Hoppin' mad at South Jordan

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I’m going to have my first OC LEO encounter soon and want some advice from the pros. South Jordan ticked me off with their toy gun ban and the attitude it conveys about gun owners, and so I want to OC at the South Jordan branch of the Salt Lake County Library. I expect that I will be the subject of a MWAG call and have my first LEO encounter shortly thereafter. What I don’t want is to get shot or arrested, so I’m asking for advice from you guys first.

Are there any laws at all that I might be prosecuted for? Any “disturbing the peace” or “inciting panic” or “domestic terrorism” or anything else they can get me on that you guys know of? I’ve got the state code, the Salt Lake County code and South Jordan City code to worry about. My understanding is that the library is publicly-funded and open to the public, so they can’t force me to leave or have me arrested for trespassing. Is that accurate?

What should I bring with me? A copy of the relevant state laws? Should I worry about having a recording device to record our conversations? Should I try to get someone else there with a video camera?

Any advice, suggestions, or input will be considered and appreciated.

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I have some advice for ya.

Don't go out looking for trouble! You will find it & it won't help our cause.:cuss:



Just sit back, take a deep breath & calm down for a minute.

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I agree with Mr. Magnum. I wouldn't go out looking to get into a LEO confrontation. I would suggest you write a letter to your city council or mayor. Also, I would find out when your city council meeting isand voice your opinion there. It is better to voice your opinion to the people who create the laws rather then who who just enforce the laws after they have been created.

PS - Just remember "Don't Taze Me Bro"

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Mr. Magnum wrote:

...Don't go out looking for trouble! You will find it & it won't help our cause...

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+1. But here is some good information just to have on hand: http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com/shared/Utah_Gun_Law.pdf if you don't already have a copy of MV's book.

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I agree with Magnum....that's just looking for trouble.

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Mr. Magnum wrote:

I have some advice for ya.

Don't go out looking for trouble! You will find it & it won't help our cause.:cuss:



Just sit back, take a deep breath & calm down for a minute.

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+1

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Mr. Magnum wrot

Don't go out looking for trouble! You will find it & it won't help our cause.:cuss:

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+++++++1.

If you just want to make a point then do it by yourself, offline. The new regs in S.Jordan have near NOTHING to do with OC of a real-live-kill-you-dead firearm. This forum is here for OC of real guns and the protection, use and advancement of those rights nation wide. Those who want help exercising their rights will be given help. Please correct me if I am wrong, but from your first post it sounds like you are just looking for trouble. I for one am not about helping anyone out of trouble they went looking for.

PS - OC is not looking for trouble. OC with the intention of creating/inducing a police encounter IS.

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Don't go out looking for trouble! You will find it & it won't help our cause.:cuss:

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I am not "looking for trouble" (a phrase I never used).I AM looking to make a political statement about South Jordan's new city ordinance. I think it's absurdfor a number of reasons. One of those absurdities is that I can carry a 'real-live-kill-you-dead firearm' but Airsoft 'guns' and paintball markers areto berestricted.

It is better to voice your opinion to the people who create the laws rather then who who just enforce the laws after they have been created.

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As or the creation of this law: it isaccurate thatthe ordinancewas actually voted on and approved by the city council (and I have voiced my opinion to them), but it was brought to them by the South Jordan PD and pushed through by the police chief and his department, over the objections of a number of citizens. The ordinance was actuallywritten by the police.I personally don't think the police, in their function as police officers, should be proposing laws, but that's a matter for a different discussion. The point is that I am 'voicing my opinion' through an expression that they are unlikely to be able to totally ignore, to the people who created this law.

I see this 'protest' as very close kin to what many of you do (perhaps a more assertive form, but not diametrically opposed). Many seem to carry for political reasons ('A right unexercised is a right lost') and to combat the perception among the public that only bad guys have guns. That's what this is about too.

While this law doesn't regulate real firearms per se, it does regulate things that look like firearms (reinforcing the 'evil gun' perception of much of society), and was proposed because the police received 15 MWAG calls since the beginning of 2007 relating to these firearm look-alikes (or not so look-alikes in the case of many paintball guns).

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I see where you're coming from. It's just the wayyou worded it doesn't look good. It is silly that I can carry a loaded 44mag but not a cap gun.:banghead:



But do indeed remember 76-10-500 if you proceed.

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SecondAmendmentStudents wrote:

I’m going to have my first OC LEO encounter soon... Iexpect that I will be the subject of a MWAG call and have my first LEO encounter shortly thereafter.

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IMO - You are looking for "trouble" ie. a "confrontation". If you have an issue that you would like to address with the police you should call and schedule a meeting or go to the police station to discuss it with them. I believe this is a more tactful way to approach itas opposed to "hoping" someone will call the police for MWAG and having an encounter that is already starting off the with police on the defense. And possibly delaying their response to a real situation. Just my .02

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OR:

(and this is just an 'OR')

he's foreshadowing events to come. Many have already posted that now law abiding citizen OCers will more than likely be stopped a bit more frequently regarding the possibility of carrying an Airsoft Gun.

...just tryin' to take a look from this guys balcony, is all.

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ProtectedBy9mm wrote:

OR:

(and this is just an 'OR')

he's foreshadowing events to come. Many have already posted that now law abiding citizen OCers will more than likely be stopped a bit more frequently regarding the possibility of carrying an Airsoft Gun.

...just tryin' to take a look from this guys balcony, is all.

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I totally understand where this guy is coming from. I just think it is better to take the issue directly to them. Odds are theLEOs responding toa MWAG callare not going to give a rats a$$ what he has to say about the toy gun law. IMO he would be better off talking to the police chief in a more relaxed setting.

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Bflamante wrote:

Mr. Magnum wrot

Don't go out looking for trouble! You will find it & it won't help our cause.:cuss:

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+++++++1.

If you just want to make a point then do it by yourself, offline. The new regs in S.Jordan have near NOTHING to do with OC of a real-live-kill-you-dead firearm. This forum is here for OC of real guns and the protection, use and advancement of those rights nation wide. Those who want help exercising their rights will be given help. Please correct me if I am wrong, but from your first post it sounds like you are just looking for trouble. I for one am not about helping anyone out of trouble they went looking for.

PS - OC is not looking for trouble. OC with the intention of creating/inducing a police encounter IS.

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and how I interpret origonal post, LOOKING FOR AN ENCOUNTER.

Baby steps, breathe.

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IF you are set on doing it, and your mind can't be changed, then you will need a packing list, so to speak.

Mitch Vilos' Utah Gun Law 3rd edition, should be in everyone's car.

A pamphlet containing The most important of Utah's Gun laws. ScottyT's comes to mind.

A voice recorder. Have it running whenever you get out of the car. Wal-mart has a good one for about $40

A non confrontational, and polite attitude.

Confidence.

A case to put your firearm in if you are in a school zone and don't have a Concealed carry permit.

A good quality retention holster.

Some time.

A firearm. This one aint optional

If you are going to OC in that city, you should have all of these.

And an attorney on retainer might not be a bad idea either.

That being said, don't do it solely for a conflict.

Maybe take a sign or something, that says My Real Gun is Legal, but not my Toy Gun

WTF?

Or something to that effect. Maybe a T-shirt.

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I recommend not doing it at all.

There are likely other local or state 2A issues upon which to focus your attention.

Pick your battles. Preferably ones where there are a number of you who can make a positive influence,for example an illegal local ordinance.

Going after a locality over atoy gun issue may not be a judicious use of your own time or talents.

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Citizen wrote:

I recommend not doing it at all.

There are likely other local or state 2A issues upon which to focus your attention.

Pick your battles. Preferably ones where there are a number of you who can make a positive influence,for example an illegal local ordinance.

Going after a locality over atoy gun issue may not be a judicious use of your own time or talents.

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+1

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ainokea wrote:

Citizen wrote:

I recommend not doing it at all.

There are likely other local or state 2A issues upon which to focus your attention.

Pick your battles. Preferably ones where there are a number of you who can make a positive influence,for example an illegal local ordinance.

Going after a locality over atoy gun issue may not be a judicious use of your own time or talents.

Click to expand...

+1

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+1...

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Citizen wrote:

I recommend not doing it at all.

There are likely other local or state 2A issues upon which to focus your attention.

Pick your battles. Preferably ones where there are a number of you who can make a positive influence,for example an illegal local ordinance.

Going after a locality over atoy gun issue may not be a judicious use of your own time or talents.

Click to expand...

+++++ANOTHER

You truly want to protest this-- go in there with a load of paintball guns strapped on!

and a couple of the good ol' fashioned cap guns w/ the red tips- (they still have them at Smith's and Walgreen's.

(JOKING------ Please don't everybody attack me)

I heard some of the news coverage on this--

Their problem also stems from kids shooting at vehicles and property--

This is FAR from reaching into OUR realm of concern.

My opinion---- WRONG BATTLE!

.45

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Agreed.

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I am wondering what would happen if you wore a real gun on one side, and a toy or replica on the other side... hmmm.

Would the LEO's heads spin around three times and explode?

Would the city council undergo furthar cranio-rectal inversion syndrome?

Would PavePusher get banned for asking stupid questions and being generally retarded?

Hmmm...

Sorry, wasting time at work and putting off stuff I should be doing. Sigh.