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Thread: EMT Procedures

  1. #1
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    I remember someone telling me that an EMT is trained to wait until a police officer arrives (or other qualified person) so that the firearm can be secured before they begin to "work on you". Is this the case in most states? After I defend my life in my home or at work, am I going to bleed to death as help watches because I have a firearm? Just a morbid thought...

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    Not in my limited experience though I trained in the Eighties and practiced only on racetracks.

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    That wouldn't make sense unless the person was violent. I know that in a violent crime situation they are supposed to wait, although I'm sure they could "enter at their own risk" if they REALLY wanted to. Nothing is physically preventing them from doing so.

    Now, if you got in a car wreck and there was a gun in your car, I don't believe that they would let you die simply because a gun was near you. What if you got in a car wreck and were CCing? Do they leave you on the ground as soon as they find out you're armed and wait for police to arrive?

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    Weak 9mm wrote:
    What if you got in a car wreck and were CCing? Do they leave you on the ground as soon as they find out you're armed and wait for police to arrive?
    That seems to be the most likely worry. When I CC, it's right at my appendix. If they had to remove any clothing in order to fix me, I wouldn't want them to stop because they didn't want to remove the firearm from me. I mean, the holster is easy to remove, but even I don't like to handle weapons I'm not familiar with unless someone there is watching me.

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    If the call involves violence or the use of weapons, we are susposed to wait until police arrive and secure the scene. This is a guide and depends on how quickly the police can arrive, the actual nature of the call, and to some degree how secure you feel in defending yourself. In most areas EMS Providers are not allowed to carry weapons. Working for a fire based system there is always some tool that is available if needed, also, I work in an area where there is good access to the police when we need them.
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    If a cop goes down on his motorcycle and the paramedics are the first to arrive I doubt they would just watch him bleeding on the street waiting for another cop to show up just because there is a gun strapped to the injured cops hip.

    I asked my neighbor who's a paramedic what he would do and his said that if it was an average joe that had a gun on him and that there was no reason to believe that he was a threat, the injured person would be treated just like anyone else. The EMT's would only wait for the police if the injured was aggressive, threatening, etc.

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    Excellent thread and a matter I have never considered previously. I look forward to the further responses and thank the OP for posing the question.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    I had a basic medic certification at one time, and one of the first things they beat into us (after encouraging the squeamish to leave outright) was that you do a scene size-up when you arrive on a call. If there is any unresonable danger to the responders, restage at a safe distance and let the cops handle the threat, then attend to the sick/wounded.

    -ljp

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    Sure isn't the policy here in Arizona. After my CZ52 fell and shot me and I called 911, they just asked that I secure it as best as possible fo the EMS people wouldn't worry. Although, it did turn out that the cops came right with the EMS dudes. Then I told the cops I wanted to have it molten down, and both the cops and the EMT's looked at me like I was weird, and I should keep it because why would anyone in their right mind want to voluntarily give up a gun even if it just broke their leg, but they did take it after I insisted I wanted it molten down. I think I heard "are you sure?" no less than 3 times.
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    Michigander wrote:
    Sure isn't the policy here in Arizona. After my CZ52 fell and shot me and I called 911, they just asked that I secure it as best as possible fo the EMS people wouldn't worry. Although, it did turn out that the cops came right with the EMS dudes. Then I told the cops I wanted to have it molten down, and both the cops and the EMT's looked at me like I was weird, and I should keep it because why would anyone in their right mind want to voluntarily give up a gun even if it just broke their leg, but they did take it after I insisted I wanted it molten down. I think I heard "are you sure?" no less than 3 times.
    Any gun that can't fall without discharging needs melting and I would like to personally thank you for not selling that POS to some unsuspecting person.

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    Ill add my opinion, and experience into the mix.

    As a Deputy Fire Chief, and EMT in a rural area, our police protection comes from the State Police. In a situation of a shooting, we try to wait for police to arrive. Sometimes however, they could have an extended ETA. I remember about 2 years ago, during a bad winter storm, we had a suicide, gun shot. The EMS units had an extremely hard time making it to the scene, and PD was having a worse time. The family came out and stated they had the weapon secured. We then went in, in the safest way possible.

    During a car accident last year, i arrived onscene and found a male pt. that was thrown from the driver seat of his SUV to the rear storage area. Upon examination of injuries, i found him to have a weapon in his waistband. Due to the pt. being unresponsive, I still did advise him( incase he began to come around) that i was removing his weapon and securing it for his safety and my own. I immediately removed his weapon and secured it in my locked vehicle. Once the medics arrived and took over care, PD arrived a short time later, I advised them of my findings and turned the weapon over to them.

    Again, Its all situational. I have only been on 2 incidents with officers involved in an accident, and by the time we got there( they were both in an area that had a decent sized city police force), there were already several other officers there and had the weapon secure.



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    Good to know

    That is the most likey situation I can think of. A holstered weapon shouldn't freak out too many people, especially here in Idaho. I'd almost rather be OCing though, much easier to remove it than my CC holster, and in a much safer spot (my CC gun points right at some very personal items). I'd hate for the EMT to have an accident and change my religion.

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    You have asked three very different questions here.

    First, some medics are avid gun owners like yourself and may feel comfortable enough to safety your weapon (or would be assailants weapon) and secure it until PD gets there. Some agencies have also been trained in securing a police officers weapons in case the officer is injured.

    Second, if you were defending yourself and had to fire your weapon in reported self-defense and secured it yourself (ie holstered or unloaded) and the 911 operator was given that information we could use our judgement and proceed in.

    Finally, if you were unarmed and disabled by an assailant (shot, stabbed etc.) and the assailant was still present we would have to wait for PD to clear the scene, however if the assailant has fled it is very important that a description is given and that the operator is aware the assailant is gone. If the assailant is gone, then we can come directly to your aid.

    I hope that helps, there are some agencies that are very leary about handling weapons and others that train their people that those encounters arepart of the job, unfortunatley it happens too often in our society.



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    not to sound condescending (I don't know your training history), but maybe a question like this is a sign that you should take at least a Red Cross First Aid course if not a trauma course from a good training school.
    Quote Originally Posted by Open Carry.org Member View Post
    I really disgree with this one! That means that we can have any yahoo running around with a gun with out the proper training. This really scares the hell out of me. Just my two-cents!
    Quote Originally Posted by KansasMustang View Post
    Joe Schmedlap out there with a loaded weapon thinking he's going to deter crime and he's not even trained to fire his weapon safely just kinda makes my hair on the back of my neck stand up.

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    thorvaldr wrote:
    Michigander wrote:
    Sure isn't the policy here in Arizona. After my CZ52 fell and shot me and I called 911, they just asked that I secure it as best as possible fo the EMS people wouldn't worry. Although, it did turn out that the cops came right with the EMS dudes. Then I told the cops I wanted to have it molten down, and both the cops and the EMT's looked at me like I was weird, and I should keep it because why would anyone in their right mind want to voluntarily give up a gun even if it just broke their leg, but they did take it after I insisted I wanted it molten down. I think I heard "are you sure?" no less than 3 times.
    Any gun that can't fall without discharging needs melting and I would like to personally thank you for not selling that POS to some unsuspecting person.
    not to high jack the thread further, but with that train of thought people may want to get rid of their Remington 870's and Mosbergs, then. The reason police drive around without the shotgun chambered is they do not have a firing pin safety like modern rifles and handguns.
    Quote Originally Posted by Open Carry.org Member View Post
    I really disgree with this one! That means that we can have any yahoo running around with a gun with out the proper training. This really scares the hell out of me. Just my two-cents!
    Quote Originally Posted by KansasMustang View Post
    Joe Schmedlap out there with a loaded weapon thinking he's going to deter crime and he's not even trained to fire his weapon safely just kinda makes my hair on the back of my neck stand up.

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    If you are referring to my training catass, I am currently a Paramedic in the field here in Wasington for over 15 years. I also was a PJ (Pararescue) in the US Air Force served during Desert Shield/Desert Storm was on the ground when US forces entered Iraq. In addition to other tours in combat zones during my time in the service.

    Additionally, I have served as a Tactical Medic for several SRT's. I hopethat helps you with my qualifications.

    Any questions?

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    tacmedic911 wrote:
    If you are referring to my training catass, I am currently a Paramedic in the field here in Wasington for over 15 years. I also was a PJ (Pararescue) in the US Air Force served during Desert Shield/Desert Storm was on the ground when US forces entered Iraq. In addition to other tours in combat zones during my time in the service.

    Additionally, I have served as a Tactical Medic for several SRT's. I hopethat helps you with my qualifications.

    Any questions?
    not you, tacmedic, the original poster. The subject starter, if you will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Open Carry.org Member View Post
    I really disgree with this one! That means that we can have any yahoo running around with a gun with out the proper training. This really scares the hell out of me. Just my two-cents!
    Quote Originally Posted by KansasMustang View Post
    Joe Schmedlap out there with a loaded weapon thinking he's going to deter crime and he's not even trained to fire his weapon safely just kinda makes my hair on the back of my neck stand up.

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    Nope, I think he means my qualifications. You're right, its been several years since I've attended a first aid class and it's welcome advice. However, the last class I took didn't mention anything about firearms from what I remember. Personally, I'd feel safe securing a weapon if I was trying to assist someone in need. I was more worried about how the guy who is helping me feels about it.

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    All of our squads are equipted with gun safes. We lock up the weapon during transport and turn it over to the cops at the hospitalwhile the owner is being treated

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    IndianaBoy79 wrote:
    You're right, its been several years since I've attended a first aid class and it's welcome advice. However, the last class I took didn't mention anything about firearms from what I remember.
    A grown man can bleed out in less than 90 seconds from an arterial bleed. Learning how to properly self-apply a TQ can be a life saver. A meatwagon cannot be everywhere just like the police can't. Get medical training. I'll pass it along the same way I've been taught, "you'll have more oppurtunities to save a life than take a life."
    Quote Originally Posted by Open Carry.org Member View Post
    I really disgree with this one! That means that we can have any yahoo running around with a gun with out the proper training. This really scares the hell out of me. Just my two-cents!
    Quote Originally Posted by KansasMustang View Post
    Joe Schmedlap out there with a loaded weapon thinking he's going to deter crime and he's not even trained to fire his weapon safely just kinda makes my hair on the back of my neck stand up.

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    Thanks for clarifying, I guess it really comes down to how the specific medic feels about handling firearms in the field. Some of the men and women I work with look at firearms like a wigley worm or something slimey. Some of us though are avid "gun nuts"

    Good topic



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    Here it depends on the situation. If we feel comfortable removing the weapon, we will do so. If we feel like our safety is in jeordy, we will wait for the PD. I feel that immediate care is vital in saving a life, and I usually work on the patient as soon as I can safey do so.

    Alot of EMT's I work with are avid gun owners like myself, and have no probem with moving a weapon. We do have a few that are not comfortable around weapons, but usually there partner or the first PD will secure the weapon.

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    Another pro gun Fire Fighter / EMT here. Never actually encountered anyone carrying but I've disassembled just about every firearm out there... if needed I'd prefer to secure the weapon rather than let some random cop of unknown skill try and do it in the back of my rig. the idea of a ND blowing the top of a O2 cylinder or ricocheting off one doesn't appeal to me.

    All depends on the situation.., in any event I wouldn't be compromising patient care unless I felt the pt presented an actual threat i.e. OD druggie I'd disarm before reviving them obviously.

    Chances are I've dealt with medical patients and not known they were carrying, unlike a trauma pt most medical pt's don't get the same "full body" treatment.

    Lots of pro gun medics out there.

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