to serve this ship. So, row well and live." --Quintus Arius, Consul of Rome, speaking to the galley slaves. Ben-hur 1959.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Now, ya gotta ask yourself. How many different "lists" do you reckon they have? It depends on which "version" of the state you support.

    The Commie members of our government will have their list.

    The Federalists members of our government will have their list.

    The femi-Nazi's will have theirs'

    and so on, and so on, and so on.

    Just pick up a phone book and everyone in it will be one or the others list.

    Next questio to ask, Do we really need a government in the first place?




    Note: The above statements are contigent on whether such lists exist at all.

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    Sounds like the "Blue List/Red List" hysteria of a few years ago.

    Nothing you can do about it. You're on a list. Guess you're doomed. Or was this an attempt to scare me into voting for McCain again?

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    In a sense, we are all on a "list." That is, our government has it out to enslave all of us, not just a select few. Since we are all on the list, the only thing to do now is resist.

    The idea that one might be on some special "watch list," to be the first thrown in prison is used to terrify people into submission: if you remain complacent and don't stand out, maybe you won't be the first to go.

    Come on people...! Complacency, and unwillingness to break the mold in demanding government to respect our rights, is the biggest problem America faces today, and all this "list" paranoia serves to exacerbate it. It is one of the very mechanisms by which control is achieved.

    Furthermore, if the government is as all-powerful, omniscient, and generally efficacious as these tin-hat theories require, then why does it fail so miserably at everything it sets out to do (like planning Iraq, or managing our economy)?

    The fact is, the system requires us to believe that it is capable of enforcing total control, because it doesn't have the ability to follow through. Government is like an addict when it comes to power. When was the last time it was able to say "no" to amassing more of it? I ask, if our government IS capable of enforcing total control, then why has it simply not done so?

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    marshaul wrote:
    In a sense, we are all on a "list." That is, our government has it out to enslave all of us, not just a select few. Since we are all on the list, the only thing to do now is resist.

    The idea that one might be on some special "watch list," to be the first thrown in prison is used to terrify people into submission: if you remain complacent and don't stand out, maybe you won't be the first to go.

    Come on people...! Complacency, and unwillingness to break the mold in demanding government to respect our rights, is the biggest problem America faces today, and all this "list" paranoia serves to exacerbate it. It is one of the very mechanisms by which control is achieved.

    Furthermore, if the government is as all-powerful, omniscient, and generally efficacious as these tin-hat theories require, then why does it fail so miserably at everything it sets out to do (like planning Iraq, or managing our economy)?

    The fact is, the system requires us to believe that it is capable of enforcing total control, because it doesn't have the ability to follow through. Government is like an addict when it comes to power. When was the last time it was able to say "no" to amassing more of it? I ask, if our government IS capable of enforcing total control, then why has it simply not done so?
    You know, Marshaul, I don't think you're stupid or uneducated--the two not being synonomous to me. And I even agree with you sometimes when you reign in your absolute libertarianism and speak more like a strict constructionist conservative, which I am. So let me ask you, in the spirit of discussion: as you are so opposed to our current government and it's leadership, what do you propose we do about it? Who should be elected that you are certain will make the changes you want? What, exactly, are those changes? And failing their election, what do we do about it?
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Sounds to me that the feds are worried about another 1776 occuring! So basicly if your a true patriot your on their special list.

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Sounds like the "Blue List/Red List" hysteria of a few years ago.

    Nothing you can do about it. You're on a list. Guess you're doomed. Or was this an attempt to scare me into voting for McCain again?
    If Obama doesn't scare you into voting for McCain, nothing will. As for me, I am bitterly clinging to my God and my guns and plenty scared enough to vote for McCain.

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    thorvaldr wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    Sounds like the "Blue List/Red List" hysteria of a few years ago.

    Nothing you can do about it. You're on a list. Guess you're doomed. Or was this an attempt to scare me into voting for McCain again?
    If Obama doesn't scare you into voting for McCain, nothing will. As for me, I am bitterly clinging to my God and my guns and plenty scared enough to vote for McCain.
    Well, then, nothing will. I see no reason to fear one war-mongering socialist any more than the other.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    thorvaldr wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    Sounds like the "Blue List/Red List" hysteria of a few years ago.

    Nothing you can do about it. You're on a list. Guess you're doomed. Or was this an attempt to scare me into voting for McCain again?
    If Obama doesn't scare you into voting for McCain, nothing will.* As for me, I am bitterly clinging to my God and my guns and plenty scared enough to vote for McCain.
    Well, then, nothing will. I see no reason to fear one war-mongering socialist any more than the other.
    This.

    Which brings me to Gunslinger's question: I am not prepared to vote for any of the current candidates. This includes the "libertarian" candidate, Bob Barr.

    So, then, what to do? The answer is complicated. Barring violent revolution, it will require social change: people will need to stop expecting a monarchial president to single-handedly run the country and "solve" all their imagined problems, and instead demand change from their local legislatures, etc. This will require people to begin to exercise, and demand, personal responsibility to a greater degree than we have presently.

    How can we work to make this change? One way is to spread the ideas of personal responsibility, and to remain vocally critical of the problems you recognize around you. I think Open Carry is a great way to do this. Not only can OC educate about the currant status of our human rights, it encourages people to take personal responsibility for their own safety, and to do so without requiring permission (as in the case of CC permitting). This encourages people to look to themselves and their neighbors for safety, instead of the government and its agents (e.g. police). It also encourages people to question their preconceptions, and occasionally the partisan nature of their politics.

    It's late, so I'm sure this could be more clear. Oh well.

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    If you don't vote for--at least--the so-called lesser of evils, you have no say whatsoever in effecting change. I don't disagree with what you say at all about personal responsibility/grassroots bottom up change, etc. But everyone needs to support that by voting for whomever best espouses their beliefs. I don't know anything about the Libertarian candidate, except that a vote for him helps Senator Obooba. McCain is a simple choice for me, Vietnam notwithstanding.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Gunslinger wrote:
    If you don't vote for--at least--the so-called lesser of evils, you have no say whatsoever in effecting change.
    First off, no one vote counts - ever. If someone chooses to not waste their time to vote, it makes no difference anyway. It's purely symbolic.

    More importantly, however, is the fact that simply voting (or supporting)"the lesser of two evils" does nothing to effect change and simply perpetuates the cycle we're in. If you haven't noticed, the same agenda gets pushed no matter which party is in power, they just take turns doing it. The democrats take away our financial freedoms and bring us closer and closer to socialism, while the republicans take away our personal freedoms and do everything in their power to ensure our future ruin in a third world war. No matter who is in power the freedom loss continues and the country moves in the same direction towards a people that are wholely dependant on their dictatorial government. You're so afraid of "one-worlders" but fail to realize that you support the cause by your undying support of corporate wars. In the end your kids will be slaves to the government who's feet you kissed in the name of having "balls" and "defending freedom," just like many current generations around the world are already slaves to it or their own governments.

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    Gunslinger wrote:
    If you don't vote for--at least--the so-called lesser of evils, you have no say whatsoever in effecting change.
    First off, no one vote counts - ever.* If someone chooses to not waste their time to vote, it makes no difference anyway.* It's purely symbolic.

    More importantly, however, is the fact that simply voting (or supporting)*"the lesser of two evils" does nothing to effect change and simply perpetuates the cycle we're in.* If you haven't noticed, the same agenda gets pushed no matter which party is in power, they just take turns doing it.* The democrats take away our financial freedoms and bring us closer and closer to socialism, while the republicans take away our personal freedoms and do everything in their power to ensure our future ruin in a third world war.* No matter who is in power the freedom loss continues and the country moves in the same direction towards a people that are wholely dependant on their dictatorial government.
    Read these words. For once, AWDstylez and I are on the same page.

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    I like you guys.

    One thing I think really helps folks break out of the Republican/Democrat, Conservative/Liberal false dichotomy is understanding the true spectrum of political thought is TWO-dimensional.

    http://www.nolanchart.com/faq/faq8.php
    http://www.nolanchart.com/survey.php

    People think they're conservative, and liberals are the enemy, or vice-versa. But the truth (for many of us here) may be that they're more of a libertarian, and statists are the enemy. Both the Republicans and Democrats are dominated right now by statists, the difference being one leans more fascist (conservative end of statism) and the other more socialist (liberal end of statism).

    Knowing yourself, and knowing your enemies and allies do not fall neatly across the two-party division, is vital in fighting for civil rights and liberty in general. I am one to talk; I was confused for most of my life, but I literally feel like I've had an "awakening" in the past year or two. I'm seeing clearly for the first time.

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    t3rmin wrote:
    I like you guys.

    One thing I think really helps folks break out of the Republican/Democrat, Conservative/Liberal false dichotomy is understanding the true spectrum of political thought is TWO-dimensional.

    http://www.nolanchart.com/faq/faq8.php
    http://www.nolanchart.com/survey.php

    People think they're conservative, and liberals are the enemy, or vice-versa. But the truth (for many of us here) may be that they're more of a libertarian, and statists are the enemy. Both the Republicans and Democrats are dominated right now by statists, the difference being one leans more fascist (conservative end of statism) and the other more socialist (liberal end of statism).

    Knowing yourself, and knowing your enemies and allies do not fall neatly across the two-party division, is vital in fighting for civil rights and liberty in general. I am one to talk; I was confused for most of my life, but I literally feel like I've had an "awakening" in the past year or two. I'm seeing clearly for the first time.
    Exactly! When people finally realize that everything suddenly makes sense.

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    Gunslinger wrote:
    If you don't vote for--at least--the so-called lesser of evils, you have no say whatsoever in effecting change.
    First off, no one vote counts - ever. If someone chooses to not waste their time to vote, it makes no difference anyway. It's purely symbolic.

    More importantly, however, is the fact that simply voting (or supporting)"the lesser of two evils" does nothing to effect change and simply perpetuates the cycle we're in. If you haven't noticed, the same agenda gets pushed no matter which party is in power, they just take turns doing it. The democrats take away our financial freedoms and bring us closer and closer to socialism, while the republicans take away our personal freedoms and do everything in their power to ensure our future ruin in a third world war. No matter who is in power the freedom loss continues and the country moves in the same direction towards a people that are wholely dependant on their dictatorial government. You're so afraid of "one-worlders" but fail to realize that you support the cause by your undying support of corporate wars. In the end your kids will be slaves to the government who's feet you kissed in the name of having "balls" and "defending freedom," just like many current generations around the world are already slaves to it or their own governments.
    So, exactly how are you opposing this? I've read lots of your attacks on we poor, uneducated (BA, MS and JD for my part) fools who fought for this corrupt and corrupting government because we are blind and/or deserving of pity. So tell me, how are you opposing this and doing your part to effect the change you are so desirous of? Maybe I'll change my "undying support of corporate wars," whatever the **** that is, if you elucidate me.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    ll you gotta do is ask awd which personal freedoms Rs have taken away.

    chirp chirp chirp.

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    johnnyb wrote:
    ll you gotta do is ask awd which personal freedoms Rs have taken away.

    chirp chirp chirp.
    Does domestic spying mean anything to you? Patriot Act ring a bell? Military Commissions Act, anyone? They even tell you how to live your life. Anti-gay marriage, ever heard that before?



    Gunslinger wrote:
    So, exactly how are you opposing this? I've read lots of your attacks on we poor, uneducated (BA, MS and JD for my part) fools who fought for this corrupt and corrupting government because we are blind and/or deserving of pity. So tell me, how are you opposing this and doing your part to effect the change you are so desirous of? Maybe I'll change my "undying support of corporate wars," whatever the @#$% that is, if you elucidate me.
    [/quote]



    Uneducated and uninformed are two ever different things, FYI.

    I'm doing absolutely nothing other than whining about it on the internet and in person. This country ceased to be a functioning democracy a long time ago and nothing I do is going to change it. Sure, its a defeatist attitude, but I also pride myself on being realistic and knowing when to not waste my time. I'll just go on living my life like a typical selfish American, but at least one that understands what's going on, and hope against hope that nothing drastic happens in my lifetime. "Yea, but the children," everyone says... I don't plan on having any. I really wish we had a kissy face emoticon here.

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    johnnyb wrote:
    ll you gotta do is ask awd which personal freedoms Rs have taken away.

    chirp chirp chirp.
    Does domestic spying mean anything to you? Patriot Act ring a bell? Military Commissions Act, anyone? They even tell you how to live your life. Anti-gay marriage, ever heard that before?
    domestic spying has been going on for a very long time and a democrat was in the whitehouse when the FBI was founded and j edgar hoover was director.

    i don't agree with the patriot act or the mca but a lot of the critism is rooted in hysteria rather than fact.

    *** marriage is not a right or a freedom, and **** can get married w/o the govt's approval. as i've said many times govt should have nothing to do with marriage

    so you have a couple times. we could all sit here and make pages of @#$% the dems and obama want to take away. its obvious mclame is a better choice, and unfortunate that we only have these two clowns

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    johnnyb wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    johnnyb wrote:
    ll you gotta do is ask awd which personal freedoms Rs have taken away.

    chirp chirp chirp.
    Does domestic spying mean anything to you? Patriot Act ring a bell? Military Commissions Act, anyone? They even tell you how to live your life. Anti-gay marriage, ever heard that before?
    domestic spying has been going on for a very long time and a democrat was in the whitehouse when the FBI was founded and j edgar hoover was director.

    i don't agree with the patriot act or the mca but a lot of the critism is rooted in hysteria rather than fact.

    *** marriage is not a right or a freedom, and **** can get married w/o the govt's approval. as i've said many times govt should have nothing to do with marriage

    so you have a couple times. we could all sit here and make pages of @#$% the dems and obama want to take away. its obvious mclame is a better choice, and unfortunate that we only have these two clowns


    So because domestic spying has been going on forever it's perfectly okay.

    You think the two biggest blows to our personal freedoms in the last 100 years are purely hysteria.

    You think gays should be denied the supposedly innate humanright to the pursuit of happiness simply because of their sexual preference.

    Got it.



    It's proven fact that the "conservatives" want to tell everyone how to live their lives and provide everyone's morals for them. The current statist regime also enjoys taking away civil rights. Yet you swear by the Republican party because you're one of the sheeple caught up in the "liberal vs conservative" farse.

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    Gunslinger wrote:
    SNIP (BA, MS and JD for my part)
    (emphasis added)

    You know, some of you guys are missing some real opportunities here by arguing with Gunslinger.

    You should be asking him questions to gain insight from his experience. Maybe he doesn't have any worth mentioning on this subject. But you wouldn't find out because you'rearguing instead of looking for insights and wisdom.

    Why do I bring this up?

    You see those two bold, red letters in the quote above?

    "J.D." As in Juris Doctor.As in, he holds a doctorate degree in law.

    You see that fighter jet in his avatar? Fighter pilots aren't idiots. And that particular fighter planeis old enough to mean he's been around almost as long as Bear 45/70.

    Why don't you fellas try finding out why he holds his opinions. We might all learn something.

    Fair Warning:Anybody who argues with what I justwrote will show himself tobe too dumb to learn to anybody who reads this.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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