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Thread: VA-ALERT: VCDL Update 8/5/08

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    VA-ALERT: VCDL Update 8/5/08

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Philip Van Cleave
    Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:34 AM
    Subject: VA-ALERT: VCDL Update 8/5/08

    VCDL Update 8/5/08 - "Defending your right to defend yourself"

    1. Southwest VA VCDL Picnic scheduled!
    2. Membership - onward and upward
    3. VCDL bumper sticker in Afghanistan
    4. Police encounters: knock & talk and searches
    5. RPV calls for repeal of NPS gun ban
    6. Who needs a gun in a restaurant?
    7. Heller, others challenge semi-automatic ban
    8. Woman gun owner sues DC Mayor Fenty
    9. Police release horrific cold-blooded robbery/murder video in order
    to find suspect
    10. Dems seek deal with NRA on DC gun laws
    11. Online petition in DC to repeal semi-auto ban
    12. Morton Grove handgun ban: another one bites the dust
    13. Chicago lays out handgun legal strategy
    14. LTE: Semi-automatic guns are not assault rifles
    15. Who needs a gun in a church? (TN)
    16. Unitarian Universalists: if only we could've banned guns
    17. TN sheriff appointing citizens as "Special Church Deputies"
    18. SF Mayor blames NRA for triple homicide by illegal alien
    19. DHS chairman may pursue federal firearm restrictions at airports
    20. Who needs a gun on a bus? (Canada)
    21. Washington Post writer a novelist too
    22. Gun shows and events!

    1. Southwest VA VCDL Picnic scheduled!

    Mark your calendars! EM Al Steed has organized a VCDL picnic in Salem
    on Saturday, October 11th.

    It will be held at Longwood Park, Main Street, Salem from 5 PM until
    10 PM.

    The picnic shelter can hold 60 to 70 people and is lighted.

    A menu and more details, including the names of speakers, will follow
    in future updates.

    To RSVP for the picnic, send an email with your name and the number of
    people in your party to:

    2. Membership - onward and upward

    A thread on on joining VCDL has a theme that I like -
    getting our members to sign up ONE NEW person. Just finding that ONE
    new member would DOUBLE our size in no time!

    Those of you who get these alerts and who aren't yet members - please
    think about joining up so our membership numbers are as high as
    possible. The General Assembly session starts in January - not very
    far away anymore. :-(

    Here is a link to the thread:

    And here's the link to join VCDL:

    3. VCDL bumper sticker in Afghanistan

    Guns do indeed save lives, as one of our brave VCDL members serving in
    Afghanistan reconfirmed with excellent photos. Luckily, he was not
    hurt in the vicious fighting that broke out shortly after the pictures
    were taken.

    Godspeed to all the brave Americans serving in Iraq and Afghanistan:

    4. Police encounters: knock & talk and searches

    A few members emailed me after last week's update to say that I should
    explain more about VCDL's opposition to "knock and talk" encounters
    with police. The sentiment was that VCDL might look anti-police or
    that police generally aren't trustworthy.

    I agree - many may be new here and have missed other such discussions.

    VCDL is most certainly NOT anti-police. I am ex-law enforcement
    myself and am extremely proud of the six years of service I provided
    in Texas years ago and was proud to be counted amongst law
    enforcement. We have many law enforcement officers as members and
    have been supportive of them.

    The problem is that one has to remember that police officers are SWORN
    to uphold the law. Thus, if they are in your house having a
    conversation and they notice something illegal, then they MUST act.
    Anytime you invite a police officer into your house, you are putting
    them in a position where they might have to arrest you should they see
    anything improper.

    Now, I know that you are thinking: "But I am a good guy! I have
    nothing to hide. The police will see nothing wrong in my house (or
    car, or boat, etc.). So let them come in!"

    There might be nothing illegal that you KNOW about.

    Here's a true story to make my point:

    Right after September 11, 2001, one of our members, who was a courier,
    was directed to deliver a part to a nuclear power plant.

    The member wasn't a dummy. He knew that security would be tight to
    the point of paranoid, so he unloaded his concealed handgun, left it
    in plain view on his seat, parked well back of the guard gate, and
    walked up to the guard gate unarmed.

    Indeed there was a young state trooper at the gate, in addition to
    normal security. The trooper noticed the EMPTY shoulder holster and
    asked the VCDL member if he had a gun. The VCDL member answered
    truthfully that he did back in his car.

    The trooper went the the member's car and proceeded to "read him the
    riot act." However, the officer was out of line as the member was
    doing nothing illegal.

    Then the officer asked, "Can I search your car?"

    The member thinking that he was a good guy and had absolutely nothing
    to hide, said, "Sure!"

    Bad, bad, bad mistake.

    The officer searched the inside of the car and then popped the trunk.

    The officer looked in the trunk and then stood up and advised the
    permit holder to put his hands behind his back and he arrested the
    permit holder.

    The shocked permit holder asked what the officer had found.

    The officer said, "You have a bolt cutter in the trunk. That is
    considered a burglary tool in Virginia. I am charging you with
    possession of burglary tools AND felony attempt to sabotage a nuclear
    power plant!"

    The member (and most of you, I'll bet) had no idea that having bolt
    cutters in your trunk was a crime! Remember, the law books can cover
    a huge amount of space in a library. Buried in those books are laws
    against more things than you can possibly imagine!

    The member went straight to PRISON for THREE DAYS, until he could be

    In the end ALL charges were dropped, but the member was out some
    serious money, lost many night's sleep, and lost his job.

    There would have been similar results if the member had a teenage
    child who had hidden some drugs in the trunk, unbeknownst to his or
    her parents. The unsuspecting parent lets the police search the trunk
    and WHAMO - off to jail.

    Let me put it this way. If I said to you that I had a casino and the
    BEST you could do if you played absolutely perfectly was BREAK EVEN,
    would you come to my casino?


    That is the same arrangement you have when you let the police search
    your car or step into your house during a "knock and talk." The best
    you can do is to NOT get arrested. The worst you can do is go to jail
    for something you didn't even know was illegal.

    Are all police bad and not to be trusted? Of course not! But
    remember that they are sworn and they may incorrectly believe you have
    something to hide and thus ask if they can search your car or come
    into your house. If they see something and you have given them
    permission to look, you're in a lot of trouble.

    5. RPV calls for repeal of NPS gun ban

    EM Dennis Fusaro writes:

    The Republican Party of Virginia has posted the grassroots resolution
    passed at the recent statewide convention calling for the repeal of
    the National Park Service gun ban on its website. It is on the right
    side of the home page under "Resources." [PVC: Dennis, VCDL VP Jim
    Snyder, and others attended the Republican Convention and pressed for
    this issue to be adopted!]

    6. Who needs a gun in a restaurant?

    Thanks to Dale Welch for the link. But how can this be? The Virginia
    Restaurant Association is always assuring the General Assembly that
    such things don't happen!:
    Vienna Inn worker injured in stabbing
    Associated Press - July 26, 2008 9:05 PM ET

    VIENNA, Va. (AP) - Police have arrested a Vienna man who allegedly
    stabbed an area restaurant worker.

    Police say they received a call about 2:45 a.m. Saturday from an
    employee of Vienna Inn on Maple Avenue, reporting he had been
    assaulted. Officials found the 38-year-old man bleeding and took him
    to a local hospital, where he was in intensive care.

    Police say 21-year-old Jaimea Espinal of Vienna has been charged with
    aggravated malicious wounding in the incident.

    7. Heller, others challenge semi-automatic ban
    Tuesday, July 29, 2008
    Heller, others challenge semi-automatic ban
    David C. Lipscomb (Contact)

    Three D.C. residents backed by one of the country's most influential
    pro-gun organizations Monday filed a challenge to the District's ban
    on semi-automatic handguns. The plaintiffs said city officials are
    flouting a recent Supreme Court decision that struck down the city's
    32-year-old gun ban.

    Lead attorney Stephen P. Halbrook and the National Rifle Association,
    which is financing the case, say the District's definition of a
    machine gun is too vague and unfairly prohibits residents from using
    the guns for home defense.

    "D.C. has stuck to its position that semi-automatic guns are machine
    guns," Mr. Halbrook said. "It's a crazy definition of machine gun."

    The plaintiffs in the case, filed in U.S. District Court, include Dick
    Anthony Heller, the respondent in the case of District of Columbia v.
    Heller that addressed the city's ban.

    The others are Amy McVey, the first D.C. resident to register a
    handgun after the ban was struck down, and Absalom F. Jordan Jordan
    Jr., a plaintiff in Seegars v. Ashcroft. The case challenged the
    Justice Department on the gun ban at about the time Mr. Heller was
    involved with the lower court Parker v. District case in 2003.

    Gun rights advocates pounced immediately on the District's law against
    semi-automatic handguns after the June 26 ruling by the Supreme Court.

    The city's law defines a machine gun as "any firearm which shoots
    automatically or semiautomatically more than 12 shots without

    The definition prohibits the majority of semi-automatic handguns
    regardless of how many rounds they are designed to hold because they
    can theoretically hold modified higher-capacity magazines.

    Gun advocates say the District should revise the definition to use
    wording closer to the federal definition of a machine gun, which
    requires a gun to be capable of firing more than one shot with a
    single trigger pull.

    D.C. interim Attorney General Peter J. Nickles said he expected the
    lawsuit but thinks the District's definition of a machine gun is
    acceptable and intends to fight the challenge.

    "I don't think you can satisfy the Heller folks unless you have a law
    or regulation that says you can keep a loaded handgun in your home at
    all times," he said. [PVC - So, what's wrong with that? Nickles can
    do that today in his home in Virginia, but he doesn't want District
    residents to have the same right. I guess Nickles and the District's
    leadership believe that District residents are so savage and
    irresponsible that they should be kept as second class citizens.]

    NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanadam said restrictions on handguns leave
    residents at a disadvantage and will not prevent crime.

    "The biggest losers are the law-abiding residents of the District of
    Columbia," he said. "The laws are not going to stop the criminals."

    D.C. Council member Phil Mendelson, at-large Democrat, introduced bare-
    bones emergency legislation July 1 to outline the District's new rules
    on registering handguns. The council passed a heftier, updated version
    July 15, and gun registration began two days later. That bill is in
    effect for 90 days while the council works on permanent legislation.

    Mendelson spokesman Jason Shedlock said Mr. Mendelson reviewed the
    complaint and intends to address concerns about the District's gun
    laws when the council returns from recess in September. However, he
    still has the option to convene a special session of the council's
    public-safety committee.

    "It raises a number of important points that he wants to address
    quickly over the next few months," Mr. Shedlock said. "The emergency
    legislation was not meant to be comprehensive. It was meant as a

    The plaintiffs are also challenging the rule that allows the chief of
    police to set the cost of registration, which Mr. Halbrook says
    improperly gives the chief power over who is allowed to exercise their
    Second Amendment right.

    The complaint also challenges the District's safe-storage provisions
    that require handguns to be disassembled or trigger locked and
    unloaded until they are being used against a "threat of immediate
    harm." Gun advocacy groups say the provision leaves residents
    susceptible to attack while they are trying to prepare their weapons.

    8. Woman gun owner sues DC Mayor Fenty

    Well, all I can say to Amy McVey is, "YOU GO GIRL!!!" She's now suing
    DC Mayor Fenty over his trying to dodge the U.S. Supreme Court's
    ruling on DC vs Heller: [PDF]

    ABSALOM F. JORDAN, JR., and )
    AMY McVEY, )
    Plaintiffs )
    and )
    ADRIAN M. FENTY, Mayor, )
    District of Columbia, ))
    Defendants )
    (For Declaratory Judgment, Injunctive Relief, and Writ of Mandamus)

    1. This is an action to vindicate the right of residents of the
    District of Columbia to to keep and bear arms under the Second
    Amendment to the United States Constitution, which guarantees the
    right of law-abiding citizens to keep commonly-possessed handguns,
    including semiautomatic pistols, and other firearms in the home for
    immediate defense of their families and other lawful purposes. Parties

    2. Plaintiff Dick Anthony Heller is a resident of the District of
    Columbia and a citizen of the United States. 2

    3. Plaintiff Absalom F. Jordan, Jr. is a resident of the District of
    Columbia and a citizen of the United States.

    4. Plaintiff Amy McVey is a resident of the District of Columbia and a
    citizen of the United States.

    9. Police release horrific cold-blooded robbery/murder video in order
    to find suspect

    Member Jeff Buchanan writes:

    Reason #999,998,525,488 to carry a concealed handgun....(as if we
    needed another)

    Yes, she was murdered. First, she is shot in the upper right arm;
    notice the wound as it appears on her biceps and her verbal response
    to the pain. I think her screams are the worst I've ever heard. The
    fatal gunshot to her head was edited out so the video could be used by
    the local news in an attempt to ID the perpetrator. Gun-grabbers claim
    concealed carry is unnecessary if we'll just comply with the
    criminals' demands and give them want they want; tell that to her
    recently-widowed husband.

    [PVC: CAUTION - This is very graphic! But I think you should realize
    what kind of monsters are walking our streets. The only way you will
    live if you are unlucky enough to run into a creature like the one in
    the video is if you are armed and take action.]

    10. Dems seek deal with NRA on DC gun laws

    Why does the word "deal" and "NRA" always make my antenna go up? We're
    going to have to look at the bill VERY closely.
    Reps. Tanner and Dingell seek to strike deal with NRA
    By Mike Soraghan

    Democratic lawmakers and leaders are hoping to work out a compromise
    as early as this week with the National Rifle Association (NRA) on
    legislation to further loosen gun laws in the District of Columbia.

    Reps. John Tanner (D-Tenn.) and John Dingell (D-Mich.) are working
    with the gun-lobbying group to head off a discharge petition filed
    last week that would bypass committee to bring a D.C. gun bill
    directly to the floor.

    "Dingell and Tanner are going to negotiate a compromise with the NRA
    and then show it to the leadership," said a Democratic aide.

    The NRA has threatened to make the signing the petition a "key vote."
    That means that Democrats in favor of gun rights who don't buck
    leadership to sign it could see their NRA rating suffer.

    Some Republicans are angered that the NRA, considered one of the most
    powerful and effective lobbying operations in Washington, is
    negotiating with Democrats rather than holding their feet to the fire.
    One aide called the strategy "naive."

    But the NRA has reason to bargain, too. The group wants a victory to
    follow up on the Supreme Court ruling rejecting the District's ban on
    handguns. But it is running out of time on the legislative calendar.
    There is only one day, Sept. 22, left on which a discharge bill can be
    forced to the floor, and Democrats could sidestep it procedurally by
    canceling votes that day.

    In addition, if Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) is elected president,
    conservative Democrats such as the members of the Blue Dog Coalition
    are one of the few legislative bulwarks against Democratic attempts to
    further regulate guns.

    Spokesmen for the NRA and Tanner did not return messages seeking
    comment. Dingell's office said there was no change from a statement
    last week that called the situation "very fluid."

    Rep. Mark Souder (R-Ind.) filed the discharge petition last Thursday
    to bring a bill by Rep. Mike Ross (D-Ark.), a Blue Dog leader, to the
    floor. The bill, drafted before the June court ruling, would erase
    some of the district's remaining gun laws.

    One hundred and nine GOP members have signed the petition. Ross's bill
    has 247 co-sponsors, including 56 Democrats.

    But even if Souder gets the 218 signatures needed to force the bill to
    the floor, it will be difficult to get a vote. After the threshold is
    met, Souder must wait seven legislative days. Then, rules say
    discharges can only be done on the second and fourth Mondays of the
    month. That leaves only Sept. 22 for a vote on the gun bill. But the
    majority can avoid a vote by not going into session on that Monday.

    Signing a discharge petition is considered a slap at party leaders.
    But if Democrats knew there wouldn't be a floor vote, they might be
    able to sign the discharge petition with impunity.

    Which leaves negotiations. One possible element of a compromise would
    include allowing District residents to buy guns in Virginia and
    Maryland and transport them home. Currently, there are no licensed gun
    dealers in the District, so there is no legal way for residents to get
    a gun to their home.

    11. Online petition in DC to repeal semi-auto ban

    Pass this on to anyone who you know lives in DC or owns a business
    there. Remember, this petition is for District residents and business
    owners ONLY. You will be removed from the petition if you do not have
    a District address:

    To: DC City Council and Mayor Fenty

    From: Residents & Business Owners of the District of Columbia

    SUBJECT: Petition seeking repeal of the DC semi-automatic handgun ban

    We believe that all persons who may lawfully own a handgun in the
    District of Columbia have the Constitutional right to own the same
    ordinary handguns as all other Americans may now own in every state,
    i.e, semi-automatic handguns.

    The following facts are not in dispute:

    1. On June 26, 2008 the United States Supreme Court held "that the
    District's ban on handgun possession in the home violates the Second
    Amendment, as does its prohibition against rendering any lawful
    firearm in the home operable for the purpose of immediate self-
    defense." District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. ___, ___, slip op.
    at 64 (2008); and,

    2. Within hours of the Supreme Court's ruling, and subsequently on
    many occasions, DC Attorney General Peter Nickels and DC Police Chief
    Cathy Lanier have exhibited both Contempt of Court and our
    Constitution by declaring that residents of the District would not be
    permitted to own semi-automatic handguns; but,

    3. In open court, Assistant Attorneys General have told the Honorable
    Judges of the DC Superior Court that the DC Office of Attorney General
    does "not yet have a position" on whether to dismiss the pending
    criminal cases against semi-automatic handgun owners; and,

    4. The United States Supreme Court has said that the Second Amendment
    protects the sorts of weapons "in common use at the time," District of
    Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. ___, ___, slip op. at 55 (2008); and,

    5. It would be "frivolous" to claim that only handguns in existence in
    the 19th century, i.e., revolvers, "are protected by the Second
    Amendment," see District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. ___, ___,
    slip op. at 8 (2008); and,

    6. The United States Department of Justice reports that, by a 3 to 1
    margin for decades, Americans prefer semi-automatic pistols over
    revolvers, see,
    , and; and,

    7. Many consumers prefer semi-automatic handguns on safety grounds
    because these guns, unlike revolvers, usually offer a "mechanical
    safety" and are impossible for small children to load because of the
    strength, dexterity, and knowledge required to rack the slide and
    chamber a round; and,

    8. That it is well known that both the DC Police Department and DC
    criminals prefer and have acquired semi-automatic handguns; and,

    9. DC taxpayers will ultimately have to pay the attorneys' fees of
    civil rights litigants who will sue the District to overturn the semi-
    auto ban; yet, incredibly,

    10. The City Council has passed emergency legislation re-affirming the
    unconstitutional ban on ownership of semi-automatic handguns by law
    abiding citizens.

    THEREFORE, we DEMAND that the District of Columbia City Council and
    Mayor REPEAL the DC semi-automatic handgun ban that unconstitutionally
    bars DC residents from owning the ordinary handguns now in common use
    across America.


    The undersigned RESIDENTS & BUSINESS OWNERS of the District of Columbia:

    12. Morton Grove handgun ban: another one bites the dust

    The DC vs Heller Supreme Court decision is causing gun-banning
    Illinois cities to rethink those bans!
    Morton Grove repeals 27-year-old gun ban

    By Robert Channick

    Special to the Chicago Tribune

    11:07 PM CDT, July 28, 2008

    Morton Grove's landmark handgun ban, imposed 27 years ago, died
    quietly Monday night, as the suburb's Village Board bowed to a new
    legal reality and repealed the ordinance.

    The board's 5-1 vote came in response to last month's ruling by a
    divided U.S. Supreme Court that struck down a similar ban. The high
    court ruled that the 2nd Amendment protects a person's right to own a
    firearm for self-defense.

    Fighting in court to try to keep the law would cost money the village
    does not have, officials said.

    "I appreciate the courage the board [showed] in 1981 in a noble
    experiment," Trustee Dan Staackmann said. "[But] we don't have the
    resources to fight this all the way."

    Trustee Georgianne Brunner cast the lone vote against the repeal. "We
    may be acting a little bit in haste," she said. "I'm just grateful for
    what they did in 1981, and I wish we could just take a step back and
    wait it out."

    Morton Grove adopted the nation's first ordinance banning the
    possession of handguns in 1981, triggering a storm of publicity and a
    nationwide debate over the merits of using local ordinances to control
    gun ownership. The ordinance was upheld in 1984 by the Illinois
    Supreme Court.

    The move to repeal the ban attracted little controversy, Village
    Administrator Joe Wade said. Only a few residents came to a meeting
    earlier this month, when the repeal was first on the agenda. The
    opinions were fairly evenly split, Wade said.

    "Really, there hasn't been too much interest in the community," Wade

    Morton Grove was among Illinois communities sued by the National Rifle
    Association the day after the Supreme Court decision was announced.
    Officials said the impetus for the repeal was the court's decision,
    not the suit.

    At the Morton Grove meeting, Peggy Friewer, 56, who said her father
    was mayor when the ban was enacted, told the board that she was "very
    saddened that you would even consider amending the ordinance.

    13. Chicago lays out handgun legal strategy
    Chicago lays out handgun legal strategy
    July 25, 2008 | 5:01 PM

    The City of Chicago is planning to defend its handgun ban with a
    highly technical legal argument that some law scholars say isn't
    likely to fly.

    Mara Georges, the city's chief lawyer, appeared before aldermen
    yesterday pledging to "vigorously" defend Chicago's 1982 handgun

    The city is currently facing two suits in district court challenging
    that ban in the aftermath of a June 26 Supreme Court decision that
    threw out a handgun ban in Washington, D.C.

    In that case, the court ruled for the first time that the Second
    Amendment provides a right for individuals to bear arms.

    Georges says the city is likely to argue that the court's decision
    applies only in Washington, a federal territory, and not to the states.

    "The opinion does not say that the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms
    applies to states or municipalities," says Georges.

    Some experts say that argument will face tough scrutiny in court.

    "If I were making policy recommendations to the City of Chicago, it
    would be back off this real fast, and just get rid of it before it
    gets into court," says Harry Wilson, a political science professor at
    Roanoke College in Virginia, and author of Guns, Gun Control and

    Wilson says if the city followed that path, officials could replace
    the current comprehensive ban with limited gun restrictions that would
    pass muster in court.

    "There are lots of less extreme restrictions on ownership and
    possession that would be upheld," he says.

    University of Chicago law professor Geoffrey Stone also says the
    city's argument may run into trouble.

    "It's more likely than not that the Court will end up saying that the
    Second Amendment governs the states," he says.

    When the Bill of Rights was first created, the intention was to
    provide people with rights only against the federal government, Stone

    Over the years, those protections have been extended to the states
    under a legal theory known as the doctrine of incorporation.

    Georges says the city is on strong legal ground in defending its ban,
    citing three Supreme Court decisions holding that the Second Amendment
    is not incorporated.

    Stone says there are plausible reasons why the court might not extend
    Second Amendment rights to states and cities.

    It's possible, he says that the court might not find the right to bear
    arms equal in importance to the right to freedom of religion or the
    right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures.

    However, most of the rights found in the first ten amendments have
    been extended to states and cities.

    Georges allows that the same could eventually happen with the right to
    bear arms.

    "I anticipate that at some time this could have an impact on our gun
    control laws," says Georges. "But that would not be, at least in my
    legal opinion, for a while."

    Meanwhile, she says, the city is prepared to take its case all the way
    to the Supreme Court if necessary.

    "We would like to be the test case to be able to present our
    argument," she says.

    Richard Pearson, executive director of the Illinois State Rifle
    Association, says he expects the city's strategy to fall short.

    "The Supreme Court does say it [gun ownership] is an individual
    right," says Pearson. "Regardless of whether that individual is in an
    area governed by the federal government or a municipality, it is still
    an individual right."

    14. LTE: Semi-automatic guns are not assault rifles
    Semi-Automatic Guns Are Not Assault Rifles

    Editor, Times-Dispatch:

    In response to Kevin McGowan's challenge ["Who Needs an Assault
    Rifle?"] to name any reason for possession of an assault rifle, a few
    things should be addressed. The weapon allegedly used in the recent
    Powhatan shooting, assuming it looked like an AK-47, is almost
    certainly a common semi-automatic version. AK-47s do exist, but as
    machine guns, they are controlled by the National Firearms Act of 1934
    and have very strict requirements for possession. This leaves us with
    the question then of who needs a reliable, inexpensive carbine for
    which ammunition is plentiful and cheap? Evidently quite a few people
    in the U.S. Whether it looks like a real AK-47 or not is of no

    What the Supreme Court recently recognized is not really all sorted
    out yet, but apparently the ruling is that the Second Amendment holds
    for the individual rather than the state, and that is viewed as a
    positive assertion by those who own guns. Since the semi-automatic
    carbine in question is like any other self-loading carbine, rifle, or
    shotgun in operation, it is unlikely that any future interpretation of
    this ruling would be able to exclude it. There are many uses for this
    type carbine, including recreational and target shooting, hunting, and
    home and property defense.

    The use of this type of firearm in crimes is rather small and should
    not be used against law-abiding gun owners. If this class of weapon
    were not available, some other weapon would be used to commit crimes.
    There does not seem to be any point in the harangues against one kind
    of carbine that looks like a real assault rifle.

    Gary Hartle. Chester.

    15. Who needs a gun in a church? (TN)
    Gunman Kills 2, Injures 7 in Tennessee Church Shooting
    By KSPR News
    By Joanna Small

    Story Created: Jul 28, 2008
    Story Updated: Jul 28, 2008

    A shooting at a Tennessee church service this morning has left two
    dead and seven others injured.

    According to witnesses, a man pulled out a 12 gauge shotgun and began
    firing during the Sunday morning service at Tennessee Valley Unitarian
    Church in Knoxville.

    Church members were able to tackle the gunman, who has been identified
    as 58-year-old Jim Adkisson. He's being held on a $1 million bond.

    University of Tennessee Medical Center officials confirm seven of the
    victims were brought there. A 60-year-old man died on the scene. The
    Associated Press is reporting a second person, one of those
    transported to the hospital, has also died.

    16. Unitarian Universalists: if only we could've banned guns

    EM Hal Macklin writes:

    How can this be? These churches are Gun-Free Zones!
    An excerpt of the Unitarian Universalist 1991 General Resolution on
    Gun Control:

    BECAUSE Unitarian Universalists affirm the inherent worth of every
    human life; and

    BECAUSE safe coexistence within society requires reasonable compromise
    with the concept of absolute personal liberty; and

    WHEREAS the General Assembly of the Unitarian Universalist Association
    passed, in 1972, a resolution advocating mandatory licensing for the
    purchase and possession of all usable guns and, in 1976, a resolution
    urging the passage of legislation restricting the ownership or
    possession of handguns;

    WHEREAS machine guns and semi-automatic and automatic assault weapons
    are highly powerful weapons designed for the efficient destruction of

    THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Unitarian Universalist Association,
    its member congregations, and individual Unitarian Universalists be
    encouraged to petition legislators to enact and support laws such as:

    1. the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1991 (HR7) in the
    United States, which is intended to place nationally uniform,
    effective limitations on individual possession of

    2. handguns, including waiting periods, licensing, and registration;

    3. the "Mitchell Compromise"; and

    4. Bill C-80 (1991) in Canada, which is intended to make the purchase
    of firearms more difficult;

    BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Unitarian Universalist Association,
    its member congregations, and individual Unitarian Universalists be
    urged to petition legislators to include safety training programs as a
    mandatory condition that must be met before firearms can be owned and
    used; and

    BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED that the Unitarian Universalist Association,
    its member congregations, and individual Unitarian Universalists in
    the United States be urged to petition legislators to ***enact and
    support laws banning private ownership or use of machine guns and semi-
    automatic and automatic assault weapons***. (emphasis added)

    17. TN sheriff appointing citizens as "Special Church Deputies"

    Thanks to Chris Gosgriff for the link. Now THIS is MY kind of sheriff!:
    Tennessee Sheriff Creating "Special Church Deputies"

    Bradley County Sheriff's Office Press Release
    August 01, 2008

    BRADLEY COUNTY, TN - President Teddy Roosevelt said, "If I must choose
    between righteousness and peace, I choose righteousness."

    As sheriff, I take my duty of protecting the citizens of our community
    to heart. As a man of faith, I am especially sensitive to any action
    that diminishes one's ability to worship in freedom without fear of
    any aggressor.

    Therefore, in light of increased incidents of violence perpetrated
    against churches across the nation, I am using the powers of my office
    to establish the BCSO Special Deputy Church Protection Program for
    Bradley County. I am doing so to enhance a church's ability to protect
    and defend the sanctity of their worship against armed intrusion and/
    or attack on church premises prior to the arrival of full-time law
    enforcement upon the scene

    As sheriff, I have the authority to appoint special deputies who are
    assigned specific law enforcement functions, whether working alone or
    with full-time deputy sheriffs.

    Special deputies working in the BCSO Special Deputy Church Protection
    Program must meet all the same minimum qualifications as a full-time
    deputy sheriff, but are not required to attend a police academy. They
    must successfully complete a background investigation and required
    training hours each year to maintain their appointment.

    Any church desiring special deputies under this program must request
    the appointment of well-known, regularly attending members in good
    standing, who are trustworthy, mature and responsible. The church
    elders or other church governing body must sponsor the candidates in
    writing. Because of training requirements this program is currently
    limited to two participants per church and the organization must meet
    501(c)(3) requirements. The church must have a physical meeting
    location for at least the last 12 months and an attendance of at least
    50 people. The BCSO will make the final determination as to acceptance
    into this program.

    I believe in the right of the innocent to defend themselves. That is
    why I am giving area churches this opportunity.

    For more information and to obtain an application packet contact the
    BCSO at 423-728-7300, download the application packet from the
    "Volunteer Programs" section on our web-site at, or come by Justice Center.

    18. SF Mayor blames NRA for triple homicide by illegal alien

    Thanks to David Neal for the link:

    I'm questioning future visits to San Francisco until this idiot Gavin
    Newsom is out of office. He actually smiles as he says the NRA is
    against "anything that restricts the opportunity for a guy who gets
    cut off in traffic from pulling out a hand gun and almost
    assassinating an entire family, as was the case a few days ago in San
    Francisco, where three people were gunned down. That somehow that is
    appropriate and wonderful and that person celebrated his freedom to
    carry a loaded pistol".

    Is he nuts? He's trying to pin the drive-by, mid-day, Sunday
    afternoon, gang-land style attack and murder of a father and his two
    sons on the National Rifle Association.

    [Update July 25] Newsom video courtesy A Keyboard and a .45 and The
    Real Gun Guys.

    Here's the original story on and here is the video. In short,
    some gang-banger types murdered three innocent people and drove off.
    Anthony, Matthew and Michael Bologna were killed.

    The guy charged, 21-year-old Edwin Ramos, is being held without bail.
    Of course, Ramos' attorney says he's a fine young man, but then the
    video report goes on to say that his client (Ramos) may be a member of
    the notorious MS13 gang. Yeah, a fine young man indeed.

    It gets better. HotAir and Fox News reports that Ramos was an illegal
    alien and he had two previous felony convictions. Megan Kelly from Fox
    News provides the reporting in this video.

    I'm not too familiar with what the city of San Francisco is doing to
    thwart crime, but I do know that the City by the Bay has the some of
    the most restrictive handgun laws in the country.

    A city ordinance prohibits possession of any gun if you live in public
    housing. (Who says Republicans treat those in public housing as second-
    class citizens?) Those who do own firearms, must keep them in lock
    boxes or use trigger locks. The NRA just filed suit to fight the
    public housing ordinance.

    San Francisco does not issue carry permits - unless you are a judge or
    a government official.

    In November of 2006, San Francisco's Proposition H - which passed and
    had intended to make it illegal to own or possess a handgun in the
    city - was tossed out by a Superior Court judge.

    So Mayor Newsom, if Edwin Ramos did it, how many San Francisco laws
    was he breaking already? How can you justify more laws that will not

    Where do you get off blaming the NRA? Criminals and gang members do
    not care at all about the extra laws or outright bans that you put on
    the books to make citizens feel better. They are criminals. Do you
    think they will turn in the tools of their trade just because you pass
    another, more restrictive law?

    You're an IDIOT. I blame you for these murders mayor. You promote San
    Francisco as a sanctuary city and you should pay. These criminal low-
    lifes seem to have full immunity in your city.

    Let law obiding citizens take appropriate training, buy firearms and
    carry concealed. Maybe only 1 percent of the San Francisco citizens
    would carry - but watch the crime rate fall.

    Criminals want to operate in target rich areas. If they knew there was
    a possibility that a trained citizen with a SIG P239 DAK in .40
    caliber was around the corner, they just might elect to not commit a
    crime or move elsewhere.

    See-Dubya has more over at Malkin's place.

    19. DHS chairman may pursue federal firearm restrictions at airports

    The leaders of the Nanny-State want a federal prohibition on the
    otherwise lawful carry of handguns in the NON-STERILE areas of airport
    terminals. Virginia already bans such carry in our larger airports -
    something that we need to overturn.

    See <> for the list of Virginia
    airports where gun carry is prohibited in terminals.

    Thanks to Bill Albritton for the link:
    The Complete Information Resource for the Security Industry
    Updated: July 25th, 2008 10:15 AM EDT
    State's gun law raises airport security concerns
    Homeland Security chairman may pursue federal firearm restrictions
    Associated Press WorldStream
    via NewsEdge Corporation

    WASHINGTON_The chairman of the House of Representatives Homeland
    Security Committee says he might pursue new federal gun restrictions
    in response to a recently enacted Georgia law that could allow people
    to carry concealed firearms in parts of the airport at the state
    capital, Atlanta.

    Apparently surprised that some airports long have allowed guns in
    unsecured areas, Democratic Rep. Bennie Thompson said the new Georgia
    legislation represents a significant hole in national security and a
    threat to travelers.

    He asked the Transportation Security Administration to clarify federal
    law governing weapons in areas outside security checkpoints. In a
    Monday letter to TSA Assistant Secretary Kip Hawley, Thompson said his
    "committee may seek legislative action to correct this omission" if
    there are no restrictions.

    TSA spokesman Christopher White said Tuesday that since no federal
    prohibitions apply to areas outside security checkpoints, the agency
    follows local regulations. He said he did not know how many airports
    allow firearms and would not say whether the agency has a position on
    the matter, maintaining that it is focused on keeping guns from
    getting through security.

    "We work within the framework of local laws," he said.

    At issue in Georgia is a new law signed by Republican Gov. Sonny
    Perdue this year that allows residents who have passed criminal
    background checks to carry concealed weapons onto mass transit, as
    well as into state parks and restaurants that serve alcohol. The law
    took effect July 1.

    A legal battle quickly erupted over whether the law applies to public
    areas of Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport before travelers
    pass through security checkpoints. The airport is the busiest in the
    United States.

    On the day the law took effect, Atlanta officials who oversee the
    airport declared it a "gun-free zone" and said anyone carrying a gun
    there could be arrested and charged with a misdemeanor. Atlanta Mayor
    Shirley Franklin argued that allowing guns could endanger people
    because airports remain attractive targets for terrorists.

    Gun rights supporters filed a federal lawsuit challenging the
    designation, saying the airport qualifies as mass transportation and
    has restaurants that should be accessible under the new law.

    Sean Broderick, spokesman for the American Association of Airport
    Executives, also said he did not know how many airports allow
    handguns. Andrew Arulanandam, a National Rifle Association spokesman,
    said he thinks guns are at least partially allowed on airport grounds
    in most states.

    The Dallas-Forth Worth International Airport, for example, allows
    weapons in areas outside checkpoints. The Washington area's Reagan
    National and Dulles International airports eased rules several years
    ago to allow weapons on grounds and parking lots, but not in terminals
    and other buildings that access airfields.

    Hartsfield spokesman Herschel Grangent said airport and TSA officials
    were slated to meet late Tuesday on the guns issue.

    20. Who needs a gun on a bus? (Canada)

    So, you think there is safety in numbers?

    Thank again. Not if all those "numbers" are unarmed.
    Police tape: Canada bus killer ate victim's flesh

    By CHARMAINE NORONHA - 13 hours ago

    TORONTO (AP) -- A police officer at the scene of a grisly beheading on
    a Canadian bus reported seeing the attacker hacking off pieces of the
    victim's body and eating them, according to a police tape leaked on
    the Internet Saturday.

    In the tape of radio transmissions, a Royal Canadian Mounted Police
    officer refers to the attacker as "Badger" and says he is armed with a
    knife and scissors and is "defiling the body at the front of the bus
    as we speak."

    On the tape, which lasts about 80 seconds, officers continue to detail
    the attacker's movements until one reports, "Badger's at the back of
    the bus, hacking off pieces and eating it."

    The RCMP described the tapes as "operational police communications
    and, as such, are not meant for public consumption." Police said
    permission had not been given to use the radio transmission, which was
    posted on and picked up by other Web sites.

    Officers were responding to a desolate stretch of the TransCanada
    Highway about 12 miles from Portage La Prairie, Manitoba, after the
    bloody attack late Wednesday on the bus traveling from Edmonton,
    Alberta to Winnipeg, Manitoba.

    Vince Weiguang Li, 40, faces second-degree murder charges for the
    murder of a 22-year-old man, who friends and family identified as Tim
    McLean. Police have not confirmed the victim's identity.

    Passengers said they had just reboarded the bus following a break when
    the suspect -- for no apparent reason -- stabbed the man sitting next
    to him dozens of times as passengers fled in horror. He then severed
    the man's head, displayed it and began hacking at the body.

    Li's employer said in an interview Saturday that he was shocked to
    learn that his "model employee" had been accused of the grisly attack.
    Vincent Augert, an independent contractor who distributes newspapers
    in Edmonton, said that Li was one of his most reliable carriers.

    "He was very punctual and always cleanly dressed," he told The
    Associated Press. "He was a very nice, polite guy. We would've had no
    reason to let him go before all this happened."

    Augert said Li had worked for him since last July and caused no

    "I had no odd suspicions about him at all," said Augert.

    Augert said that Li called him two weeks ago to say he needed a day or
    two off to go to Winnipeg for a job interview at the end of July. He
    said Li called him back and left a message with the dates, but never
    followed up after that.

    "That was unusual for him not to call back and then when he didn't
    show up for work on Tuesday we got worried," said Augert, who said it
    was sometimes difficult to understand Li because he spoke quickly and
    had a strong Chinese accent.

    Augert said he called Li's cell phone on Thursday and his wife
    answered. She told him that she hadn't heard from Li, who had told her
    he had to leave for a few days because of a family emergency.

    Li, who shuffled into a courtroom Friday in Portage la Prairie with
    his head bowed and feet shackled, appeared before the court without a
    lawyer. He did not reply when the judge asked him whether he was going
    to get a lawyer, and only nodded slightly when asked whether he was
    exercising his right not to speak. He was not required to enter a plea.

    The prosecutor asked for a psychiatric assessment, but the judge said
    he wanted to give Li a chance to meet with his lawyer. Li's next court
    appearance is scheduled for Tuesday. The RCMP said Li has no known
    criminal record.

    McLean's family spoke publicly Saturday for the first time since the
    brutal attack.

    "He was a little guy with a heart bigger than you could know,"
    McLean's uncle, Alex McLean, told reporters in a prepared statement
    from the family.

    "Tim spent his life traveling and meeting new people and always saw
    the good in everyone. He had the most infectious giggle. You could
    hear him laughing a mile away," said Alex McLean.

    "It didn't matter what kind of a day you were having, because when you
    heard him laugh, you couldn't help but join in."

    William Caron, 23, said McLean was quiet, though he liked to socialize
    with friends. He was small -- about 5-foot-4 and 130 pounds -- and
    tended to stay away from a fight, Caron said.

    "All the time I've known Tim, he's never been the type of guy to get
    into a fight with. He always kept to himself when there's strangers
    around," Caron said.

    The killing has spawned a vast online community, with tens of
    thousands showing support for McLean's family and expressing disgust
    for the attack.

    One of the many groups on the social networking site Facebook has
    accumulated over 40,000 members with more than 2,000 wall posts.

    "It's something right out of a horror movie," said Sheena in Edmonton.

    21. Washington Post writer a novelist too

    Member Bill Mixon writes:

    As always, I truly enjoyed the 7/29/08 update. I was especially
    intrigued by item number 7, "Washington Post places guns for self-
    defense in practical context." (

    In case our members are not aware, Stephen Hunter is, in addition to
    being a staff writer with the Post, an exceptional writer of novels. I
    have read every one he has written and HIGHLY recommend them. Those
    into guns will be hooked once they have read their first one, I assure
    you. I always thought he was pro-2nd Amendment and this article seems
    to add proof to that feeling. By the way, the recent movie "Shooter"
    was based on one of his books.

    22. Gun shows and events!

    As an all volunteer organization, VCDL depends on YOU to volunteer
    your time at our area events, where we recruit new activists and keep
    gun owners informed. No experience necessary; if it's your first time
    we'll pair you with a veteran volunteer. To find out more about
    helping at our gun show tables, go to:

    and click on any of the blue links, or contact the coordinator for the
    show/event listed below with which you are interested in helping.

    Here are the upcoming events with which we need YOUR help:

    a. RICHMOND, August 9-10

    Saturday, August 9 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
    Sunday, August 10 9:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m. 12:30 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

    Contact Audrey Muehleisen at to help at the
    Richmond Raceway Complex.

    b. ROANOKE, August 16-17

    Saturday, August 16 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
    Sunday, August 17 9:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m. 12:30 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

    Please contact Al Steed, Jr. at to help in


    Friday, August 22 12:00 p.m. - 4:00 p.m. 4:00 p.m. - 8:00 p.m.
    Saturday, August 23 10:00 a.m. - 3:00 p.m. 3:00 p.m. - 8:00 p.m.
    Sunday, August 24 10:00 a.m. - 2:00 p.m. 2:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m.

    The VCDL table is being paid for again by Grahme Anderson, Empire
    Siding And Windows, Roanoke. Please contact Al Steed, Jr. at
    to help at this big show in Salem.

    d. HARRISONBURG, August 23-24

    Saturday, August 23 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
    Sunday, August 24 10:00 a.m. - 1:30 p.m. 1:30 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.

    Please contact Bob Schmidt at to help in

    e. NORFOLK, September 6-7

    Saturday, September 6 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
    Sunday, September 7 10:00 a.m. - 1:30 p.m. 1:30 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.

    Please contact Ron and Jean Hyson at to
    help at the Norfolk Scope.

    f. CHANTILLY, September 12-14

    Friday, September 12 3:00 p.m. - 8:00 p.m.
    Saturday, September 13 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
    Sunday, September 14 10:00 a.m. - 1:30 p.m. 1:30 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.

    Please contact our Northern Virginia coordinator at
    to help in Chantilly.

    g. HAMPTON, September 20-21

    Saturday, September 20 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
    Sunday, September 21 10:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

    Please contact Ron Lilly at to help in

    h. DALE CITY, October 4-5

    Saturday, October 4 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
    Sunday, October 5 9:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m. 12:30 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

    Please contact TJ Parmele at to help in Dale City.

    i. SALEM, October 4-5

    Saturday, October 4 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
    Sunday, October 5 10:00 a.m. - 1:30 p.m. 1:30 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.

    Please contact Al Steed, Jr. at to help in Salem.

    j. VIRGINIA BEACH, October 11-12

    Saturday, October 11 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
    Sunday, October 12 10:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

    Please contact Ron and Jean Hyson at to
    help in Virginia Beach.

    k. RICHMOND, October 18-19

    Saturday, October 18 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
    Sunday, October 19 10:00 a.m. - 1:30 p.m. 1:30 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.

    Contact Audrey Muehleisen at to help at the
    Showplace in Mechanicsville.

    l. FREDERICKSBURG, October 25-26

    Saturday, October 25 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
    Sunday, October 26 10:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

    Contact Robert Herron at to help in

    m. ROANOKE, October 25-26

    Saturday, October 25 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
    Sunday, October 26 9:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m. 12:30 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

    Please contact Al Steed, Jr. at to help in

    n. DALE CITY, November 1-2

    Saturday, November 1 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
    Sunday, November 2 9:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m. 12:30 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

    Please contact our Northern Virginia coordinator at
    to help in Dale City.

    o. NORFOLK, November 1-2

    Saturday, November 1 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
    Sunday, November 2 10:00 a.m. - 1:30 p.m. 1:30 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.

    Please contact Ron and Jean Hyson at to
    help at the Norfolk Scope.

    p. RICHMOND, November 15-16

    Saturday, November 15 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
    Sunday, November 16 9:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m. 12:30 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

    Contact Audrey Muehleisen at to help at the
    Richmond Raceway Complex.

    q. CHANTILLY, November 21-23

    Friday, November 21 3:00 p.m. - 8:00 p.m.
    Saturday, November 22 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
    Sunday, November 23 10:00 a.m.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Virginia USA, ,

    Post imported post

    glad to see skidmark and i getting some props :-p

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA

    Post imported post

    W.E.G. quoted Phil as:
    A thread on on joining VCDL has a theme that I like -
    getting our members to sign up ONE NEW person. Just finding that ONE
    new member would DOUBLE our size in no time!
    Only One? ugh.. I have already signed up THREE!
    Carry On.


    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007

    Post imported post

    I got my dad to sign up last gun show, and I'll probably get my mom and brother to sign up at the next one!

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