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Thread: Be Safe - Lock Up Everything

  1. #1
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I think this refers to the recent Richmond LEO shooting in Chesterfield County - not sure though.

    ttp://tinyurl.com/65rnch

    __________________________________________________ __________________
    Dangerous novelty lighters

    A man was shot by a police detective over the weekend while wielding a box cutter and a cigarette lighter that resembled a gun.Some local firefighters weren't surprised to hear about the incident. No more mention of the box cutter.

    They say novelty lighters are dangerous for a number of reasons, especially when it comes to children. What are the other reasons?

    It looks like a flip-flop keychain you might pick up at a beach souvenier shop but, the danger is one click away. Novelty lighters are easy to find and easy to use, things that make them scary for firefighters. Are they also scared of matchs, gasoline and cars? How big was it? Sounds very small - could it be the size of a cigarette lighter ?

    "We have issues that children are also drawn to them, and ifI looked at it, I would think it was a toy, versus a tool," says William Jones, Battalion Chief ofHanover County Fire. Takefor instance, what looks like a little toy dog, it looks innocent, and would certainly be attractive to a child. But one motion and a flame comes out of it's nose. What happened to child resistant lighters?

    Jones says you should treat lighters like these almost like weapons and lock them away so that children do not have access to them. You see your honor, he had a cigarette lighter and he had it in his hand......
    __________________________________________________ ________________

    It is my understanding that the man "threatened" the LEO and advanced on him. I am not challanging the officer's justification. I sincerely hope his actions were what any other resonable man would have done.

    The article proposes that we lock up things that if improperly used could be dangerous. Many try to make there homes "child safe." There's nothing wrong with that but education of them must be the biggest part of the process. Everything cannot be locked up! It would be easier to lock them in an empty room - then they'd be safe from themselves........and I'd be locked up.

    I won't have room in my house for all of my safes: cigarette lighter and match safe, knife safe, fork safe, medicine safe, cleaning product safe, electricity safe, water safe, magazine safe - there must be others.

    I agree that cigarette lighters (and other items) should be kept from toddlers but not because of the way that they look! Never let your child eat a gingerbread man or even see you putting them in the oven. Gasp - PLEASE!

    BTW - I deduct that the box cutter was the recognized weapon not the cigarette lighter. Yes, I know that there are fuctional miniature firearms - DGT (don't go there)!

    Rant over - your turn.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  2. #2
    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    Badguy+boxcutter+refuses to drop it= BANG!
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    ODA 226 wrote:
    Badguy+boxcutter+refuses to drop it= BANG!
    Don't forget the child safety device: click, bang!

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  4. #4
    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    ODA 226 wrote:
    Badguy+boxcutter+refuses to drop it= BANG!
    Don't forget the child safety device: click, bang!

    Yata hey
    My child's safety device is a Taurus M650 2 inch .357 Magnum. I pity the fool that messes with her!
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

  5. #5
    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Wouldn't it be easier just to lock up the children?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    zoom6zoom wrote:
    Wouldn't it be easier just to lock up the children?
    Yes but...see previous post: " It would be easier to lock them in an empty room - then they'd be safe from themselves........and I'd be locked up.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  7. #7
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    I wouldnt think twice if I saw someone pointing one of these at me and I couldnt immediately recognize it as a lighter. I'd drop them like a hot rock. The revolver even has a laser sight (they call it a laser pointer).





    How about seeing someone reach around the front of their body for this? Its a belt buckle gun cigarette lighter.





    Stuff like this RPD incident has happened before....





    01/06/2008 11:41 PM


    Man Carrying Gun-Like Cigarette Lighter Shot and Killed





    LAPD Officer Peter Mah shot and killed a man in Los Angeles after he brandished a cigarette lighter that "simulated a small-caliber pistol."

    Mah, in uniform, was patrolling the area in an unmarked police car when he saw a man that appeared to be stealing lumber from a nearby lumber-yard. Suspicious of the man’s activities, Mah followed the suspect.

    When the suspect noticed he was being followed, he stopped his car and began approaching Mah’s vehicle with the gun-shaped lighter in hand. Mah shot several times, killing the man. The man’s name has not been released, pending family notification.

    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    zoom6zoom wrote:
    Wouldn't it be easier just to lock up the children?
    OK, you get the first out loud laugh of the day award :^)!

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    If you brandish a hot dog bun as if a lethal weapon at an LEO or LAAC, you will likely get shot. Brandishing anything in such a manner as to give the impression to someone else that you are armed, dangerous, willing and able to cause them death or severe bodily harm may very well get you killed, period.

    I agree with the lock the children in an empty room crowd. It would certainly make watching a movie or walking around the mall more pleasant. Let's not do it for the children for once. Let's do it for the adults!
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  10. #10
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    I wouldnt think twice if I saw someone pointing one of these at me and I couldnt immediately recognize it as a lighter. I'd drop them like a hot rock. The revolver even has a laser sight (they call it a laser pointer).
    (snip)
    Stuff like this RPD incident has happened before.

    Man Carrying Gun-Like Cigarette Lighter Shot and Killed

    LAPD Officer Peter Mah shot and killed a man in Los Angeles after he brandished a cigarette lighter that "simulated a small-caliber pistol."
    The point of the thread was NOT whether some non-guns might appear real. They do. I was/am not pleased with the intolerant intonation sung by the writer.

    Quoting fom my OP,

    "It is my understanding that the man "threatened" the LEO and advanced on him. I am not challanging the officer's justification. I sincerely hope his actions were what any other reasonable man would have done."
    &
    " The article proposes that we lock up things that if improperly used could be dangerous. I paraphrased.
    &
    I agree that cigarette lighters (and other items) should be kept from toddlers but not because of the way that they look!

    An articulate man would understand that that my chagrin was that the implication and reference was made that children need to be protected from such things - the thought police et al at work again.

    My son was allowed to play with toy guns. He hunted and shot long before he was out of grade school. He knew where my weapons were and how to use them in an emergency and had received very complete, repeated instruction to that regard. Never was there a problem.

    I neither hide lighters, matches, cleaning solvents nor picked up breakable objects from the table tops.

    BTW - I would never give voice on a public forum to my musings regarding what I might do in such a situation as you describe but then that's just me.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    I wouldnt think twice if I saw someone pointing one of these at me and I couldnt immediately recognize it as a lighter. I'd drop them like a hot rock. The revolver even has a laser sight (they call it a laser pointer).
    (snip)
    Stuff like this RPD incident has happened before.

    Man Carrying Gun-Like Cigarette Lighter Shot and Killed

    LAPD Officer Peter Mah shot and killed a man in Los Angeles after he brandished a cigarette lighter that "simulated a small-caliber pistol."
    The point of the thread was NOT whether some non-guns might appear real. They do. I was/am not pleased with the intolerant intonation sung by the writer.

    Quoting fom my OP,

    "It is my understanding that the man "threatened" the LEO and advanced on him. I am not challanging the officer's justification. I sincerely hope his actions were what any other reasonable man would have done."
    &
    " The article proposes that we lock up things that if improperly used could be dangerous. I paraphrased.
    &
    I agree that cigarette lighters (and other items) should be kept from toddlers but not because of the way that they look!
    &
    Yes, I know that there are fuctional miniature firearms - DGT (don't go there)!

    An articulate man would understand that that my chagrin was that the implication and reference was made that children need to be protected from such things - the thought police et al at work again.

    My son was allowed to play with toy guns. He hunted and shot long before he was out of grade school. He knew where my weapons were and how to use them in an emergency and had received very complete, repeated instruction to that regard. Never was there a problem.

    I neither hide lighters, matches, cleaning solvents nor picked up breakable objects from the table tops.

    BTW - I would never give voice on a public forum to my musings regarding what I might do in such a situation as you describe but then that's just me.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  12. #12
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    I wouldnt think twice if I saw someone pointing one of these at me and I couldnt immediately recognize it as a lighter. I'd drop them like a hot rock. The revolver even has a laser sight (they call it a laser pointer).
    (snip)
    Stuff like this RPD incident has happened before.

    Man Carrying Gun-Like Cigarette Lighter Shot and Killed

    LAPD Officer Peter Mah shot and killed a man in Los Angeles after he brandished a cigarette lighter that "simulated a small-caliber pistol."

    The point of the thread was NOT whether some non-guns might appear real. They do. I was/am not pleased with the intolerant intonation sung by the writer.

    I didnt miss your point. I simply added to it with some photos that I had handy relating to the story that you quoted. We obviously cant lock up everything that could ever cause injury to someone, nor can we lock up the children and shelter them forever





    BTW - I would never give voice on a public forum to my musings regarding what I might do in such a situation as you describe but then that's just me.
    I guess that's where we differ. I'm secure in my statement and what my potential actions might be. As I stated, I would have no hesitation defending myself, as the officer in the story did, if someone pointed one of these types of objects at me and I couldnt immediately identify it as a lighter and not a real handgun. Even someone advancing on you with a boxcutter, as this attacker allegedly did,could be enough to warrant the use of deadly force to protect yourself. The 21 foot rule is still fresh in my mind.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  13. #13
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    ProShooter - Ok - glad you clarified it.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    zoom6zoom wrote:
    Wouldn't it be easier just to lock up the children?
    Depends on the children. My neices and nephews tend to chew through anything less than logging-grade stuff...:P Disturbs the heck out o' the Child Welfare folks...:shock:

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