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Thread: YAY, my first LEO encounter

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    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    Finally just had my first LEO encounter about 14:50 at the Winco in Kent. Shopping with my wife and 13 yo daughter. Made it most of the way through our route, stopped in the meat section at the back of the store when a Kent police officer (snuck) up behind me and asked me, politely, if I had a CPL. I said I did, and said I know that OC is legal in this state, which he said he knew that it is legal. He asked to see my CPL and to get it without using my right hand (strong side). While I'm contorting myself to get my wallet from right hip pocket with my left hand, he is explaining to me that a couple people told him about me. He explained to me that he was just up doing paperwork on a shop-lifter. (I guess the guy legally carrying a gun is more important business than the criminal...) He told me that I was causing alarm and that he would appreciate me covering. I said that I know Washington State law says that just carrying a gun in a holster is NOT enough to warrant alarm. He said "I'm not realy sure about the law on that." He then told me"I can take your gun, but I don't want to." I think he was just trying to intimidate me.

    After checking that my ID matched my CPL, and after putting on my CC vest, he said thanks and left. I think many people that were around while this happened might have thought it weird that I wasn't arrested. I'm having mixed feelings about this stop. I feel like he undermined the law and my rights here. But I also feel like it is a partial win for our side, since lots of people saw the incident handledwell by the law abiding gun-carrier. Not to mention, they saw me getting to keep my gun.

    So, I'm thinking I need to call the Kent police dept. to make a complaint. Another example of "not all cops know how this works yet".

    The greedy part of me almost wishes that he took my gun, so I'd get that payday like some otherson these boardscould be getting...

    Any advice on my next course of action will be appreciated.

    Almost forgot, I have a bunch of our pamphlets in my truck and at home but unfortunately, we took my wife's suburban to the store, hence, no pamphlets...







    Certified Glock Armorer

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    State Researcher
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    File a complaint. What the cop did was wrong plain and simple.

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    I said that I know Washington State law says that just carrying a gun in a holster is NOT enough to warrant alarm.


    Careful there. It's not a law, it's a court case. I can't remember which one or if it's published or not. Can someone refresh our memories please?

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    Regular Member Gene Beasley's Avatar
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    deanf wrote:
    I said that I know Washington State law says that just carrying a gun in a holster is NOT enough to warrant alarm.

    Careful there. It's not a law, it's a court case. I can't remember which one or if it's published or not. Can someone refresh our memories please?
    It's Casadand it's unpublished.

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    Regular Member Shy_Panda's Avatar
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    deanf wrote:
    I said that I know Washington State law says that just carrying a gun in a holster is NOT enough to warrant alarm.
    Careful there. It's not a law, it's a court case. I can't remember which one or if it's published or not. Can someone refresh our memories please?
    If memory serves it was the State V. Casad case where the courts determined that a holstered gun does notmeet enough of the'at a time and place and warrants alarm for the safety of others' criteria.

    Beat me to it Gene

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    Regular Member Gene Beasley's Avatar
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    I had to go back and reread Casad (okay, skim). It doesn't specifically mention holstered firearm, as Casad was OC rifles wrapped in a towel to be pawned. In the analysis, however it addresses legal OC, of which a holstered weapon is. State v. Casad at 10:
    Fourth, the trial court found that Casad did not carry the weapons in a manner that would warrant reasonable alarm. This factor is heavily contested by the parties, primarily based on individuals’ reactions to seeing a gun carried on a city street and whether Casad pointed one rifle barrel toward the roadway. We note that, in connection with this case, several individuals have commented that they would find it strange, maybe shocking, to see a man carrying a gun down the street in broad daylight. Casad’s appellate counsel conceded that she would personally react with shock, but she emphasized that an individual’s lack of comfort with firearms does not equate to reasonable alarm. We agree. It is not unlawful for a person to responsibly walk down the street with a visible firearm, even if this action would shock some people.
    [emphasis mine]

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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    Casad is unpublished, but State v. Spencer from 1994 in Federal Way is published opinion on OC. Unfortunately, he was convicted of breaking 9.41.270, so it's not nearly as strong as Casad, but at least it's published.

    ...I just can't find the darn documents online. I know Dave Workman has it in his book but can't find where he links to it on here (though he references it a few times). If someone else wants to try to find it, the guy's name is Randolf Spencer.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    Just got back from Reber Ranch, it's a tack and feed store where I get my dog food. This was my 2nd time OC'ing there and no incidents. The employees there are very friendly there and also very chatty.

    Thanks for the info on the Casad case. I knew I read about that before, just couldn't remember. Sorry, you're right. Not law, just case.
    Certified Glock Armorer

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    You might want to write a letter refering them to their own Kent city training bulletin dated 2/4/07 on the subject of OC.I made up a bunch of pamphlets and always attach the training bulletins to them.Seems to make the point .

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    Regular Member Shy_Panda's Avatar
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    This is State V Cassad.

    By the way, had the LEO tried to take your gun then I will let you figure out who is who once that case hit the courts.



    Hint: Gun owner = Freedom = Bald Eagle


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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    I think I'll wear this T-shirt next time I OC in Kent.

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    DEROS72 wrote:









    I think I'll wear this T-shirt next time I OC in Kent.
    In a social situation had a cop ask me if I had ever had a problem while open carrying and wearingthe hat I got at the VA. I said "No" and he just shook his head. My hat says "Dysfunctional Veteran, Leave Me Alone"

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    So glad to know I,m not the only dysfunctional Vet.Sort of.....wouldn,t know got my pain med script renewed today .......

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    Damn cat got into my meds again!!!!

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    He mellows out after a while and then I can never get the remote back and drinks all my beer......

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    So then I got my daughter a dog but he wouldn,t fetch......... sorry off topic


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    Regular Member Shy_Panda's Avatar
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    Looks like there are quite a few of us on here.

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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    SNIP My hat says "Dysfunctional Veteran, Leave Me Alone"
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    The greedy part of me almost wishes that he took my gun, so I'd get that payday like some others on these boards could be getting...
    You know, I kinda wish we could retire this particular motif. Not only is there the underlying issue (what do we really want--our constitutional freedom to keep and bear arms, or a little bit of money?) , but in addition it makes us sound unnecessarily confrontational, especially if some observer here takes it out of context (missing the <irony> tags, etc.)

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    kparker wrote:
    The greedy part of me almost wishes that he took my gun, so I'd get that payday like some others on these boards could be getting...
    You know, I kinda wish we could retire this particular motif. Not only is there the underlying issue (what do we really want--our constitutional freedom to keep and bear arms, or a little bit of money?) , but in addition it makes us sound unnecessarily confrontational, especially if some observer here takes it out of context (missing the <irony> tags, etc.)
    And could easily be used against you in Court .. Besides nobody's won any huge settlements over this.

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    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    It's not the money that's the issue. Though, that would certainly get the police dept.'s attention and maybe make them think twice before illegally disarming someone...
    Certified Glock Armorer

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    A 1911 that works properly is as rare as a Glock that doesn't.

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    1. Didn't have to show a CPL, you were OC.

    2.Would have stated that if he wanted to takethe gun I would not resist, but that he could count on a follow up for illegal seizure of property and you would see him and his local precinct in court about it.

    3. When he than decided taking your gun would be a bad idea... "Am I being detained? No? Have a nice day officer."

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    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    Thanks David,since this was my first LEO encounter I wasn't exactly in top shape, but what you just said above is what I'll be saying next time I'm stopped. The more I think about it, the more I realize he was just trying to intimidate me.
    Certified Glock Armorer

    "A government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen..." -- Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App.181)

    A 1911 that works properly is as rare as a Glock that doesn't.

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    David.Car wrote:
    1. Didn't have to show a CPL, you were OC.

    2.Would have stated that if he wanted to takethe gun I would not resist, but that he could count on a follow up for illegal seizure of property and you would see him and his local precinct in court about it.

    3. When he than decided taking your gun would be a bad idea... "Am I being detained? No? Have a nice day officer."
    Why do you want everyone to be so frickin' confrontational? The CPL, IDhim and tells the copthe opcan legally own a gun and are thus legal to OC. It didn't hurt him at all and actually if you have a CPL, CC or notand the cop asks for it, you must produce it. Hell, the cop went away happy and nobody was harmed. Your way gets cops pissed off and start looking for ways to screw with you. I just don't understand your desire to make everything as bad as it can be made.

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