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Thread: Don't Need To Carry In Our National Parks. They Are Safe

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    http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/08/...rss_topstories



    Or Maybe NOT !



    For years, Mexican drug cartels have used the remote forest to conduct and conceal their business. But the pot production has intensified because it has become harder and harder to smuggle marijuana across the U.S.-Mexico border, Walters said.

    "They come into our own national parks and risk the lives of sheriffs and others,"



    The Others being ME and YOU !

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    Wonder if those that oppose secured borders consider these folks migrant workers?

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    If the NP's are so safe, why do they make a point to tell visitors not to leave anything valuable in plain sight in vehicles, hike in pairs or groups and if you go into the back country, your permit includes a release of liability?

    Yeah, I know not leaving stuff in plain sight in busy areas is common sense, but it's kind of hard to do when you've got a car full of people and are packed to the gills. And yeah, the hiking in groups thing is for bear country. BUT, that hasn't stopped bear attacks.

    And no, it didn't used to be this way. Granted ya gotta go back a bunch of years. As society goes, so go the parks.



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    hogleg wrote:
    Wonder if those that oppose secured borders consider these folks migrant workers?
    The folks that oppose secured borders are likely consumers of a certain plant that addles the brain when smoked...

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    Federal Park Police areattacked more than any other group of LEO's in the country.

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    I am not sure what the point of the OP is but I do know that in the Sand Hills State Forest I was warned 30 years ago to be careful in there. This is similar to a National Park but it is where the majority of MJ was grown around here and booby traps and guards abounded. For many years the majority of weed has been grown on federal or state land. It is cheap with very little traffic. This is not new and did not start with the Illegals. If you visit a State Forest or National Park whether or not you have a gun it is best to stay on the marked trails the exact guidelines thye posted.

    I have run across some places while I was working that OC'ing a AK, anAR and two Glocks would have been a waste if I had shown up at the wrong time. A friend of mine came home late one night to find his house burned down. They thought he was at home.

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    The Organ Pipe National 'Monument' website even warns (timidly) about encountering 'illegals'. Anybody wanderin' around in there better be heeled... I don't care what the sign sez. Doubtful the LEO's do either. I'd consider it 'reasonable & prudent' behavior... all things considered. It's a main smugglers trail... 'n the trash lane thru the park is a disgrace. That's about 15 miles from me. Anytime I even venture near that area... My AK is notched in the seat beside me. Even then I'm outgunned.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    The Organ Pipe National 'Monument' website even warns (timidly) about encountering 'illegals'. Anybody wanderin' around in there better be heeled... I don't care what the sign sez. Doubtful the LEO's do either. I'd consider it 'reasonable & prudent' behavior... all things considered. It's a main smugglers trail... 'n the trash lane thru the park is a disgrace. That's about 15 miles from me. Anytime I even venture near that area... My AK is notched in the seat beside me. Even then I'm outgunned.
    You understand what I mean. People can talk about carrying in the NP and the bears and BG's etc. but there is a group in most of the winderness areas that it is just best to try and avoid. A Glock 17 my be comforting but you better have some backup.

    Several years ago my next door neighbor got mixed up with some of these fellows and took an unexplained vacation. Three months later they found him in the trunk of his car in a remote area.

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    PT111 wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    The Organ Pipe National 'Monument' website even warns (timidly) about encountering 'illegals'. Anybody wanderin' around in there better be heeled... I don't care what the sign sez. Doubtful the LEO's do either. I'd consider it 'reasonable & prudent' behavior... all things considered. It's a main smugglers trail... 'n the trash lane thru the park is a disgrace. That's about 15 miles from me. Anytime I even venture near that area... My AK is notched in the seat beside me. Even then I'm outgunned.
    You understand what I mean. People can talk about carrying in the NP and the bears and BG's etc. but there is a group in most of the winderness areas that it is just best to try and avoid. A Glock 17 my be comforting but you better have some backup.

    Several years ago my next door neighbor got mixed up with some of these fellows and took an unexplained vacation. Three months later they found him in the trunk of his car in a remote area.
    You are correct, of course, but that is an unsat situation. It's a public place and we have every right to be there. I despise the idea of caving to thugs. Especially when we pay so much frikkin money for "law enforcement". And you wonder why vigilantism takes place.

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    superdemon wrote:
    Federal Park Police areattacked more than any other group of LEO's in the country.
    Do you have a site handy for that? Those would be valuable stats.


    edit:spelling

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    PT111 wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    The Organ Pipe National 'Monument' website even warns (timidly) about encountering 'illegals'. Anybody wanderin' around in there better be heeled... I don't care what the sign sez. Doubtful the LEO's do either. I'd consider it 'reasonable & prudent' behavior... all things considered. It's a main smugglers trail... 'n the trash lane thru the park is a disgrace. That's about 15 miles from me. Anytime I even venture near that area... My AK is notched in the seat beside me. Even then I'm outgunned.
    You understand what I mean. People can talk about carrying in the NP and the bears and BG's etc. but there is a group in most of the winderness areas that it is just best to try and avoid. A Glock 17 my be comforting but you better have some backup.

    Several years ago my next door neighbor got mixed up with some of these fellows and took an unexplained vacation. Three months later they found him in the trunk of his car in a remote area.
    You are correct, of course, but that is an unsat situation. It's a public place and we have every right to be there. I despise the idea of caving to thugs. Especially when we pay so much frikkin money for "law enforcement". And you wonder why vigilantism takes place.
    From what my friends in the area tell me, OPNM is not a place to take a stroll. I'm told it's been trashed out by illegals using it as a 'way' station on their trek across the border. This includes cutting of saguaro for firewood.:X The same goes for Cabeza Prieta NWR. Even the Papago Indian Reservation has had significant issues, even to the point of being forced to abandon some buildings (including a school) near the border as the illegals simply occupy them and they are not equiped to handle the influx of illegals. And yes, they've asked the Feds and the Governor for help and have yet to recieve any.

    Even places like Picture Rocks near Tucson may not be a good idea. Last time I was there, ~five years ago, the folks that were there did not appear to be locals or friendly. No English spoken. My gut said leave and we vamoosed pronto.

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    PT111 wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    The Organ Pipe National 'Monument' website even warns (timidly) about encountering 'illegals'. Anybody wanderin' around in there better be heeled... I don't care what the sign sez. Doubtful the LEO's do either. I'd consider it 'reasonable & prudent' behavior... all things considered. It's a main smugglers trail... 'n the trash lane thru the park is a disgrace. That's about 15 miles from me. Anytime I even venture near that area... My AK is notched in the seat beside me. Even then I'm outgunned.
    You understand what I mean. People can talk about carrying in the NP and the bears and BG's etc. but there is a group in most of the winderness areas that it is just best to try and avoid. A Glock 17 my be comforting but you better have some backup.

    Several years ago my next door neighbor got mixed up with some of these fellows and took an unexplained vacation. Three months later they found him in the trunk of his car in a remote area.
    You are correct, of course, but that is an unsat situation. It's a public place and we have every right to be there. I despise the idea of caving to thugs. Especially when we pay so much frikkin money for "law enforcement". And you wonder why vigilantism takes place.
    It is a sad situation that we are afraid to go certain places that we should be able to. If I had an answer I couldrun against Obama and win. Unfortunately we have to face facts that there are some very bad people in this world and all of them aren't illegal aliens.

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    Here is some info.
    National Park Service commissioned law enforcement officers were victims of assaults 111 times in 2004, nearly a third of which resulted in injury. This figure tops the 2003 total of 106 assaults and the 2002 total of 98.

    This looks like a good one from the Washington Postand is from Feb. 2008.

    Illegal immigrants connected to Mexico's drug cartels are growing hundreds of millions of dollars worth of marijuana in the heart of one of America's national treasures...

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    So our National Parks have become "wilderness ghettos", where only the lawless are welcome?

    I wonder if there is any connection to the increase in wildfires in those areas.

    The frustrated, organized efforts to eradicate this element seems reminiscent of the problems finding the enemy in SE Asia. Could some of the travel/activity restrictions (no cars, ATVs, snowmobiles, etc) be used to disrupt some of this traffic? Seems like these folks have implemented their own version of the Ho Chi Min Trail.

    Of course, if one area becomes too restrictive, they'll just move to another, like urban crime.

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    Here's an article from June 2003, just over five years ago. Of couse, they have to include the 'Wild West' themein the title.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0610/p01s03-usgn.html

    ["Law enforcement is spread thin already," says Mr. Barna. Parks and memorials nationwide are transferring 200 rangers - mostly from Western parks - to help meet the general security demands of the summer surge in tourism. Nor does policing the park system come cheaply: The recent terror-alert switch from Code Yellow to Code Orange cost the Park Service $63,500 a day.

    And the forces left behind are stretched ever thinner. DeLaCruz says he spends a significant portion of his time on the marijuana battle, and two rangers accompanying him on a recent day say their time for other duties, from search and rescue to interpretive work, is dwindling. "There are people all over the park who want to find a ranger for all the usual reasons, from historical questions to what kind of flora and fauna they are seeing," says one. "It's sad that we are frequently out of sight for them, because we're off chasing marijuana growers."

    Given the growth of marijuana farming in national parks over the past decade, officials fear the problem will worsen before it improves. "The whole trend is that these groups are moving around more and head[ing] to areas which are more populated," says Laura Mark, an agent for the US Forest Service. "They are going after public land meant for families, where they threaten people and cause untold damage. And they don't care because they are making more money than [most] will see in a lifetime."

    Marijuana growers keep themselves heavily armed, officials say - partly out of worry about rival growers, partly because the street value of marijuana can be so high. Several shootouts have erupted between growers and law enforcement. A hunter and son were shot in El Dorado County recently, and a hunter was killed two years ago in Butte County. Last year, officers were shot in Tehama and Glenn counties in the Central Valley. "One of our primary concerns is for our employees," says Sequoia's Mr. Tweed."]

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    like_the_roman wrote:
    hogleg wrote:
    Wonder if those that oppose secured borders consider these folks migrant workers?
    The folks that oppose secured borders are likely consumers of a certain plant that addles the brain when smoked...
    Tobacco?



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    bobcat wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    PT111 wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    The Organ Pipe National 'Monument' website even warns (timidly) about encountering 'illegals'. Anybody wanderin' around in there better be heeled... I don't care what the sign sez. Doubtful the LEO's do either. I'd consider it 'reasonable & prudent' behavior... all things considered. It's a main smugglers trail... 'n the trash lane thru the park is a disgrace. That's about 15 miles from me. Anytime I even venture near that area... My AK is notched in the seat beside me. Even then I'm outgunned.
    You understand what I mean. People can talk about carrying in the NP and the bears and BG's etc. but there is a group in most of the winderness areas that it is just best to try and avoid. A Glock 17 my be comforting but you better have some backup.

    Several years ago my next door neighbor got mixed up with some of these fellows and took an unexplained vacation. Three months later they found him in the trunk of his car in a remote area.
    You are correct, of course, but that is an unsat situation. It's a public place and we have every right to be there. I despise the idea of caving to thugs. Especially when we pay so much frikkin money for "law enforcement". And you wonder why vigilantism takes place.
    From what my friends in the area tell me, OPNM is not a place to take a stroll. I'm told it's been trashed out by illegals using it as a 'way' station on their trek across the border. This includes cutting of saguaro for firewood.:X The same goes for Cabeza Prieta NWR. Even the Papago Indian Reservation has had significant issues, even to the point of being forced to abandon some buildings (including a school) near the border as the illegals simply occupy them and they are not equiped to handle the influx of illegals. And yes, they've asked the Feds and the Governor for help and have yet to recieve any.

    Even places like Picture Rocks near Tucson may not be a good idea. Last time I was there, ~five years ago, the folks that were there did not appear to be locals or friendly. No English spoken. My gut said leave and we vamoosed pronto.
    Dunno where you were in Picture Rocks... but we mostly speak English... and are mostly white WASPS. We're also mostly heavily armed. (understandably) Thealiens don't give a crap about no steenkin' park... They're not 'immigrants' they're invaders. I'm up against the AWP canal to the west 'n beyond that is the Rez. OPNM has been trashed... and the local news weenies still whine about the plight of these 'immigrants'. I'd soon as shoot the lot of 'em... including the enablers. Flyin' the rebel battle flag on yer property sends a signal to any illegals that any trespass will most likely result in them gettin' shot. (Former Confederate Territory of Arizona) The local LEO's told me that one. No problem!

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    Good to hear Pic Rocks is back in the hands of the folks who OWN it and not the invaders. Yeah!

    As for the REBEL flag... Absolutely GREAT! A flag of great historical significance getting used as a warning flag rather than a PC football. I'll pass that along to friends and relatives in AZ. Excellent. Heh heh.

    Hmmm, I know what I'll be sending a couple of folks for Christmas. :celebrate



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    You want to fly the flag of a country that fought a war against the USA in order to keep illegal immigrants off your property?

    That seems incredibly counterintuitive to me. Looks like you would fly the Stars and Bars to show you pride in your own country, and your willingness to defend it, not a foreign country.

    If you want to show illegals ae not welcom, just put up a sign that says so.

    Have you not heard, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend'?

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    superdemon wrote:
    You want to fly the flag of a country that fought a war against the USA in order to keep illegal immigrants off your property?

    That seems incredibly counterintuitive to me. Looks like you would fly the Stars and Bars to show you pride in your own country, and your willingness to defend it, not a foreign country.

    If you want to show illegals ae not welcom, just put up a sign that says so.

    Have you not heard, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend'?
    You don't live here... It's not 'academic'.This IS the South! 'Stars 'n Bars' is the Confederate 1st National flag... Stars 'n Stripes is the US flag. If the Mexicans worried about the display of the US flag... they'd stay home. They don't. That square Confederate battle flag (36x36") sez: "The people living on this property are not politically correct... most likely not liberal California transplants... and will shoot you." They get the message! 'Sonora Rebel' is more than a catchy alias... It's me!

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    bobcat wrote:
    Good to hear Pic Rocks is back in the hands of the folks who OWN it and not the invaders. Yeah!

    As for the REBEL flag... Absolutely GREAT! A flag of great historical significance getting used as a warning flag rather than a PC football. I'll pass that along to friends and relatives in AZ. Excellent. Heh heh.

    Hmmm, I know what I'll be sending a couple of folks for Christmas. :celebrate

    "Seven Brothers" is a great online source for flags of all types. I often pair the battle flag with the black Q flag (Quantrill). I fly the Alamo 1824 flag on Cinco de Mayo... 'n the "Gonzalez' 'Come and take it!" Cannon flag for the helluvit... It's sort of my 2A flag!

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    There are plenty of people here in KY that fly the rebel flag. Regardless of location, I refuse to fly the flag of a country whose army killed Americans.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    superdemon wrote:
    There are plenty of people here in KY that fly the rebel flag. Regardless of location, I refuse to fly the flag of a country whose army killed Americans.
    Confederate soldiers/sailors/Marineswere 'Americans' too... My 3x Great Granpa was one of 'em... as was a 3x Great Uncle. I reckon they might'a put a dent in the Yankee gene pool from time to time.

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    superdemon wrote:
    There are plenty of people here in KY that fly the rebel flag. Regardless of location, I refuse to fly the flag of a country whose army killed Americans.
    So then you won't fly the stars and stripes, either?

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    I fly the American flag.

    I'm not going to debate the Civil War with you.

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