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Thread: While TSA Floats Back Door Airport Gun Ban, GeorgiaCarry.org Files Devastating Brief in Fed. Court!

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    USA Today Article alleges in headline that TSA will enacta back-door gun ban in the non-sterile areas of airports: http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2008-08-07-tsa-gun-ban_N.htm

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    The editors of the USA Today article above havegreatly reinventedwhat the TSA is considering regarding "approving" local airport security plans (still subject to controlling state law, see Fenter v. Norfolk Airport Authority, 649 S.E.2d 704 (Va. 2007) (holding that state airport authorities must comply with state statute and not TSA regulations))- but just in case anybody at the TSA is dreaming up a back door airport gun ban - well, then:

    Any TSA back door gun ban is unworkable because the TSA cannot enact any criminal penalty to be exacted by a state or local agency. See Printz v. United States, 521 U.S. 898 (1997) (Congress possesses no power to command state or local officials to carry our gun purchaser background checks).

    Any TSA back door gun ban isunconstitutional because TSA cannot enact a federal gun ban on property not under federal jurisdiction.See United States v. Lopez, 514 U.S. 549 (1995) (Congress possesses no general police powers to ban gun carry in K-12 schools).

    Only 8 states ban gun carry at airports, see
    http://www.opencarry.org/images/airportmap.png. Accordingly, any TSA back door gun ban would insult federalism and most state legislatures across America.

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    I kind of expected this type of response from GCO. Even me as a non-lawyer could see that the direction Atlanta was trying to go was just plain nonsense.

    I am amazed that the City of Atlanta would waste the money on legal fees for this kind of thing. The state of GA has spoken, very clearly via its legislature. Do they think they are not in the state anymore?

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    The hegemony of BATFEMATSA increases. Search on 'security theater'.

    The 'filing' is quite readable and entertaining. Thanks.

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    The gun haters must be feeling pretty desperate right now, especially here in Georgia. It seems they're losing on all fronts. They lost boththe battle over HB 89 and the battle in the US Supreme Court within the last few months. I'm not at all surprised to see such desperation tactics from them now.

    The GCO brief seems to me to bevery well researched and written. I don't see any obvious flaws that would allow the likes of Shirley Franklin to poke any holes in it.

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    Pardon my ignorance, but if I transport my firearm in my checked luggage from say...DFW to an airport that does not allow legal carry on the nonsterile side of the airport, when I retreive my luggage at the baggage carousel I immediately become a criminal? Not to mention that if I comply with such rules I am defenseless in the parking lot and in fact until I reach my destination; since I have no gun in my car. Does this make sense to anyone else? 'Cause I'm obviously missing something. CHUCK.

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    I like the fact that they said it would cause mass panic if some one fired a gun in the airport.
    Of course it would! but a law abiding citizen isn't going to discharge a weapon, a criminal may, but they aren't covered by those same laws, they by default ignore them.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    If there is a restaurant at the airport how about an "OC event" there without OC. Everyone meets somewhere and caravans over and pulls over to the side of the row in a long line of cars just before reaching airport property, they get out, secure their firearms in their trunks, drive to the airport, eat, leave, get just off airport property and a long line of cars pull over and everyone gets out their sidearms, locks and loads, and go on. When LEO or someone complains tell them to talk to airport management because their stupid rules are causing the problem.

    Ok bad idea, but it certainly might make a point.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    or, maybe we open carry empty holsters !!
    then people can see who we are but we can't get busted.

    deepdiver wrote:
    If there is a restaurant at the airport how about an "OC event" there without OC. Everyone meets somewhere and caravans over and pulls over to the side of the row in a long line of cars just before reaching airport property, they get out, secure their firearms in their trunks, drive to the airport, eat, leave, get just off airport property and a long line of cars pull over and everyone gets out their sidearms, locks and loads, and go on. When LEO or someone complains tell them to talk to airport management because their stupid rules are causing the problem.

    Ok bad idea, but it certainly might make a point.

  9. #9
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    That's brilliant! Everyone stops just off airport property and unloads and secures weapons in trunks but leaves holsters on and exposed to view. Then everyone goes into the terminal to eat at the agreed upon restaurant with emptyholsters showing. The airport policewouldn't be able tosay $#!+ because no one has a weapon on them inside the building. Then when all in the grouphave finished eating everyone rolls just off airport property and stops to lock and load and refill holsters again. That would make the perfect political statement, especially if it gotwide news coverage! I can imagine the video on TV and pictures in newspapers of people unloading/reloading and eating with empty holsters on.

    Of course this wouldn't work if TSA made all airport property includingparking lots off limits. I wouldn't put it past Franklin to lobby them to do that.

    exgabrit wrote:
    or, maybe we open carry empty holsters !!
    then people can see who we are but we can't get busted.

    deepdiver wrote:
    If there is a restaurant at the airport how about an "OC event" there without OC. Everyone meets somewhere and caravans over and pulls over to the side of the row in a long line of cars just before reaching airport property, they get out, secure their firearms in their trunks, drive to the airport, eat, leave, get just off airport property and a long line of cars pull over and everyone gets out their sidearms, locks and loads, and go on. When LEO or someone complains tell them to talk to airport management because their stupid rules are causing the problem.

    Ok bad idea, but it certainly might make a point.

  10. #10
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    or we can park at perimeter somewhere and ride marta too.

    ok, who knows some news people ?

    officerjdc wrote:
    That's brilliant! Everyone stops just off airport property and unloads and secures weapons in trunks but leaves holsters on and exposed to view. Then everyone goes into the terminal to eat at the agreed upon restaurant with emptyholsters showing. The airport policewouldn't be able tosay $#!+ because no one has a weapon on them inside the building. Then when all in the grouphave finished eating everyone rolls just off airport property and stops to lock and load and refill holsters again. That would make the perfect political statement, especially if it gotwide news coverage! I can imagine the video on TV and pictures in newspapers of people unloading/reloading and eating with empty holsters on.

    Of course this wouldn't work if TSA made all airport property includingparking lots off limits. I wouldn't put it past Franklin to lobby them to do that.

    exgabrit wrote:
    or, maybe we open carry empty holsters !!
    then people can see who we are but we can't get busted.

    deepdiver wrote:
    If there is a restaurant at the airport how about an "OC event" there without OC. Everyone meets somewhere and caravans over and pulls over to the side of the row in a long line of cars just before reaching airport property, they get out, secure their firearms in their trunks, drive to the airport, eat, leave, get just off airport property and a long line of cars pull over and everyone gets out their sidearms, locks and loads, and go on. When LEO or someone complains tell them to talk to airport management because their stupid rules are causing the problem.

    Ok bad idea, but it certainly might make a point.

  11. #11
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    I agree with the show of solidarity on the absurdity of the gun grabbing laws or attempts there at. However, why would you want to patronize an eatery in a gun free zone. If you are going to do this, do it up to the point of placing your drink order, hand the waiter/waitress/manager a NO GUN/NO $ card, get up and leave. Now you have made the point, probably cause the eatery to throw a stink up to the airport officials and whomever else. Just an alternativeplan.

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    ilbob wrote:
    I kind of expected this type of response from GCO. Even me as a non-lawyer could see that the direction Atlanta was trying to go was just plain nonsense.

    I am amazed that the City of Atlanta would waste the money on legal fees for this kind of thing. The state of GA has spoken, very clearly via its legislature. Do they think they are not in the state anymore?
    Oh, you would be surprized what government does with YOUR money;

    After Virginia's John Fenter won his FOIA lawsuit for records of Norfolk Airport Authority's illegal sign stating that vehicles were subject to search in airport parking lots, I FOIAed the Norfolk Airport Authority for records of their legal fees pad, or a summary record. here is there response and attached doc totaling $137,297.42 of taxpayer money spent defending their breaking thelaw in Virginia:

    --

    Subject: FOIA Request to Norfolk Airport Authority
    Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 10:25:15 -0400
    From: Richard Ottinger <ROttinger@vanblk.com>
    To: 'FCPCChairman@cox.net' <FCPCChairman@cox.net>
    CC: Anita Poston <APoston@vanblk.com>, "'kscott@norfolkairport.com'"<kscott@norfolkairport.com>

    Dear Mr. Stollenwerk -

    I have been asked by the Norfolk Airport Authority ("Authority") to respond to your FOIA Request dated May 11, 2008. In response to your request, I provide you with Exhibit A which reflects: (1) "the total amount of money sent to Mr. Fenter or Fenter's attorney to pay for Fenter's attorneys fees and costs in this matter;" and (2) "the total amount of money spent by the Authority to litigate against Fenter in this matter, including money sent to Authority attorneys, legal consultants, and legal costs (i.e., court filing fees, etc.)."

    Please note that as the Authority's general counsel, this law firm sends an aggregate statement to the Authority for the ordinary costs we advance on behalf of the Authority such as long distance telephone, postage and copying expenses, and we do not separate such incidental costs for each specific legal matter. Exhibit A may not include such ordinary cost items which were reimbursed to this firm but were not separately identified as related to the Fenter litigation. The Authority has no documentation reflecting such incidental costs specifically associated with Mr. Fenter's matter.

    Sincerely,

    Richard H. Ottinger
    Vandeventer Black LLP

    101 West Main Street, Suite 500
    World Trade Center
    Norfolk, VA 23510
    757.446.8673 - direct
    757.446.8670 - fax
    rottinger@vanblk.com
    http://www.vanblk.com





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