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Thread: OC in a school

  1. #1
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Hey gang,

    I did a search and came up empty handed. There is a discussion going on right now at MGO Forums about the legallity of OC in a school. The OP is questioning it due to the Voting for the upcoming elections will be at a school. Weve had some input from the local Law Guru over there, and Venator, but Im not finding where it says the OC is prohibited in schools. Another poster found the act pertaining to schools, but it only says the Concealed carry in schools is prohibited. What are your thoughts?



    http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=28192




    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


    The statements made in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of OCDO or its members.

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    Tucker6900 wrote:
    Hey gang,

    I did a search and came up empty handed. There is a discussion going on right now at MGO Forums about the legallity of OC in a school. The OP is questioning it due to the Voting for the upcoming elections will be at a school. Weve had some input from the local Law Guru over there, and Venator, but Im not finding where it says the OC is prohibited in schools. Another poster found the act pertaining to schools, but it only says the Concealed carry in schools is prohibited. What are your thoughts?



    http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=28192



    It was MY understanding that places off limits to CC were wide open to OC...like a bank. IF i am mistaken someone please correct me. I hate to have my wife posting on here looking for donations to get my butt out of serious trouble lol

  3. #3
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Unless your gun was manufactured in your own state, from parts made in your state, made from metal forged in your state from ore mined in your state, then it has in some form crossed state lines and has affected interstate or foreign commerce. This being the case with almost all guns, you can't OC them in a school zone.

    Title 18 U.S. Code § 922

    (2) (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
    (iii) that is—
    (I) not loaded; and
    (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

  4. #4
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    warlockmatized wrote:
    It was MY understanding that places off limits to CC were wide open to OC...like a bank. IF i am mistaken someone please correct me. I hate to have my wife posting on here looking for donations to get my butt out of serious trouble lol
    You can CC in a bank.

    From the MSP website:

    Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:




    1. Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian

    2. Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.

    3. Sports arena or stadium

    4. A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises

    5. Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons

    6. An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more

    7. A hospital

    8. A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university

    9. ACasino

    No mention of financial institutions.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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    Bronson wrote:
    warlockmatized wrote:
    It was MY understanding that places off limits to CC were wide open to OC...like a bank. IF i am mistaken someone please correct me. I hate to have my wife posting on here looking for donations to get my butt out of serious trouble lol
    You can CC in a bank.

    From the MSP website:

    Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:



    1. Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian

    2. Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.

    3. Sports arena or stadium

    4. A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises

    5. Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons

    6. An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more

    7. A hospital

    8. A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university

    9. ACasino
    No mention of financial institutions.

    Bronson
    Thank you much. I knew it had it wrong.

  6. #6
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Bronson wrote:
    warlockmatized wrote:
    It was MY understanding that places off limits to CC were wide open to OC...like a bank. IF i am mistaken someone please correct me. I hate to have my wife posting on here looking for donations to get my butt out of serious trouble lol
    You can CC in a bank.

    From the MSP website:

    Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:




    1. Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian


    2. Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.


    3. Sports arena or stadium


    4. A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises


    5. Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons


    6. An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more


    7. A hospital


    8. A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university


    9. ACasino
    No mention of financial institutions.

    Bronson
    Um... guys....that stuff posted on the MSP website is NOT the law.

    It is very important to differentiate between the two and to know the difference.

    Please use this link when looking for thelegality of issues and for quoting as law.
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(h5q...e=chapterindex

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    Bronson wrote:
    warlockmatized wrote:
    It was MY understanding that places off limits to CC were wide open to OC...like a bank. IF i am mistaken someone please correct me. I hate to have my wife posting on here looking for donations to get my butt out of serious trouble lol
    You can CC in a bank.

    From the MSP website:

    Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:




    1. Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian


    2. Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.


    3. Sports arena or stadium


    4. A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises


    5. Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons


    6. An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more


    7. A hospital


    8. A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university


    9. ACasino
    No mention of financial institutions.

    Bronson
    Bronson, this list from the MSP website is simply part of 28.425o which prohibits concealed pistols in those places listed.750.234d which prohibits weapons (pistols) in places listed (a)-->(h), Subsection (2) (c) if you have a CPL, you can carry OC in most, if not all those places listed in 28.425o.

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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    Bronson wrote:
    warlockmatized wrote:
    It was MY understanding that places off limits to CC were wide open to OC...like a bank. IF i am mistaken someone please correct me. I hate to have my wife posting on here looking for donations to get my butt out of serious trouble lol
    You can CC in a bank.

    From the MSP website:

    Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:



    1. Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian

    2. Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.

    3. Sports arena or stadium

    4. A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises

    5. Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons

    6. An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more

    7. A hospital

    8. A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university

    9. ACasino
    No mention of financial institutions.

    Bronson
    Bronson, this list from the MSP website is simply part of 28.425o which prohibits concealed pistols in those places listed.750.234d which prohibits weapons (pistols) in places listed (a)-->(h), Subsection (2) (c) if you have a CPL, you can carry OC in most, if not all those places listed in 28.425o.
    UGH! The back and forth confusing the hell out of me LoL

    We need the definitive answer and possibly have it added to the Michigan Open Carry Info thread

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    warlockmatized wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    Bronson wrote:
    warlockmatized wrote:
    It was MY understanding that places off limits to CC were wide open to OC...like a bank. IF i am mistaken someone please correct me. I hate to have my wife posting on here looking for donations to get my butt out of serious trouble lol
    You can CC in a bank.

    From the MSP website:

    Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:



    1. Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian


    2. Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.


    3. Sports arena or stadium


    4. A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises


    5. Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons


    6. An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more


    7. A hospital


    8. A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university


    9. ACasino
    No mention of financial institutions.

    Bronson
    Bronson, this list from the MSP website is simply part of 28.425o which prohibits concealed pistols in those places listed.750.234d which prohibits weapons (pistols) in places listed (a)-->(h), Subsection (2) (c) if you have a CPL, you can carry OC in most, if not all those places listed in 28.425o.
    UGH! The back and forth confusing the hell out of me LoL

    We need the definitive answer and possibly have it added to the Michigan Open Carry Info thread
    It's already in there :celebrate

    “Your analysis is correct. Non-CPL pistol free zones do not apply to CPL holders. The CPL pistol free zones only apply to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol. Therefore, a CPL holder may openly carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones.”

    Sincerely, Sgt. Thomas Deasy, [/b]Michigan[/b] [/b]State[/b] Police Executive Resource Section, (517) 336-6441

    “…My office has contacted the Michigan State Police legislative liaison and has received some answers to share with you. According to the liaison, it is legal to openly carry a firearm in a "Pistol Free Zone" if you are a licensed CPL holder. I was advised that your information was correct that MCL 28.425o and MCL 750-234d permit this activity. I was informed that there was no other additional relevant laws regarding this matter…” Michael A Prusi, State Senator 38th District"



  10. #10
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Still confuses the hell out of me.

    I guess I just find it hard to believe that you can openly carry in all of the CC pistol free zones if you have a CPL.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

  11. #11
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Just checked 28.425o at the link provided by dougwg http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(h5q...e=chapterindexand there is no mention of a financial instiution on the CC pistol free zone list. So I maintain that you can CC in a bank. Am I completely messed up on this?

    I guess my confusion stems from the two separate lists of "gun free zones" I keep running across. It's6 a.m. now and I don't have the gumption to find them but they seem to contradict each other.

    The one states that the zones don't apply if you are legally CCing, but then the CC rules have their own list, some of which are the same.

    Again, confusing as hell to me.

    Sorry for being sodense.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

  12. #12
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Bronson wrote:
    snip..
    Again, confusing as hell to me.

    Bronson
    I will try to make it clear.

    If you DO NOT have a CPL:
    You may not legally carry any weapon into a bank, concealed or open. (I'm not talking about pocketknives so don't go there)

    If you DO have a CPL:
    You may legally carry a sidearm in a holster cocked, locked and ready to rock concealed or open.

    Disclaimer: IANAL, I do not suggest OC'ing in a bank just yet, we need a lot more support before that becomes acceptable and that takes time, maybe even years.


  13. #13
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Decoligny wrote:


    Unless your gun was manufactured in your own state, from parts made in your state, made from metal forged in your state from ore mined in your state, then it has in some form crossed state lines and has affected interstate or foreign commerce. This being the case with almost all guns, you can't OC them in a school zone.
    Please tell me your joking.


    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


    The statements made in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of OCDO or its members.

  14. #14
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Tucker6900 wrote:
    Hey gang,

    I did a search and came up empty handed. There is a discussion going on right now at MGO Forums about the legallity of OC in a school. The OP is questioning it due to the Voting for the upcoming elections will be at a school. Weve had some input from the local Law Guru over there, and Venator, but Im not finding where it says the OC is prohibited in schools. Another poster found the act pertaining to schools, but it only says the Concealed carry in schools is prohibited. What are your thoughts?



    http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=28192



    As per Michigan Attorney General's Opinion 7113, OC in a school is NOT legal unless you also hold a valid MI CPL.

    Just FYI, most people I know, would advise against it, anyway. I believe this includes Jim Simmons, attorney at law.

    Big Gay Al
    Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols
    Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Bronson wrote:
    Just checked 28.425o at the link provided by dougwg http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(h5qa2l45qmtyvoi13eql5r55))/mileg.aspx?page=chapterindexand there is no mention of a financial instiution on the CC pistol free zone list. So I maintain that you can CC in a bank. Am I completely messed up on this?

    I guess my confusion stems from the two separate lists of "gun free zones" I keep running across. It's6 a.m. now and I don't have the gumption to find them but they seem to contradict each other.

    The one states that the zones don't apply if you are legally CCing, but then the CC rules have their own list, some of which are the same.

    Again, confusing as hell to me.

    Sorry for being sodense.

    Bronson
    Actually, if you read the laws carefully, you'll see it reads that the OC gun free zones don't apply if you have a Concealed permit, not if you are carrying concealed.
    Big Gay Al
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  16. #16
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Tucker6900 wrote:
    Decoligny wrote:


    Unless your gun was manufactured in your own state, from parts made in your state, made from metal forged in your state from ore mined in your state, then it has in some form crossed state lines and has affected interstate or foreign commerce. This being the case with almost all guns, you can't OC them in a school zone.
    Please tell me your joking.

    I think the following exception, which was in his post, was not taken into consideration.
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;


    Big Gay Al
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  17. #17
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    warlockmatized wrote:
    Tucker6900 wrote:
    Hey gang,

    I did a search and came up empty handed. There is a discussion going on right now at MGO Forums about the legallity of OC in a school. The OP is questioning it due to the Voting for the upcoming elections will be at a school. Weve had some input from the local Law Guru over there, and Venator, but Im not finding where it says the OC is prohibited in schools. Another poster found the act pertaining to schools, but it only says the Concealed carry in schools is prohibited. What are your thoughts?



    http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=28192



    It was MY understanding that places off limits to CC were wide open to OC...like a bank. IF i am mistaken someone please correct me. I hate to have my wife posting on here looking for donations to get my butt out of serious trouble lol
    And actually, OC in a bank is illegal UNLESS you have a CPL. It's one of the OC off limits areas.
    Big Gay Al
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    Legal or not, I'm not about to OC at my childs High School. Really don't feel like being the top story on the 11 o'clock news! :shock:

  19. #19
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Big Gay Al wrote:
    And actually, OC in a bank is illegal UNLESS you have a CPL. It's one of the OC off limits areas.
    That's what I mean by confusing as hell. There are OC off limit areas and CC off limits areas but you can OC in the CC off limits areas andyou can OC orCC inthe OC off limits areas with a valid CPL :shock::what:

    Is that even close to correct? I don't know. I think I'm going to give up and go to bed.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

  20. #20
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Bronson wrote:
    Big Gay Al wrote:
    And actually, OC in a bank is illegal UNLESS you have a CPL. It's one of the OC off limits areas.
    That's what I mean by confusing as hell. There are OC off limit areas and CC off limits areas but you can OC in the CC off limits areas andyou can OC orCC inthe OC off limits areas with a valid CPL :shock::what:

    Is that even close to correct? I don't know. I think I'm going to give up and go to bed.

    Bronson
    That is somewhat confusing. What you have to do is look at both lists, and let that be your guide. For instance, banks are ONLY on the OC list. They are not even mentioned on the CC list at all. Otherwise, I do believe that both lists are nearly identical, which is where the idea comes from that if you can't CC, you can OC, as long as you have a CPL, which, when you think about it, is really weird.
    Big Gay Al
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  21. #21
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    b_twill wrote:
    Legal or not, I'm not about to OC at my childs High School. Really don't feel like being the top story on the 11 o'clock news! :shock:
    I'm with you on this one. Whenever I go to my sons' school, my weapon is covered, unless I'm going inside, then it's locked up in the glove box. The adults might not notice, but I can guarantee, the children will. And then it's a question, how many will panic and run away screaming, and how many will come and ask to see/handle your firearm.

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    Bronson wrote:
    SNIP
    That's what I mean by confusing as hell. There are OC off limit areas and CC off limits areas but you can OC in the CC off limits areas andyou can OC orCC inthe OC off limits areas with a valid CPL :shock::what:

    Is that even close to correct? I don't know. I think I'm going to give up and go to bed.

    Bronson
    Think of this list as places you may OC with a CPL:

    750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.



    Sec. 234d.

    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.

    (c) A court.

    (d) A theatre.

    (e) A sports arena.

    (f) A day care center.

    (g) A hospital.

    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

    Think of this list as places you may not CCwith a CPL:

    28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation.



    Sec. 5o.

    (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, “school” and “school property” mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

    (b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.

    (c) A sports arena or stadium.

    (d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision shall not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that “This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons”. The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but shall not be required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.

    (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.

    (f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

    (g) A hospital.

    (h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.

    (2) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative code promulgated pursuant to the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, the Initiated Law of 1996, MCL 432.201 to 432.226.

    (3) As used in subsection (1), “premises” does not include parking areas of the places identified under subsection (1).

    Hope this helps.

  23. #23
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Big Gay Al wrote:
    b_twill wrote:
    Legal or not, I'm not about to OC at my childs High School. Really don't feel like being the top story on the 11 o'clock news! :shock:
    I'm with you on this one. Whenever I go to my sons' school, my weapon is covered, unless I'm going inside, then it's locked up in the glove box. The adults might not notice, but I can guarantee, the children will. And then it's a question, how many will panic and run away screaming, and how many will come and ask to see/handle your firearm.
    When I was OCing in the Capital building, it was school days and the place was crawling with kids. None asked to handle my gun, none went screaming, the only one that called security was a staff member that thought OC was illegal. So I wouldn't spread the myth of kids screaming in terror at the site of a gun in a holster, I haven't ever heard of this happening.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Jul 2008
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    Post imported post

    SpringerXDacp wrote:


    Think of this list as places you may OC with a CPL:



    Think of this list as places you may not CCwith a CPL:


    Hope this helps.
    But neither of those state that you cannot OC in a school with, or without for that matter, a CPL. Im not trying to push the issue too much, and I dont plan oncarrying in any school, that would be dumb and probably not worth it in the least bit, but its starting to look to me like something that is unwritten and therefore would not be considered by law to be "Illegal".
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


    The statements made in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of OCDO or its members.

  25. #25
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    Venator wrote:
    Big Gay Al wrote:
    b_twill wrote:
    Legal or not, I'm not about to OC at my childs High School. Really don't feel like being the top story on the 11 o'clock news! :shock:
    I'm with you on this one. Whenever I go to my sons' school, my weapon is covered, unless I'm going inside, then it's locked up in the glove box. The adults might not notice, but I can guarantee, the children will. And then it's a question, how many will panic and run away screaming, and how many will come and ask to see/handle your firearm.
    When I was OCing in the Capital building, it was school days and the place was crawling with kids. None asked to handle my gun, none went screaming, the only one that called security was a staff member that thought OC was illegal. So I wouldn't spread the myth of kids screaming in terror at the site of a gun in a holster, I haven't ever heard of this happening.
    Yeah, you're right. I was just, I don't know what I was thinking.

    Big Gay Al
    Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols
    Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal FNX-45 .45ACP 16 rounds of hurt.

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