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OC in a school

Tucker6900

Tucker6900

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Hey gang,

I did a search and came up empty handed. There is a discussion going on right now at MGO Forums about the legallity of OC in a school. The OP is questioning it due to the Voting for the upcoming elections will be at a school. Weve had some input from the local Law Guru over there, and Venator, but Im not finding where it says the OC is prohibited in schools. Another poster found the act pertaining to schools, but it only says the Concealed carry in schools is prohibited. What are your thoughts?



http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=28192
 
W

warlockmatized

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Tucker6900 wrote:
Hey gang,

I did a search and came up empty handed. There is a discussion going on right now at MGO Forums about the legallity of OC in a school. The OP is questioning it due to the Voting for the upcoming elections will be at a school. Weve had some input from the local Law Guru over there, and Venator, but Im not finding where it says the OC is prohibited in schools. Another poster found the act pertaining to schools, but it only says the Concealed carry in schools is prohibited. What are your thoughts?



http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=28192
Click to expand...
It was MY understanding that places off limits to CC were wide open to OC...like a bank. IF i am mistaken someone please correct me. I hate to have my wife posting on here looking for donations to get my butt out of serious trouble lol
 
Decoligny

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[align=left]Unless your gun was manufactured in your own state, from parts made in your state, made from metal forged in your state from ore mined in your state, then it has in some form crossed state lines and has affected interstate or foreign commerce. This being the case with almost all guns, you can't OC them in a school zone.[/align]
[align=left]Title 18 U.S. Code § 922[/align]
[align=left](2) (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone. [/align]
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is—
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
 
Bronson

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warlockmatized wrote:
It was MY understanding that places off limits to CC were wide open to OC...like a bank. IF i am mistaken someone please correct me. I hate to have my wife posting on here looking for donations to get my butt out of serious trouble lol
Click to expand...
You can CC in a bank.

From the MSP website:

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:[/font]




  1. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian
    [/font]

  2. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.
    [/font]

  3. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Sports arena or stadium
    [/font]

  4. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises
    [/font]

  5. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons
    [/font]

  6. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more
    [/font]

  7. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A hospital
    [/font]

  8. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university
    [/font]

  9. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]ACasino
    [/font]
No mention of financial institutions.

Bronson
 
W

warlockmatized

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Bronson wrote:
warlockmatized wrote:
It was MY understanding that places off limits to CC were wide open to OC...like a bank. IF i am mistaken someone please correct me. I hate to have my wife posting on here looking for donations to get my butt out of serious trouble lol
Click to expand...
You can CC in a bank.

From the MSP website:

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:[/font]



  1. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian
    [/font]

  2. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.
    [/font]

  3. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Sports arena or stadium
    [/font]

  4. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises
    [/font]

  5. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons
    [/font]

  6. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more
    [/font]

  7. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A hospital
    [/font]

  8. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university
    [/font]

  9. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]ACasino
    [/font]
No mention of financial institutions.

Bronson
Click to expand...
Thank you much. I knew it had it wrong.
 
dougwg

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Bronson wrote:
warlockmatized wrote:
It was MY understanding that places off limits to CC were wide open to OC...like a bank. IF i am mistaken someone please correct me. I hate to have my wife posting on here looking for donations to get my butt out of serious trouble lol
Click to expand...
You can CC in a bank.

From the MSP website:

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:[/font]




  1. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian
    [/font]

  2. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.
    [/font]

  3. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Sports arena or stadium
    [/font]

  4. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises
    [/font]

  5. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons
    [/font]

  6. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more
    [/font]

  7. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A hospital
    [/font]

  8. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university
    [/font]

  9. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]ACasino
    [/font]
No mention of financial institutions.

Bronson
Click to expand...

Um... guys....that stuff posted on the MSP website is NOT the law.

It is very important to differentiate between the two and to know the difference.

Please use this link when looking for thelegality of issues and for quoting as law.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(h5qa2l45qmtyvoi13eql5r55))/mileg.aspx?page=chapterindex
 
SpringerXDacp

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Bronson wrote:
warlockmatized wrote:
It was MY understanding that places off limits to CC were wide open to OC...like a bank. IF i am mistaken someone please correct me. I hate to have my wife posting on here looking for donations to get my butt out of serious trouble lol
Click to expand...
You can CC in a bank.

From the MSP website:

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:[/font]




  1. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian
    [/font]

  2. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.
    [/font]

  3. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Sports arena or stadium
    [/font]

  4. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises
    [/font]

  5. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons
    [/font]

  6. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more
    [/font]

  7. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A hospital
    [/font]

  8. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university
    [/font]

  9. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]ACasino
    [/font]
No mention of financial institutions.

Bronson
Click to expand...
Bronson, this list from the MSP website is simply part of 28.425o which prohibits concealed pistols in those places listed.750.234d which prohibits weapons (pistols) in places listed (a)-->(h), Subsection (2) (c) if you have a CPL, you can carry OC in most, if not all those places listed in 28.425o.
 
W

warlockmatized

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Joined
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Messages
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Silverwood, Michigan
imported post

SpringerXDacp wrote:
Bronson wrote:
warlockmatized wrote:
It was MY understanding that places off limits to CC were wide open to OC...like a bank. IF i am mistaken someone please correct me. I hate to have my wife posting on here looking for donations to get my butt out of serious trouble lol
Click to expand...
You can CC in a bank.

From the MSP website:

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:[/font]



  1. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian
    [/font]

  2. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.
    [/font]

  3. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Sports arena or stadium
    [/font]

  4. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises
    [/font]

  5. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons
    [/font]

  6. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more
    [/font]

  7. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A hospital
    [/font]

  8. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university
    [/font]

  9. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]ACasino
    [/font]
No mention of financial institutions.

Bronson
Click to expand...
Bronson, this list from the MSP website is simply part of 28.425o which prohibits concealed pistols in those places listed.750.234d which prohibits weapons (pistols) in places listed (a)-->(h), Subsection (2) (c) if you have a CPL, you can carry OC in most, if not all those places listed in 28.425o.
Click to expand...
UGH! The back and forth confusing the hell out of me LoL

We need the definitive answer and possibly have it added to the Michigan Open Carry Info thread :)
 
SpringerXDacp

SpringerXDacp

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warlockmatized wrote:
SpringerXDacp wrote:
Bronson wrote:
warlockmatized wrote:
It was MY understanding that places off limits to CC were wide open to OC...like a bank. IF i am mistaken someone please correct me. I hate to have my wife posting on here looking for donations to get my butt out of serious trouble lol
Click to expand...
You can CC in a bank.

From the MSP website:

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:[/font]



  1. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian
    [/font]

  2. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.
    [/font]

  3. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Sports arena or stadium
    [/font]

  4. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises
    [/font]

  5. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons
    [/font]

  6. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more
    [/font]

  7. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A hospital
    [/font]

  8. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university
    [/font]

  9. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]ACasino
    [/font]
No mention of financial institutions.

Bronson
Click to expand...
Bronson, this list from the MSP website is simply part of 28.425o which prohibits concealed pistols in those places listed.750.234d which prohibits weapons (pistols) in places listed (a)-->(h), Subsection (2) (c) if you have a CPL, you can carry OC in most, if not all those places listed in 28.425o.
Click to expand...
UGH! The back and forth confusing the hell out of me LoL

We need the definitive answer and possibly have it added to the Michigan Open Carry Info thread :)
Click to expand...

It's already in there :celebrate

“Your analysis is correct. Non-CPL pistol free zones do not apply to CPL holders. The CPL pistol free zones only apply to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol. Therefore, a CPL holder may openly carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones.”

Sincerely, Sgt. Thomas Deasy, [/b]Michigan[/b] [/b]State[/b] Police Executive Resource Section, (517) 336-6441

“…My office has contacted the Michigan State Police legislative liaison and has received some answers to share with you. According to the liaison, it is legal to openly carry a firearm in a "Pistol Free Zone" if you are a licensed CPL holder. I was advised that your information was correct that MCL 28.425o and MCL 750-234d permit this activity. I was informed that there was no other additional relevant laws regarding this matter…” Michael A Prusi, State Senator 38th District"
 
Bronson

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Still confuses the hell out of me.

I guess I just find it hard to believe that you can openly carry in all of the CC pistol free zones if you have a CPL.

Bronson
 
Bronson

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Just checked 28.425o at the link provided by dougwg http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(h5qa2l45qmtyvoi13eql5r55))/mileg.aspx?page=chapterindexand there is no mention of a financial instiution on the CC pistol free zone list. So I maintain that you can CC in a bank. Am I completely messed up on this?

I guess my confusion stems from the two separate lists of "gun free zones" I keep running across. It's6 a.m. now and I don't have the gumption to find them but they seem to contradict each other.

The one states that the zones don't apply if you are legally CCing, but then the CC rules have their own list, some of which are the same.

Again, confusing as hell to me.

Sorry for being sodense.

Bronson
 
dougwg

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Bronson wrote:
snip..
Again, confusing as hell to me.

Bronson
Click to expand...
I will try to make it clear.

If you DO NOT have a CPL:
You may not legally carry any weapon into a bank, concealed or open. (I'm not talking about pocketknives so don't go there)

If you DO have a CPL:
You may legally carry a sidearm in a holster cocked, locked and ready to rock concealed or open.

Disclaimer: IANAL, I do not suggest OC'ing in a bank just yet, we need a lot more support before that becomes acceptable and that takes time, maybe even years.
 
Tucker6900

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Decoligny wrote:


[align=left]Unless your gun was manufactured in your own state, from parts made in your state, made from metal forged in your state from ore mined in your state, then it has in some form crossed state lines and has affected interstate or foreign commerce. This being the case with almost all guns, you can't OC them in a school zone.[/align]
Click to expand...

Please tell me your joking.
 
Big Gay Al

Big Gay Al

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Tucker6900 wrote:
Hey gang,

I did a search and came up empty handed. There is a discussion going on right now at MGO Forums about the legallity of OC in a school. The OP is questioning it due to the Voting for the upcoming elections will be at a school. Weve had some input from the local Law Guru over there, and Venator, but Im not finding where it says the OC is prohibited in schools. Another poster found the act pertaining to schools, but it only says the Concealed carry in schools is prohibited. What are your thoughts?



http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=28192
Click to expand...
As per Michigan Attorney General's Opinion 7113, OC in a school is NOT legal unless you also hold a valid MI CPL.

Just FYI, most people I know, would advise against it, anyway. I believe this includes Jim Simmons, attorney at law.
 
Big Gay Al

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Bronson wrote:
Just checked 28.425o at the link provided by dougwg http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(h5qa2l45qmtyvoi13eql5r55))/mileg.aspx?page=chapterindexand there is no mention of a financial instiution on the CC pistol free zone list. So I maintain that you can CC in a bank. Am I completely messed up on this?

I guess my confusion stems from the two separate lists of "gun free zones" I keep running across. It's6 a.m. now and I don't have the gumption to find them but they seem to contradict each other.

The one states that the zones don't apply if you are legally CCing, but then the CC rules have their own list, some of which are the same.

Again, confusing as hell to me.

Sorry for being sodense.

Bronson
Click to expand...
Actually, if you read the laws carefully, you'll see it reads that the OC gun free zones don't apply if you have a Concealed permit, not if you are carrying concealed.
 
Big Gay Al

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Tucker6900 wrote:
Decoligny wrote:


[align=left]Unless your gun was manufactured in your own state, from parts made in your state, made from metal forged in your state from ore mined in your state, then it has in some form crossed state lines and has affected interstate or foreign commerce. This being the case with almost all guns, you can't OC them in a school zone.[/align]
Click to expand...

Please tell me your joking.
Click to expand...
I think the following exception, which was in his post, was not taken into consideration.
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
Click to expand...
 
Big Gay Al

Big Gay Al

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warlockmatized wrote:
Tucker6900 wrote:
Hey gang,

I did a search and came up empty handed. There is a discussion going on right now at MGO Forums about the legallity of OC in a school. The OP is questioning it due to the Voting for the upcoming elections will be at a school. Weve had some input from the local Law Guru over there, and Venator, but Im not finding where it says the OC is prohibited in schools. Another poster found the act pertaining to schools, but it only says the Concealed carry in schools is prohibited. What are your thoughts?



http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=28192
Click to expand...
It was MY understanding that places off limits to CC were wide open to OC...like a bank. IF i am mistaken someone please correct me. I hate to have my wife posting on here looking for donations to get my butt out of serious trouble lol
Click to expand...
And actually, OC in a bank is illegal UNLESS you have a CPL. It's one of the OC off limits areas.
 
Bronson

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Big Gay Al wrote:
And actually, OC in a bank is illegal UNLESS you have a CPL. It's one of the OC off limits areas.
Click to expand...
That's what I mean by confusing as hell. There are OC off limit areas and CC off limits areas but you can OC in the CC off limits areas andyou can OC orCC inthe OC off limits areas with a valid CPL :shock::what:

Is that even close to correct? I don't know. I think I'm going to give up and go to bed.

Bronson
 
Big Gay Al

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Bronson wrote:
Big Gay Al wrote:
And actually, OC in a bank is illegal UNLESS you have a CPL. It's one of the OC off limits areas.
Click to expand...
That's what I mean by confusing as hell. There are OC off limit areas and CC off limits areas but you can OC in the CC off limits areas andyou can OC orCC inthe OC off limits areas with a valid CPL :shock::what:

Is that even close to correct? I don't know. I think I'm going to give up and go to bed.

Bronson
Click to expand...
That is somewhat confusing. What you have to do is look at both lists, and let that be your guide. For instance, banks are ONLY on the OC list. They are not even mentioned on the CC list at all. Otherwise, I do believe that both lists are nearly identical, which is where the idea comes from that if you can't CC, you can OC, as long as you have a CPL, which, when you think about it, is really weird.
 
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