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Thread: Disparity of Force

  1. #1
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    Great story and good advice on why you should be armed, even when the threat has no weapon, and what to do in that situation.

    This is my first post. I hope I did it right and did not break any rules. Thanks for places like this to keep people free and armed as our forefathers intended.

    Article:

    http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sig...rity-of-force/

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    This incident has been reported on this forum before, but the article is well written and provides sound advice. Welcome to OCDO and we hope to hear more from you!
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

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    ODA 226 wrote:
    This incident has been reported on this forum before, but the article is well written and provides sound advice. Welcome to OCDO and we hope to hear more from you!
    + 1



    Tarzan

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    Sorry about that.

    Guess next time before posting I had better do a search.

    Glad to hear the article was posted before though.

    Thanks for the welcome.

  5. #5
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    ldabe wrote:
    Sorry about that.

    Guess next time before posting I had better do a search.

    Glad to hear the article was posted before though.

    Thanks for the welcome.
    The story was posted....but the article with its interpretation on the disparity of force issue was not.

    ODA was just letting you know that we were aware of the incident, AND that the article was good, along with a welcome.



    I was giving a +1 to all of the above, especially the welcome.



    Tarzan

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO and thank you for the posting. I enjoyed reading the additional force related analysis.

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    I'm glad this topic came up, as I have been interested in it lately. I notice the author of the article mentions the definitions of Disparity of Force, but has no cites for this.

    In the past few weeks, I've been googling like mad trying to find legal definitions in either court cases or constitutional/state law and have found nothing!

    Can anyone link me to the definition of "Disparity of Force" in a legal document?

    Much Thanks!

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    RichB 99GTP wrote:
    I'm glad this topic came up, as I have been interested in it lately. I notice the author of the article mentions the definitions of Disparity of Force, but has no cites for this.

    In the past few weeks, I've been googling like mad trying to find legal definitions in either court cases or constitutional/state law and have found nothing!

    Can anyone link me to the definition of "Disparity of Force" in a legal document?

    Much Thanks!

    Dispararity of Force is the umbrella term for a number circumstances in self-defense situations. People have been stabbing, clubbing, and shooting assailants for centuries.

    Meaning, I've never heard of any statutes that list it. And court opinions are going to reference aspecificcircumstance, I'm thinking.

    The body of law contained in court opinions is sometimes referred to as common law. And that stuff goes back maybe almost a thousand years in English law, further if you count the un-recorded traditions that courts used in making their decisions way, way back in time. What I'm trying to say here is that courts probably wouldn't have been making a general discussion and list of what constitutes disparity of force. If anything they would have been saying something like, "Man against woman. Woman isjustified in using lethal force because its been long considered a man is stronger. Conviction of woman overturned." And you understand, it would be the appeals courts. The trial court records would just be "guilty" or "not guilty." Although you may find something by google where a newspaper or academicpaper references a trial or trials wherespecific circumstances that amounted to disparity of force were found to constitute justification for lethal force and the defender was either not indicted or found not guilty.

    If you want to know the things that aregenerally considered to fit disparity of force, I recommend google forarmed self-defense websites. There are a few. Thenbookson armed self-defense.

    Oh, in his video, Judicious Use of Deadly Force, Massad Ayoob mentions a very thick book in law school libraries about homicide. One particular book, the title of which I cannot recall. I believe the title included the word homicide. If there was a law school nearby, you could call or check their library for such a book. Maybe the county law library is publicly accessible, too.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. (Because that is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--for each other and everybody else--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.)

    Equality and consent of the governed: We're all equal. How can another legitimately govern me without my express consent?

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    You could google books on justifiable homicide, too.

    I just now googled "books on homicide". There were tons. At least one site had a separate link for books that mentioned justifiable homicide.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. (Because that is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--for each other and everybody else--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.)

    Equality and consent of the governed: We're all equal. How can another legitimately govern me without my express consent?

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    The Evans gang has been terrorizing the Twin Cities area for a long time... #@$%-ing scumbags...

    this guy was almost beat to death infront of a very large family amusment park... with out a doubt; people watching the beating, i have very little doubt there were "men"that put their hands over their eyes and kept walking to their cars... not quite as dispicable as a group of thugs beating a man for defending his daughters honor, but not the type of things i was taught by my father... if someone is in trouble, you help them... this guy was in trouble.

    I'm not saying that one person confronting 5 thugs having a boot party is a great idea, but i know, i couldnt live with myself not doing anything...

    the disparity of force dissapears when an angry mob of moms and dads get in the face of the thugs...

    Valley Fair is a compliant posted no guns location... this rule is NOT observed by the many many thugs that prowl the park in the summer months...

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    The Fiercest Beard wrote:
    Valley Fair is a compliant posted no guns location... this rule is NOT observed by the many many thugs that prowl the park in the summer months...
    You're right about that. I used to work for Cedar Fair (the company that owns Valley Fair) at one of their other parks.. Knott's Berry Farm in Buena Park, CA. I worked for them on and off as a carpenter/"entertainment technician" and as Halloween talent from 2001 to 2006. The company has a very strict no weapons policy, even security isn't allowed to carry more than pepper spray (and they need to be certified by park management to carry that). At the park where I worked, they even use metal detectors at the gate during times when they know the park will be busy (for example, every night of Halloween Haunt), but that didn't stop someone from getting into the park with a gun and pointing it at one of my coworkers the last year I worked there. The fact that we had 200+ uniformed security guards and 500+ uniformed and on-duty LEOs (Buena Park Police officers and Orange County Sheriff's deputies) on patrol inside the park also didn't stop him.

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    Ok, lets look at this sceanrio. lets say I am armed and I witness this act. I step in to try and stop the cowardly thugs before they get to beating on this man like a bunch of wild savages (which they obviously are)becuase hegot in between their urge to sexually assualt his daughter (A.K.A. MuH Dik)

    After the first attack is made, Do I go in to try and stop this without unholstering my weapon? Do A draw and get charged with brandishing? Do I step in and get attacked and possibly disabled or knocked unconcious and not be able to help and then lose my weapon to the thugs so they can kill both of us??

    The reason I ask is becuase of an incident in Racine WI many years ago. A guy went nuts and was hacking people apart with a sword in the street. A motorist on his way to go duck hunting came across this scene, tried to stop the sword swinger by yelling at him. He went to the trunk of his car, uncased and loaded his 12GA shotgun and killed the nutjob after the guy killed another person.

    What happened to the guy who shot?? Arrested, Charged, Found Guilty, and sits in jail for stopping a murdered that had already killed three people and was trying to kill more.

    the general opinion was that he did wrong becuase he could have kept on driving instead of being involved and trying to save other lives!

    How sick is that!









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    Nutczak wrote:
    The reason I ask is becuase of an incident in Racine WI many years ago. A guy went nuts and was hacking people apart with a sword in the street. A motorist on his way to go duck hunting came across this scene, tried to stop the sword swinger by yelling at him. He went to the trunk of his car, uncased and loaded his 12GA shotgun and killed the nutjob after the guy killed another person.

    What happened to the guy who shot?? Arrested, Charged, Found Guilty, and sits in jail for stopping a murdered that had already killed three people and was trying to kill more.

    the general opinion was that he did wrong becuase he could have kept on driving instead of being involved and trying to save other lives!

    How sick is that!
    What!! I am new to WI, and tried to find info on it but couldn't. Can you please post a link or where I can find info on it? Is the guy still in prison? Was this a jury trial, I sure hope not!

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    I believe the best example of Disparity of Force was when " General Chesty Puller" and the 1st Marines were in Korea. They told "Chesty" General you're surrounded. His reply was Sorrounded hell I've got the bastards right where I want em. We can shoot 360 degrees and kill commies, or words to that affect.
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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