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Thread: OCDO Alive or are we killing it?

  1. #1
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    I have my crying towel in hand. I am truly saddened by what I have seen taking place on this forum over the last 2 months. For Venator, I'm beggining to think you were right, (per our PM's). I have seen challenges by mostly new members, but even some older members, challenging other members for trying to correct or at least get new members to read the threads before jumping in. Not only Venator but others as well, are being challenged as trying to be the BOSS and difficult to control. I ampurposely not citeing exacts threads so as not to start another fire. I am beggining to re-think my useful contributions to this forum and my participation. Maybe we grew too fast, I don't know, but all this in-fighting and lack of consideration for someone else's opion is giving the anti's plenty of fuel to support their argument that we are ALL wrong. I thought we were all aiming for the same goal, no matter what route we take to get there. After all it only took the founding fathers 13 YEARS to agree on a constitution! One challenge I will touch on, the Hastings event. Hastings was an admitted political demonstration against the sherrif. Yet when cited as such, we are challenged as to what the difference is between them and us! Simple, we gather for food, fun, and info. To let the masses see we are no danger to them. PERIOD! I see some back-of-the bus politics going on in this forum and I for one don't care tobe a part of it. You may have noticed, I haven't been posting much lately except to confirm events. That's because, like I have said, if you don't like what someone has posted--- IGNORE IT! Don't start a whole atlas of a thread to see who will win the fight. It's sickening, no s**t about it. So that's my quarter's worth. I may just take me a seat in the back of the bus and chill for a while. I truly don't like what I'm seeing happen to a good forum. If you don't agree with this little crying time, keep it to yourself, I'm just venting, not looking for answers.

    Jerry

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    I guess I dont see the arguing like you do. I do, however, see some destructive critisism in some of the posts, but all in all, I feel, even with my short time as a member at this site, that it all ends well.

    I for one feel a helluvalot better about expressing my right to KABA, and feel better knowing that there are people like you, and most other members of this site, standing beside me if I ever need the support.

    It seems that we are actually making ground on the education of the public and law enforcement alike, instead of just burning rubber, especially in Michigan. And if/when the Grand Haven incident goes the way it should, that will be a giant leap.


    I think that if we all step back a bit andreaffirm what it is we're trying to accomplish here, the "infighting" can end, and we can move on and continue our mission.
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


    The statements made in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of OCDO or its members.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    It's just growing pains, it will pass.

  4. #4
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    dougwg wrote:
    It's just growing pains, it will pass.
    So does a kidney stone, I didn't enjoy that much either.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    What doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger.

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    dougwg wrote:
    What doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger.
    Agreed.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Remember Jerry, you're one of the key leaders of open carry. You do your wonderful show where you offer us your superior wisdom brought on by all the years you have on us youngesters, and we appreciate it! You've been open carrying longer than anyone here I can think of. It goes without saying that most of us respect your opinions greatly, so when you don't like the way something is going, speak up about it loud and clear, don't slow down your posting!

    In no small part thanks to you, Michigan has experienced a relative explosion of open carry. With that huge and still booming level of success, we are destined to have problems. But remember, with you being a key voice in the cause, it's also no small part your obligation to speak up and teach us all about what you feel is the way we need to be conducting ourselves. Make threads, talk about it on the radio, bring it up at picnics, we'll listen!
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Michigander wrote:
    Remember Jerry, you're one of the key leaders of open carry. You do your wonderful show where you offer us your superior wisdom brought on by all the years you have on us youngesters, and we appreciate it! You've been open carrying longer than anyone here I can think of. It goes without saying that most of us respect your opinions greatly, so when you don't like the way something is going, speak up about it loud and clear, don't slow down your posting!

    In no small part thanks to you, Michigan has experienced a relative explosion of open carry. With that huge and still booming level of success, we are destined to have problems. But remember, with you being a key voice in the cause, it's also no small part your obligation to speak up and teach us all about what you feel is the way we need to be conducting ourselves. Make threads, talk about it on the radio, bring it up at picnics, we'll listen!
    +1

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    I appreciate the kudo's guys, but that's not why I made this statement. I have said before, the biggest thing missing in this country is RESPECT for ourselves and others. To have an opinion is our God given right, as it is to disagree with that opinion. This does not make any individual right orwrong with their opinion. Facts determine right and wrong. To see this much energy wasted on some of the small and childish arguing is counter productive at best. I don't feel I can claim to have been such a big influence for OC here in Mich. This forum has taught me most of the knowledge I have needed to safely OC. Granted I have OC'd for a long time, but not with the full confidence I have in doing so now. That's why it bothers me when I see referrences being made about an individual being the LEADER of this forum in Mich. I DO NOT consider myself a leader, only another member trying to uphold our RKBA. As Venator has said in other threads pertaining to outings, if you want an outing in your area, set it up, take the lead and let us know. I'm sure members will be glad to attend if they can. Neither myself, Venator, Dougwg, or Adam40cal, must give permission or set up the outing. This is a democratic society, we choose to do what we can legally do no matter what it is. As with the T-shirts, I originally posted the idea just looking for somewhere to get one made. Boom, the idea took off. No ONE person decided on the design, we collectvely agreed on it. We are all reaching for the same goal, Stay Informed, Stay Armed, andStay Safe (I heard that somewhere). Let's leave thepolitics and demonstrations out of the goal we are trying to reach. It's going to be a hard enough fight as it is.Off my soapbox now, I'll sit down and shut up, for now.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    You are a leader, whether you like it or not. You stepped up to the plate and did things others wouldn't do. You had the balls to start open carrying before you were even confident about it, you do a radio show, you caused shirts to be made. Granted you don't have to give your permission for someone to open carry, it's a lifestyle, not a group activity anyone here is in charge of.


    You see a problem here, and you are addressing it. You are further proving your value as a leader. Like it or not, you're an important part of open carrying. :P
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Ok, enough already. I really do appreciate the compliments. This wasn't meant to be a praise me statement. I'm not looking for that one bit. Let's address what's happening to OUR forum and get some ideas on how to handle/fix it.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    You are A leader asare Brian, Skip, Mike and John.

    You are all "leaders".... togather.

    But I agree, there is no "one single" leader.

    Kudo's to you all

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    I've noticed on most forums go through cycles. Every so often the mods have to come out and remind every one of the rules, kick a few butts, then all is quiet for some time. Usually associated with growing pains.

    Edit - Stupid, stupid typos!

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    b_twill wrote:
    I've noticed on most forums go through cycles. Every so often the mods have to come out and remind every one of the rules, kick a few butts, then all is quiet for some time. Usually associated with growing pains.

    Edit - Stupid, stupid typos!
    My own forum goes through this same thing all the time it will pass, respect is needed in all aspects of life tho, online or in real life it goes along ways

  15. #15
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    dougwg wrote:
    You are A leader asare Brian, Skip, Mike and John.

    You are all "leaders".... togather.

    But I agree, there is no "one single" leader.

    Kudo's to you all
    In a social group, a leader is someone who steps up to the plate and offers up good ideas, and asks for other peoples ideas too. A leader of a social group is not like the boss of a job, where he or she tells people what to do. There are some clear leaders on this site, and that is important. Without good leadership, we wouldn't be growing like we are, because we would lack direction. But at the same time, a leader has plenty of faith in everyone else, and is not bossy, because there is no reason to be.

    You can call yourself whatever you want, leader, some guy, that cranky dude, whatever. But keep in mind that you shouldn't get bent out of shape about growing pains. Same as I'd say to anyone else, whether or not they contribute as much as you, just bring up your concerns, that way they can be discussed and action taken if needed. Getting mad and doing nothing is never a good idea.

    In any case, I do agree that we need to be as polite as possible. Public image and being close knit is crucial. That's one of the reasons why the get togethers are so important. Local outings are great, but big eat and greets where people come in from a hundred miles away are more important for the well being of the Michigan section of this forum.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    I agree, all you say is true. I wasn't implying doing nothing, just stepping back and take a look and see what happens and try to work something out. You clearly state the points I'm trying to make. We need more support for each other and involvement by more than just a few. Had I already given up, I would not have made a post, simply quit and not have said another word. I'm still not very good at expressing my thoughts hence the post. Is it just me, or do their seem to be more and more continuing jabs and arguments in many threads? It is very refreshing to see all the support for a fellow member in need. Let's apply that same vigor and support to each of us in our cause.

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    dougwg wrote:
    What doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger.
    There arefew quotes I've memorized. There is only one which guides my actions and helps me mentally cope with consequences and events in my life, a couple ofwhich have been seriously terrible. This quote of Nietzche is it.

    I've muttered it to myself over and over on a few occasions.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    WARCHILD wrote:
    Is it just me, or do their seem to be more and more continuing jabs and arguments in many threads?

    Well, Here and there. But whatI see most of the time are educated disputes between fellow OCDO members. I dont see arguments.
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


    The statements made in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of OCDO or its members.

  19. #19
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Tucker6900 wrote:
    WARCHILD wrote:
    Is it just me, or do their seem to be more and more continuing jabs and arguments in many threads?

    Well, Here and there. But whatI see most of the time are educated disputes between fellow OCDO members. I dont see arguments.
    "One man's meat is another man's poison"

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    FWIW,we all end up in the same town, we just take different roads to get there.

    As far as, ideas to get the forum back to the way it was, I'm open for any/all suggestions. Though my vision is lousy (damn bifocals) , at best, I don't see where the forum is any different than one or two years ago...only more members to disagree.

    Not disagreeing on others opinions...just saying.




  21. #21
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Ok, maybe it's just me and I have started noticing it more than I was before.

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    WARCHILD wrote:
    Ok, maybe it's just me and I have started noticing it more than I was before.
    Jerry, it never hurts to keep an open mind and expressyour opinions, regardless if they're wrong or right. The important thing is that you expressed your views on issues pertaining to the forum-you expressed concern-where others may share their views, as well.

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    WARCHILD, I'm forced to agree with you. This place isn't what it was. I've been around about a year and a half and watched the happenings of the last couple of months with some degree of shock at how rapidly things changed. I've seen cop-bashing, personal attacks and insults, cyber-stalking, more off-topic threads than I can count, and even overt racism. There was actually one post (that thankfully got deleted eventually) asking to see our cover model unclothed (phrased in much cruder terms).

    I attribute the changes to both the removal of the moderators and the huge growth the site has seen. I think there is just too much going on for two folks (John and Mike) to moderate part time. They do a good job, but they are outnumbered by the trolls, the flamers, and the sheer size of the membership (OCDO has over 14000 registered members now). I've PM'ed John a couple of times asking if they are going to reinstate or add new moderators, but have never received any response.

    I'd really hate to this site go the way of packing.org forums. I really like this place. The amount of good people and good information on this site is staggering, but when the signal to noise ratio gets too low, it becomes hard to sort out the good stuff.

    --RedKnightt--

    Zombie Squad has it right: “We hold fast to the belief that if you are prepared for a scenario where the walking corpses of your family and neighbors are trying to eat you alive, you will be prepared for almost anything.”

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    don't let it get to you. i've been over on the gunbroker forum for quit a bit longer than i've been on here. the stuff that goes on here is vanilla compared to some of the all out ******* wars that go on over there. from the most part i see a lot of good exchange of information going on here with a lot of willingness for people to apologize and admit when they were wrong.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Let us meet where our minds meet, and celebrate each others lives.This herd of catsgathers here to learn and to join together in mutual defense, to glory in the freedoms and RIGHTS which are declared to be the cause and the course of our nation, and to exercise those freedoms and rightsas free men and asAmericans. We do this here together though we do it for reasons each unique. ThereARE leaders here.

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