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Shocking non-knock raid suggests police procedure needs to be reigned in

Flanders007

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Ok, agreed A.R. maybe I shouldn't get so depressed about it. I should work hard to change it right? Well I hate to say it, but money talks, and I'm broke. The only way you can get ahead polictically is to raise more money than the "other guy."

Are you going to help me start a collection?
 

codename_47

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A few things I found out after reading Randy Balko.

There warrant was NOT a no knock warrant. I will say this again:

There was no "no knock" warrant. There was a knock and announce warrant issued, and these cowboys just decided to take it to the next step. It is just some junkies or low level dealers inside, right? They won't complaint if we roll up the 4th amendment a little...besides, we have them with the drugs inside, slam dunk!

I am actually glad this happened to the mayor. I hope it keep happens to elected officials, because nothing is going to change until it does. Far too many people figure it isn't their problem since they don't do drugs, or that only happens in the inner city, or whatever. They never think it can happen to them.

This reminds me of that other case where the cops shot the family dog. The family got 9k for that one in a civil suit.

It is laughable that anyone would even have a serious talk with anyone about this. People need to go to jail, lose some assets and future income over this. This was a 100% illegal raid, period. They overstepped what the warrant allowed them to.

I think it is silly that the mayor would even talk to the cops about this for 2 hours in his house. I personally would have lost the ability to say anything other than "lawyer...lawyer...lawyer..."
 

MetalChris

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codename_47 wrote:
I think it is silly that the mayor would even talk to the cops about this for 2 hours in his house. I personally would have lost the ability to say anything other than "lawyer...lawyer...lawyer..."
I think I'd be saying something completely different...I'd give an example but have been warned by Mike already... ;)
 

marshaul

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just_a_car wrote:
This is one of MANY reasons why I believe "no knock warrants" should be outlawed. I'm sorry, but if you can't catch the person without breaking down their door with guns drawn, you need to work on your investigation skills.

+1

It also curtails due process.

I've said this before, but as gun owners, this is one of the battles we should be fighting first and foremost.
 

hsmith

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The "War on Drugs" is nothing but an assault on our freedoms.

It infringes the right to due process, warrants, and the 2nd amendment - as well as the right to do with your body what you please.

It is for this "silly" idea that we should legislate morality, but we are doing so at the cost of our freedom.

Anyone who supports this supposed war on drugs is an idiot.
 

Task Force 16

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I'm curious abouta fewthings here.

The report says that the MO of the trafficing schemewas to mail/ship the drugs in small quantities to unsuspecting addresses, then have a "pickup" guy to go by the addresses to pick up the packages. Why didn't the cops just wait for the pickup guy to come, so they could nab him? How much time expired bewteen delivery of the package and the Mayor getting home? Could it be that the Sherriff's office had too many vehicles setting around near the address and the pickup guy smelled a trap? Did the Sherriff's officers think that because the Mayor picked up the package and took it inside (something most people do), that he was in on the scheme?

You know, it seems like somebody involved in this drug investigation would have checked to see who lives at the addresses the packages were being delivered to, before they were delivered.

I'm not bashing LE in general, but I think there is definitely a serious case of incompetence in this case.


Hmmm..........

On the other hand, they may have gotten impatient and blew a chance to bust a dirty mayor.
 

marshaul

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hsmith wrote:
The "War on Drugs" is nothing but an assault on our freedoms.

It infringes the right to due process, warrants, and the 2nd amendment - as well as the right to do with your body what you please.

It is for this "silly" idea that we should legislate morality, but we are doing so at the cost of our freedom.

Anyone who supports this supposed war on drugs is an idiot.

Agreed.
 

snake021

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Jim675 wrote:
The only good thing about this is that an elected official was involved. This should get a lot more air play and bring this issue forward.

I hope the mayor pulls his chief o' police in and has a VERY serious chat about his own town's policies.

Shooting a cowering, retreating lab? That's just plain low-down.

I know it won't happen but, I hope the officers receive the same felony punishment we would get if we shot their dog.

We buy a dog for our protection and it's killed by them for their protection. Why is a dog they use considered as an actual officer, but ours is just personal property?
 

Doug Huffman

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http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/politics/bal-md.mayor09aug09,0,2069848.story

Police chief expresses regret over drug raid By Gus G. Sentementes |Sun Reporter August 9, 2008


Prince George's County police Chief Melvin C. High said yesterday that a suburban Washington mayor and his wife were "innocent victims of drug traffickers" and expressed regret for the loss of the couple's dogs during a raid on his home last week.

Meanwhile, the FBI has opened an investigation into the actions of the county police officers who burst into the house of Berwyn Heights Mayor Cheye Calvo and shot the dogs. Calvo and his mother-in-law were handcuffed after the officers mistakenly suspected he was involved in shipping marijuana to his home.

Special Agent Richard Wolf, a spokesman for the FBI's Baltimore field office, said the agency has opened a civil rights investigation upon the request of Calvo. He said the investigation will monitor the internal probe that the Prince George's County Police Department has begun into police conduct during last week's raid on Calvo's home.

Cpl. Stephen Pacheco, a county police spokesman, said the agency has begun a review of the incident that is common in cases where force is used by police, "to make sure everything was done correctly."

In a statement released yesterday, High said: "The Calvo family members were the apparent victims of a local drug ring. I called him to express my sorrow and regret for that and for the loss of the family's beloved dogs."

High stopped short of apologizing for the actions of the officers, according to the Associated Press.

Last week, county police officers barged into the home with a warrant after they intercepted a package of marijuana addressed to the mayor's wife, Trinity Tomsic.

This week, Prince George's county police arrested two men who they said had orchestrated a plot to deliver hundreds of pounds of marijuana to several unsuspecting residents in the area, which they would then intercept in an effort to avoid detection by law enforcement.
 

Weak 9mm

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Prince George's County police Chief Melvin C. High said yesterday that a suburban Washington mayor and his wife were "innocent victims of drug traffickers" and expressed regret for the loss of the couple's dogs during a raid on his home last week.

In a statement released yesterday, High said: "The Calvo family members were the apparent victims of a local drug ring. I called him to express my sorrow and regret for that and for the loss of the family's beloved dogs."

Oh PLEASE, they were not victims of a drug trafficker, they were victims of the police. The drug movers did NOTHING violent to them. The Police decided that it was acceptable to perform a violent home invasion over marijuana.

This stuff needs to be stopped, non violent criminals do not need to be handled in this manner. I'm tired of seeing police officers decide to play SWAT team because they want an adrenaline rush. That's all this is about IMO. They had plenty of opportunities to catch this man outside of his home (Like when he left on his bicycle and WAVED AT THEM). Instead they charged in, because we all know it's no fun to catch people outside without drawing your guns. Plus, if you don't raid them you wont have an excuse to test out your new ammo on the dogs.

Why is it that these raids are approved for non-violent criminals who aren't any danger to anyone? Marijuana is not a hostage situation or a time bomb. They can arrest him after he leaves and then arrest the others when they leave to go look for him after he hasn't come back. They could also simply serve the warrant and walk in rather than risk everyone's lives by going in masked, in street clothes with guns drawn. What happens when they do that to other innocent people and they get killed? Do the innocent victims get charged with killing a cop? Of course you know the cops will kill them if they shot a plain clothes cop entering the wrong home, even if they were to drop the gun and put their hands up after they realized they were legitimate police. You know they'd be labeled cop killers even though these cops gave them no reason to think they weren't criminals. Even if they yelled police, how the f*** do you know they're police and not criminals pretending to be police?
 

AbNo

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You know, I know a PG County 911 dispatcher, and I've seen the equipment they use.

They have area photos in such a high resolution, you can count the bricks on a house.

You'd THINK someone would've stopped for 30 seconds to look up the owner of the house.
 

AZkopper

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Mike wrote:
Note the police after the fact justification that they HAD to barge in because since they were seen somebody might get a "gun."

Let them stick with that argument, it will only get them in more trouble. See, police cannot create their own exigency.
 

Citizen

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AZkopper wrote:
Mike wrote:
Note the police after the fact justification that they HAD to barge in because since they were seen somebody might get a "gun."

Let them stick with that argument, it will only get them in more trouble. See, police cannot create their own exigency.

Cite, please.

We love to learn about these things. :)
 

S.E.WI

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marshaul wrote:
hsmith wrote:
The "War on Drugs" is nothing but an assault on our freedoms.

It infringes the right to due process, warrants, and the 2nd amendment - as well as the right to do with your body what you please.

It is for this "silly" idea that we should legislate morality, but we are doing so at the cost of our freedom.

Anyone who supports this supposed war on drugs is an idiot.

Agreed.


There is also an incentive in that the Mayor's nice home could have been seized. Money for the LE department involved.

This is just a precursor for an all out gun ban. Anyone on this site, NRA member, gun club member, forms filled out at time of purchase along with any number of reasons could make all of us potential candidates for these tactics. I am against illegal drugs but the government has taken too much power. "We the people" have been letting it happen with our whining about "there should be a law against that". It seems like every law since the Constitution has placed restrictions on the people instead of government.

"I am against illegal drugs..." I should have said harmful drugs but we can't trust the government to give honest reports anyway. I can see your point and hope you can take me off the idiot list.
 

Tomahawk

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It seems that this raid may have been illegal, as well as poor judgement:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig7/bothwell10.html

Excerpt:
[font="Times New Roman, Times, serif"]Given the aforementioned malfeasance by Prince George’s County officers, it should come as no surprise, then, that authorities didn’t even have a "no-knock" warrant when they raided Cheye Calvo’s house, despite claims to the contrary by department spokesmen at the time of the incident. In fact, according to the Washington Post, "a review of the warrant indicates that police neither sought nor received permission from Circuit Court Judge Albert W. Northrup to enter without knocking," and that "Northrup found probable cause to suspect that drugs might be in the house and granted police a standard search warrant."[/font]

[font="Times New Roman, Times, serif"]That’s right; not only was the assault on the mayor’s house immoral, it was also illegal.[/font]
 

AZkopper

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Citizen wrote:
AZkopper wrote:
Mike wrote:
Note the police after the fact justification that they HAD to barge in because since they were seen somebody might get a "gun."

Let them stick with that argument, it will only get them in more trouble. See, police cannot create their own exigency.

Cite, please.

We love to learn about these things. :)

US v Coles (3rd Cir, 9 Feb 2006)

United States v. Williams (6th Cir, 2003)

Just to name a recent few. It is a concept found in most state or federal high courts.

Now, these cases were warrantless searches, however. Regardless though, these officers here had a 'knock' warrant, and chose not to knock because of a supposed exigency they created by their own actions (walking up to the house). Even their own argument does not state (as it would have to, to even stand a chance in h*ll) what the exigency was (for example-a person standing in the window, seeing them approach, then dashing away from the window).

So, as I said, the entry team is in deep doodo

504-05 (6th Cir. 2003).
 

Doug Huffman

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26079096/

Prince George's County Police Chief Melvin High said Wednesday that Calvo and his family were "most likely ... innocent victims," but he would not rule out their involvement, and he defended the way the raid was conducted. He and other officials did not apologize for killing the dogs, saying the officers felt threatened.

But officials insisted they acted within the law, saying the operation was compromised when Calvo's mother-in-law saw officers approaching the house and screamed. That could have given someone time to grab a gun or destroy evidence, authorities said.
 

Weak 9mm

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I am against illegal drugs but the government has taken too much power.

See, the problem with this is you seem to be against them simply because they're illegal. We've already established that not all laws make sense. Lots of illegal drugs are far less damaging than alcohol or tobacco and for that reason and many others, should not be illegal. It's a war on personal freedom, not a war on drugs. We don't need a nanny government telling us what we can and can't do to our own bodies, this is the fundamental problem I have with this.

If it comes down to money as the issue, then they need to get rid of alcohol and tobacco, because those two substances likely cost us more (In healthcare, accidents, lost jobs, etc.) than every other drug combined.

Again, I think they need to stop thinking that they can bust down your door and kill you for having a plant in a bag. That is insane and completely ridiculous. Marijuana is not a powerful drug and it doesn't cause the judgment problems and belligerence that alcohol so easily creates. My understanding of it is that Marijuana was outlawed pretty much entirely for racist reasons to begin with anyway.

Take a moment to think about the fact that Methamphetamine (Aka - "Meth") is a legally prescribed drug, often prescribed to children, called Desoxyn. That throws a lot of propaganda right out the window there. Like that commercial that talked about the "ingredients" in "Meth." It listed things that were used when manufacturing it, but are not contained in any dangerous levels in the final product. Yet the commercial stated that all of these ingredients are in the final product (It never mentioned that they're used to manufacture it, it just said "this is what's in meth."). Of course, they are in the final product on an incredibly slight scale (Probably measured in parts per million), but that is the case with absolutely everything including OTC medication and tap water. The way the commercial portrayed it, Desoxyn should never be given to anyone because it's apparently got things like sulphuric acid in it (In large quantity, [sizzle], as the commercial says). The way the government treats it when you're caught with it (As a drug with no known medicinal value) seems to ignore the fact that it does, in fact, have medicinal value. Note that I don't advocate it's use, and I think that it's one of the more damaging drugs around, but that doesn't mean our government needs to waste all of these tax dollars being somebody's mommy.

Note the drug diacetylmorphine, aka - Heroin, a derivative of morphine. This drug has plenty of known medicinal value. Heroin was the trademarked name for the drug, introduced by Bayer if I'm not mistaken. It's no different than morphine or oxycodone in it's effects really. The only difference is how quickly it reaches the brain. Note that we prescribe hydromorphone, aka - Dilaudid, which gets to the brain even faster than diacetylmorphine when injected and provides a very similar (Subjectively better according to many users) experience. The ampuoles that are prescribed to patients (I know someone who got them for a minor toothache, seriously), can be dissolved and readily injected safely. These are legally prescribed opiates/opioids, yet if you take this one particular opioid, that still breaks down into morphine in the body like pretty much all of the other morphine derivatives, all of a sudden you've "gone too far" and "need to be punished severely."

It's all a game of propaganda, on one hand we prescribe these drugs and get people addicted to them legally. Then they're taken away from the patient abruptly and this can result in the patient then going to the street to curb their withdrawal and cravings for opiates. Not all brains are the same and some people get extremely addicted to opiates rather easily. Then when caught with street opiates, they're going to be punished similarly to a violent criminal and will be locked in a box with those people. Rather than get them help, they're often just put in prison and have a felony on their record, which can easily prevent them from ever working again. I am not a fan of this method of punishing the sick at all.

But anyway, something like marijuana being considered a justifiable reason to bust down a door with guns drawn is sick. This is not too far from busting down the door of a home because there's a case of liquor bottles inside (In fact, it makes less sense than that to me). Marijuana isn't even a "hard drug," it's much less dangerous than alcohol, and the consumption of it doesn't tend to turn the person into a belligerent idiot. Note that saying "one time I saw somebody on marijuana do x, y or z" isn't going to convince me otherwise. I've seen so many people on alcohol beat their wifes daily and I've seen more fights than I can count that never would have happened without alcohol that it's ridiculous. I've seen plenty of car wrecks and stupid decisions from alcohol and I've yet to see anyone do these things with marijuana. I used to know a whole lot of people that smoked it on a daily basis too. I've never seen marijuana make someone belligerent or totally trashed like a large dose of alcohol will. Now I have seen people who were first introduced to marijuana pretend to be extremely "high" and exaggerate the effects of the drug (Often poorly) to be cool, but those people are idiots. Even then, I never saw anyone do anything like a drunk person would do.

Of course, this doesn't mean everyone in here will act belligerent when they're drunk, but alcohol is much more likely cause this type of behavior regularly. It can turn someone into a totally different person when they're under it's effects. Also, a dosage of two to three times the dose that gets someone drunk can kill them, where smoked marijuana is impossible to overdose on. The only conceivable way to overdose on it would be to concentrate a massive amount into something that could be taken orally. Even then it would take thousands of dollars worth and tons of effort.

In general, it shouldn't be a crime to put whatever you want into your own body IMO. If they're going to regulate this, they should regulate the drugs that are physically addictive (ie - alcohol, one of the few drugs that can even be fatal to withdraw from), cause brain damage (ie - alcohol) and destroy judgement and motor skills (ie - alcohol), not the drugs that are essentially harmless when used sparingly in moderation. It should be your decision to use these substances, provided you aren't truly insane. I don't like people controlling what I do or don't do to my body or what anyone else does or doesn't do to theirs, I think there's something fundamentally wrong with that. Now, I don't think you should be able to do something to someone elses body, but what you do to yourself shouldn't be anyone's business.



The effects of marijuana on driving:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3zou4F00Ic
 

Thundar

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There are parallels to the Ryan Frederick case here.

1. Police escalation of a knock and announce warrant into a home assault.

2. Police scapegoating of third party (informant for Frederick and Fedex man for Calvo.)

3. Police inability to accept responsibility for their actions.

4. Inappropriate home assault was a symptom of a police department with a history of professionalism problems.

5. Both police departments suffered from community relation problems.

FOR GUN OWNERS AND LIBERTY LOVING INDIVIDUALS BOTH CASES POINT TO THE INCOMPATIBILITY OF NO KNOCK WARRANTS AND A FREE SOCIETY.
 
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