imported post
peekaboo wrote:
I will start with Bear first. Where did I ever say I believe the government can every do what ever they want….please point that out to me. Next, “It's a shame America will die because of people like you”, [/b]really Bear this is called an ad hominem attack; this is a personal attack in an attempt to discredit the argument. It is used when someone can’t find fault with the argument yet for various reasons disagrees with it. Now Bear, I took my first oath at 17 years of age, climbed from enlisted to an officer with over 22 years of service before I retired (without a college degree), spent most of my adult life deployed overseas doing what I did, have rode to the sound of the guns several times, been shot at and missed, and buried some really amazing Americans that happened to be my friends. Have a CIB, several patches, badges, tabs so that I look like a fruit salad when it is all on; so pardon me if I take offense to the most stupid, ignorant, uniformed, statement I have ever seen in my life.
No to the “I own the property by extension” statement. Overly simplified and stupid; come to any of the public properties you own by extension and try to, oh I don’t know let’s say; move in, take furniture you need, repaint it, set up an office etc. I can guarantee you will visit some public property and will not like it.
The statement I made is based on facts and law, not what I wished or want or think how it should be. Even gave examples of how it could happen. Don’t know what happened at the Port I thought I made that perfectly clear….the above just supports my second point from an earlier post – the ‘I feel’ answers. I was pointing out there is no difference between public or private property in the statute, if anyone can find it let me know, I will add it to my database. And I was explaining the triggers from all of the RCW’s that deal with trespass.
DeanF; If you can show me where they don’t have the authority, I will bow to your wisdom. Administrative rules can have the same effect as legislated law, unless they are overruled by a higher precedent. The courts have ruled on this numerous times, I will find them in my database and send them to you. The argument that it is a due process violation doesn’t fit legal definition. You could argue against the administrative rule in open court – that defeats the due process violation. Whether it would be an acceptable/successful defense is another. I’ve seen some weird arguments that were successful.
As to community caretaking function, it is doctrine of policing as recognized by the courts. Law enforcement is just a small fraction of what police do. Read law enforcement responsibilities as criminal investigation, arrest, charging, detention etc. Community caretaking function is about keeping the peace and public safety – it derives from the old ‘Serve and Protect’ motto. It is in the nature of a service function and is commonly referred to as the “community caretaking function.” It is recognized by the courts prior to the first US Supreme Court decision in 1973 Cady v. Dombroski. And it has evolved over the years.
As to being smart and interpreting the law I’m not going to touch that one.
So in response to what you claim ofa personal attack, you call me "stupid". I was disabled out of the military after 10 years. You are singing to the wrong guy. BTW, I know several decorated combat vets who are so liberal they think obama is the answer to all of Americas ills.Your theory the military serve makes you an American who isn't confused about America does fly.
Why would you move in and live in the garage or a workshop? Because that is what most government property is. So your theory doesn't hold water. But I can sure as hell go into that shop or garage anytime I want to.
If the Constitution or the laws do not give the government, and gonernment the officials the right to do something, then they can't. The major problem today is that government officals think they can make it up as they see fit. They can't and only get away with it if we let them.
You keep making claims without every citing anything. Like this.
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[/b]The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW
9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.
Now explain how a government municipality can have a rule (that's a law, look it up in the dictionary) that bans guns more strictly than as specifiedin RCW 9.41.270 and in;
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[/b](1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
(a) The restricted access areas of a jail, or of a law enforcement facility, or any place used for the confinement of a person (i) arrested for, charged with, or convicted of an offense, (ii) held for extradition or as a material witness, or (iii) otherwise confined pursuant to an order of a court, except an order under chapter
13.32A or
13.34 RCW. Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress or ingress open to the general public;
(b) Those areas in any building which are used in connection with court proceedings, including courtrooms, jury rooms, judge's chambers, offices and areas used to conduct court business, waiting areas, and corridors adjacent to areas used in connection with court proceedings. The restricted areas do not include common areas of ingress and egress to the building that is used in connection with court proceedings, when it is possible to protect court areas without restricting ingress and egress to the building. The restricted areas shall be the minimum necessary to fulfill the objective of this subsection (1)(b).
For purposes of this subsection (1)(b), "weapon" means any firearm, explosive as defined in RCW
70.74.010, or any weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or any knife, dagger, dirk, or other similar weapon that is capable of causing death or bodily injury and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury.
In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.
The local judicial authority shall designate and clearly mark those areas where weapons are prohibited, and shall post notices at each entrance to the building of the prohibition against weapons in the restricted areas;
(c) The restricted access areas of a public mental health facility certified by the department of social and health services for inpatient hospital care and state institutions for the care of the mentally ill, excluding those facilities solely for evaluation and treatment. Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress and ingress open to the general public;
(d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or
(e) The restricted access areas of a commercial service airport designated in the airport security plan approved by the federal transportation security administration, including passenger screening checkpoints at or beyond the point at which a passenger initiates the screening process. These areas do not include airport drives, general parking areas and walkways, and shops and areas of the terminal that are outside the screening checkpoints and that are normally open to unscreened passengers or visitors to the airport. Any restricted access area shall be clearly indicated by prominent signs indicating that firearms and other weapons are prohibited in the area.
(2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:
(a) Restricting the discharge of firearms in any portion of their respective jurisdictions where there is a reasonable likelihood that humans, domestic animals, or property will be jeopardized. Such laws and ordinances shall not abridge the right of the individual guaranteed by Article I, section 24 of the state Constitution to bear arms in defense of self or others; and
(b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:
(i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW
9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW
9.41.060; or
(ii) Any showing, demonstration, or lecture involving the exhibition of firearms.
(3)(a) Cities, towns, and counties may enact ordinances restricting the areas in their respective jurisdictions in which firearms may be sold, but, except as provided in (b) of this subsection, a business selling firearms may not be treated more restrictively than other businesses located within the same zone. An ordinance requiring the cessation of business within a zone shall not have a shorter grandfather period for businesses selling firearms than for any other businesses within the zone.
(b) Cities, towns, and counties may restrict the location of a business selling firearms to not less than five hundred feet from primary or secondary school grounds, if the business has a storefront, has hours during which it is open for business, and posts advertisements or signs observable to passersby that firearms are available for sale. A business selling firearms that exists as of the date a restriction is enacted under this subsection (3)(b) shall be grandfathered according to existing law.
(4) Violations of local ordinances adopted under subsection (2) of this section must have the same penalty as provided for by state law.
(5) The perimeter of the premises of any specific location covered by subsection (1) of this section shall be posted at reasonable intervals to alert the public as to the existence of any law restricting the possession of firearms on the premises.
(6) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:
(a) A person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments, while engaged in official duties;
(b) Law enforcement personnel, except that subsection (1)(b) of this section does apply to a law enforcement officer who is present at a courthouse building as a party to an action under chapter
10.14,
10.99, or
26.50 RCW, or an action under Title
26 RCW where any party has alleged the existence of domestic violence as defined in RCW
26.50.010; or
(c) Security personnel while engaged in official duties.
(7) Subsection (1)(a) of this section does not apply to a person licensed pursuant to RCW
9.41.070 who, upon entering the place or facility, directly and promptly proceeds to the administrator of the facility or the administrator's designee and obtains written permission to possess the firearm while on the premises or checks his or her firearm. The person may reclaim the firearms upon leaving but must immediately and directly depart from the place or facility.
(8) Subsection (1)(c) of this section does not apply to any administrator or employee of the facility or to any person who, upon entering the place or facility, directly and promptly proceeds to the administrator of the facility or the administrator's designee and obtains written permission to possess the firearm while on the premises.
(9) Subsection (1)(d) of this section does not apply to the proprietor of the premises or his or her employees while engaged in their employment.
(10) Any person violating subsection (1) of this section is guilty of a gross misdemeanor.
(11) "Weapon" as used in this section means any firearm, explosive as defined in RCW
70.74.010, or instrument or weapon listed in RCW
9.41.250.
