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OC in a school

Big Gay Al

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b_twill wrote:
Legal or not, I'm not about to OC at my childs High School. Really don't feel like being the top story on the 11 o'clock news! :shock:
I'm with you on this one. Whenever I go to my sons' school, my weapon is covered, unless I'm going inside, then it's locked up in the glove box. The adults might not notice, but I can guarantee, the children will. And then it's a question, how many will panic and run away screaming, and how many will come and ask to see/handle your firearm. ;)
 

SpringerXDacp

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Bronson wrote:
SNIP
That's what I mean by confusing as hell. There are OC off limit areas and CC off limits areas but you can OC in the CC off limits areas andyou can OC orCC inthe OC off limits areas with a valid CPL :shock::what:

Is that even close to correct? I don't know. I think I'm going to give up and go to bed.

Bronson

Think of this list as places you may OC with a CPL:

750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.



Sec. 234d.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

(b) A church or other house of religious worship.

(c) A court.

(d) A theatre.

(e) A sports arena.

(f) A day care center.

(g) A hospital.

(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

Think of this list as places you may not CCwith a CPL:

28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation.



Sec. 5o.

(1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

(a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, “school” and “school property” mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

(b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.

(c) A sports arena or stadium.

(d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision shall not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that “This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons”. The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but shall not be required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.

(e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.

(f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

(g) A hospital.

(h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.

(2) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative code promulgated pursuant to the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, the Initiated Law of 1996, MCL 432.201 to 432.226.

(3) As used in subsection (1), “premises” does not include parking areas of the places identified under subsection (1).

Hope this helps.
 

Venator

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Big Gay Al wrote:
b_twill wrote:
Legal or not, I'm not about to OC at my childs High School. Really don't feel like being the top story on the 11 o'clock news! :shock:
I'm with you on this one. Whenever I go to my sons' school, my weapon is covered, unless I'm going inside, then it's locked up in the glove box. The adults might not notice, but I can guarantee, the children will. And then it's a question, how many will panic and run away screaming, and how many will come and ask to see/handle your firearm. ;)
When I was OCing in the Capital building, it was school days and the place was crawling with kids. None asked to handle my gun, none went screaming, the only one that called security was a staff member that thought OC was illegal. So I wouldn't spread the myth of kids screaming in terror at the site of a gun in a holster, I haven't ever heard of this happening.
 

Tucker6900

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SpringerXDacp wrote:
Think of this list as places you may OC with a CPL:



Think of this list as places you may not CCwith a CPL:


Hope this helps.
But neither of those state that you cannot OC in a school with, or without for that matter, a CPL. Im not trying to push the issue too much, and I dont plan oncarrying in any school, that would be dumb and probably not worth it in the least bit, but its starting to look to me like something that is unwritten and therefore would not be considered by law to be "Illegal".
 

Big Gay Al

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Venator wrote:
Big Gay Al wrote:
b_twill wrote:
Legal or not, I'm not about to OC at my childs High School. Really don't feel like being the top story on the 11 o'clock news! :shock:
I'm with you on this one. Whenever I go to my sons' school, my weapon is covered, unless I'm going inside, then it's locked up in the glove box. The adults might not notice, but I can guarantee, the children will. And then it's a question, how many will panic and run away screaming, and how many will come and ask to see/handle your firearm. ;)
When I was OCing in the Capital building, it was school days and the place was crawling with kids. None asked to handle my gun, none went screaming, the only one that called security was a staff member that thought OC was illegal. So I wouldn't spread the myth of kids screaming in terror at the site of a gun in a holster, I haven't ever heard of this happening.
Yeah, you're right. I was just, I don't know what I was thinking. ;)
 

Big Gay Al

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Tucker6900 wrote:
SpringerXDacp wrote:
Think of this list as places you may OC with a CPL:



Think of this list as places you may not CCwith a CPL:


Hope this helps.
But neither of those state that you cannot OC in a school with, or without for that matter, a CPL. Im not trying to push the issue too much, and I dont plan oncarrying in any school, that would be dumb and probably not worth it in the least bit, but its starting to look to me like something that is unwritten and therefore would not be considered by law to be "Illegal".
What you're looking for would be in AG's opinion 7113. THAT is where Jenny said that OC in a school zone was legal as long as you have a CPL.
 

SpringerXDacp

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Tucker6900 wrote:
SpringerXDacp wrote:
Think of this list as places you may OC with a CPL:



Think of this list as places you may not CCwith a CPL:


Hope this helps.
But neither of those state that you cannot OC in a school with, or without for that matter, a CPL. Im not trying to push the issue too much, and I dont plan oncarrying in any school, that would be dumb and probably not worth it in the least bit, but its starting to look to me like something that is unwritten and therefore would not be considered by law to be "Illegal".

1) Exactly. Except, you definitely may not OC in a school (K-12) without CPL.

2) Not dumb, but may certainlynot be worth the trouble. YMMV

3) Correct. That is why OC is legal in Michigan. There's no Michigan statue that specifically, allows OC. It's by default. :)
 

Big Gay Al

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What SpringerXD said. As I've seen in other forums, this is NOT the Soviet Union. If there's no law that says you can't do something, then you can do it. And you may notice, there are laws that say where you can't carry a gun, IF you don't have a CPL.

That's how it works in a MOSTLY free country. ;)
 

SpringerXDacp

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Big Gay Al wrote:
What SpringerXD said. As I've seen in other forums, this is NOT the Soviet Union. If there's no law that says you can't do something, then you can do it. And you may notice, there are laws that say where you can't carry a gun, IF you don't have a CPL.

That's how it works in a MOSTLY free country. ;)

For new members, Big Al is referring to MCL 750.234d.

Link:750.234d
 

Tucker6900

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SpringerXDacp wrote:
1) Exactly. Except, you definitely may not OC in a school (K-12) without CPL.

2) Not dumb, but may certainlynot be worth the trouble. YMMV

3) Correct. That is why OC is legal in Michigan. There's no Michigan statue that specifically, allows OC. It's by default. :)

Cool. Thanks for breaking it down for me,its hard to understand at times.


And what is YMMV?:?:D
 

SpringerXDacp

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Tucker6900 wrote:
SpringerXDacp wrote:
1) Exactly. Except, you definitely may not OC in a school (K-12) without CPL.

2) Not dumb, but may certainlynot be worth the trouble. YMMV

3) Correct. That is why OC is legal in Michigan. There's no Michigan statue that specifically, allows OC. It's by default. :)

Cool. Thanks for breaking it down for me,its hard to understand at times.


And what is YMMV?:?:D
Your Mileage May Vary
 

Venator

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SpringerXDacp wrote:
Tucker6900 wrote:
SpringerXDacp wrote:
Think of this list as places you may OC with a CPL:



Think of this list as places you may not CCwith a CPL:


Hope this helps.
But neither of those state that you cannot OC in a school with, or without for that matter, a CPL. Im not trying to push the issue too much, and I dont plan oncarrying in any school, that would be dumb and probably not worth it in the least bit, but its starting to look to me like something that is unwritten and therefore would not be considered by law to be "Illegal".

1) Exactly. Except, you definitely may not OC in a school (K-12) without CPL.

2) Not dumb, but may certainlynot be worth the trouble. YMMV

3) Correct. That is why OC is legal in Michigan. There's no Michigan statue that specifically, allows OC. It's by default. :)


Why can't you OC without a CPL in a school? It's not listed in 750.234d as a gun free zone is it?
 

Big Gay Al

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Well, I'll be damned, schools are NOT on the list of prohibited places for Open carry!!

That's just dumb. How the heck did they get on the concealed carry prohibited list? Oh, wait, I forgot. We can thank the now, Executive Director of MCRGO for that piece of bull crap.
 

SpringerXDacp

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Venator wrote:
SpringerXDacp wrote:
Tucker6900 wrote:
SpringerXDacp wrote:
Think of this list as places you may OC with a CPL:



Think of this list as places you may not CCwith a CPL:


Hope this helps.
But neither of those state that you cannot OC in a school with, or without for that matter, a CPL. Im not trying to push the issue too much, and I dont plan oncarrying in any school, that would be dumb and probably not worth it in the least bit, but its starting to look to me like something that is unwritten and therefore would not be considered by law to be "Illegal".

1) Exactly. Except, you definitely may not OC in a school (K-12) without CPL.

2) Not dumb, but may certainlynot be worth the trouble. YMMV

3) Correct. That is why OC is legal in Michigan. There's no Michigan statue that specifically, allows OC. It's by default. :)


Why can't you OC without a CPL in a school? It's not listed in 750.234d as a gun free zone is it?
I'll admit, "definitely may not"wasthe wrong choice of words. We've discussed this before to try to understand why it is that (K-12) is not listed in 234d. It was assumed, at least on my part, that federal laws were in place, i.e. Gun Free School Zone Act(s) 1990, 1994, 1995, etc.
 

SpringerXDacp

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Venator wrote:
SpringerXDacp wrote:
Tucker6900 wrote:
SpringerXDacp wrote:
Think of this list as places you may OC with a CPL:



Think of this list as places you may not CCwith a CPL:


Hope this helps.
But neither of those state that you cannot OC in a school with, or without for that matter, a CPL. Im not trying to push the issue too much, and I dont plan oncarrying in any school, that would be dumb and probably not worth it in the least bit, but its starting to look to me like something that is unwritten and therefore would not be considered by law to be "Illegal".

1) Exactly. Except, you definitely may not OC in a school (K-12) without CPL.

2) Not dumb, but may certainlynot be worth the trouble. YMMV

3) Correct. That is why OC is legal in Michigan. There's no Michigan statue that specifically, allows OC. It's by default. :)


Why can't you OC without a CPL in a school? It's not listed in 750.234d as a gun free zone is it?


This is all I have about schools (K-12).

In pertinent part:

(4) Except as provided in subsection (5), an individual who possesses a weapon in a weapon free school zone is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by 1 or more of the following:

(a) Imprisonment for not more than 93 days.

(b) Community service for not more than 100 hours.

(c) A fine of not more than $2,000.00.

(5) Subsection (4) does not apply to any of the following:

(a) An individual employed by or contracted by a school if the possession of that weapon is to provide security services for the school.

(b) A peace officer.

(c) An individual licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

Link:750.237a

ETA: Because 237a includes buildings, this is where, IMO, a CPL is required to OC. 28.425o already prohibits CC in schools (K-12).
 

Big Gay Al

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Yup, it would be the Federal gun free zones thingy that would require a Concealed Pistol License to carry there, openly.

And 750.237a. :)
 

Venator

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SpringerXDacp wrote:
This is all I have about schools (K-12).

In pertinent part:

(4) Except as provided in subsection (5), an individual who possesses a weapon in a weapon free school zone is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by 1 or more of the following:

(a) Imprisonment for not more than 93 days.

(b) Community service for not more than 100 hours.

(c) A fine of not more than $2,000.00.

(5) Subsection (4) does not apply to any of the following:

(a) An individual employed by or contracted by a school if the possession of that weapon is to provide security services for the school.

(b) A peace officer.

(c) An individual licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

Link:750.237a

ETA: Because 237a includes buildings, this is where, IMO, a CPL is required to OC. 28.425o already prohibits CC in schools (K-12).

Yes, and I think this refers (750.237a) to students that bring weapons into school zones, not adults. I can't find anything that states adults can not have a firearm on school grounds. I can't find what these are. 224, 224a, 224b, 224c, 224e, 226, 227, 227a, 227f, 234a, 234b, or 234c, Can somebody post what conduct these refer to?



THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931

750.237a Individuals engaging in proscribed conduct; violation; penalties; definitions.


Sec. 237a.

(1) An individual who engages in conduct proscribed under section 224, 224a, 224b, 224c, 224e, 226, 227, 227a, 227f, 234a, 234b, or 234c, or who engages in conduct proscribed under section 223(2) for a second or subsequent time, in a weapon free school zone is guilty of a felony punishable by 1 or more of the following:

(a) Imprisonment for not more than the maximum term of imprisonment authorized for the section violated.

(b) Community service for not more than 150 hours.

(c) A fine of not more than 3 times the maximum fine authorized for the section violated.

(2) An individual who engages in conduct proscribed under section 223(1), 224d, 226a, 227c, 227d, 231c, 232a(1) or (4), 233, 234, 234e, 234f, 235, 236, or 237, or who engages in conduct proscribed under section 223(2) for the first time, in a weapon free school zone is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by 1 or more of the following:

(a) Imprisonment for not more than the maximum term of imprisonment authorized for the section violated or 93 days, whichever is greater.

(b) Community service for not more than 100 hours.

(c) A fine of not more than $2,000.00 or the maximum fine authorized for the section violated, whichever is greater.

(3) Subsections (1) and (2) do not apply to conduct proscribed under a section enumerated in those subsections to the extent that the proscribed conduct is otherwise exempted or authorized under this chapter.

(4) Except as provided in subsection (5), an individual who possesses a weapon in a weapon free school zone is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by 1 or more of the following:

(a) Imprisonment for not more than 93 days.

(b) Community service for not more than 100 hours.

(c) A fine of not more than $2,000.00.
 

SpringerXDacp

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Venator wrote:
SpringerXDacp wrote:
This is all I have about schools (K-12).

In pertinent part:

(4) Except as provided in subsection (5), an individual who possesses a weapon in a weapon free school zone is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by 1 or more of the following:

(a) Imprisonment for not more than 93 days.

(b) Community service for not more than 100 hours.

(c) A fine of not more than $2,000.00.

(5) Subsection (4) does not apply to any of the following:

(a) An individual employed by or contracted by a school if the possession of that weapon is to provide security services for the school.

(b) A peace officer.

(c) An individual licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

Link:750.237a

ETA: Because 237a includes buildings, this is where, IMO, a CPL is required to OC. 28.425o already prohibits CC in schools (K-12).

Yes, and I think this refers (750.237a) to students that bring weapons into school zones, not adults. I can't find anything that states adults can not have a firearm on school grounds. I can't find what these are. 224, 224a, 224b, 224c, 224e, 226, 227, 227a, 227f, 234a, 234b, or 234c, Can somebody post what conduct these refer to?



THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931

750.237a Individuals engaging in proscribed conduct; violation; penalties; definitions.


Sec. 237a.

(1) An individual who engages in conduct proscribed under section 224, 224a, 224b, 224c, 224e, 226, 227, 227a, 227f, 234a, 234b, or 234c, or who engages in conduct proscribed under section 223(2) for a second or subsequent time, in a weapon free school zone is guilty of a felony punishable by 1 or more of the following:

(a) Imprisonment for not more than the maximum term of imprisonment authorized for the section violated.

(b) Community service for not more than 150 hours.

(c) A fine of not more than 3 times the maximum fine authorized for the section violated.

(2) An individual who engages in conduct proscribed under section 223(1), 224d, 226a, 227c, 227d, 231c, 232a(1) or (4), 233, 234, 234e, 234f, 235, 236, or 237, or who engages in conduct proscribed under section 223(2) for the first time, in a weapon free school zone is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by 1 or more of the following:

(a) Imprisonment for not more than the maximum term of imprisonment authorized for the section violated or 93 days, whichever is greater.

(b) Community service for not more than 100 hours.

(c) A fine of not more than $2,000.00 or the maximum fine authorized for the section violated, whichever is greater.

(3) Subsections (1) and (2) do not apply to conduct proscribed under a section enumerated in those subsections to the extent that the proscribed conduct is otherwise exempted or authorized under this chapter.

(4) Except as provided in subsection (5), an individual who possesses a weapon in a weapon free school zone is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by 1 or more of the following:

(a) Imprisonment for not more than 93 days.

(b) Community service for not more than 100 hours.

(c) A fine of not more than $2,000.00.
I don't think it applies (750.237a) only to students. How many students in grades K-->12 would meet requirements for a CPL?

Here are the links for the Sections.

224 , 224a , 224b , 224c , 224e , 226 , 227 , 227a , 227f , 234a , 234b or 234c
 

Phoenixphire

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I can make it real simple.



Get a Concealed Pistol License, from your state of residence.

Open carry your firearm.

As far as STATE LAW is concerned, you now can go anywhere in Michigan.

Remember there are FEDERAL LAW restrictions. (Courthouses, Post Office, etc.)
 

Phoenixphire

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Big Gay Al wrote:
Well, I'll be damned, schools are NOT on the list of prohibited places for Open carry!!

That's just dumb. How the heck did they get on the concealed carry prohibited list? Oh, wait, I forgot. We can thank the now, Executive Director of MCRGO for that piece of bull crap.

EDIT: Nevermind.
 
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