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Thread: Perhaps Clarification Is Due:

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    Prequel: While we all understand that our views don't entirely coincide, however, I'm sure what i am about to type will 'fit' (give or take some facts..) with the majority of how we all/majority feel. Okay:

    Police are great. The quarter panels of their squad cars even say "To Protect and Serve". They help in solving AND preventing crimes. They stick up for people that can't stick up for themselves, and are able to make a difference. In fact, i don't think i even need to give anymore examples.

    NOW: Whats our [Certain people/OCers] problem? Let me know if I have it right: We are pissed that the above is not what we experience. The above is what we are taught to think from a very young age and dare i say; up till we have a negative encounter.

    Again, i think it is very important to show ANY LEO respect, but if its not reciprocated: negativity will ensue and effectively "continue the cycle" as stated above.

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    agreed.

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    33itmefs wrote:
    ProtectedBy9mm wrote:
    Prequel: While we all understand that our views don't entirely coincide, however, I'm sure what i am about to type will 'fit' (give or take some facts..) with the majority of how we all/majority feel. Okay:

    Police are great. The quarter panels of their squad cars even say "To Protect and Serve". They help in solving AND preventing crimes. They stick up for people that can't stick up for themselves, and are able to make a difference. In fact, i don't think i even need to give anymore examples.

    NOW: Whats our [Certain people/OCers] problem? Let me know if I have it right: We are pissed that the above is not what we experience. The above is what we are taught to think from a very young age and dare i say; up till we have a negative encounter.

    Again, i think it is very important to show ANY LEO respect, but if its not reciprocated: negativity will ensue and effectively "continue the cycle" as stated above.
    Why did this post die? Because of its opposition, its bad? Just discuss with us, I promise we will both learn something.
    From reading the posts on this site I believe most of the LEO encounter start on what I consider "private property", retail stores. With that being said I agree that it very improtant to show all LEOs respect. A lot of these encounter orginated from a MWAG call from an uniformed civilian or a store employee who doesn't want to confront the OCer directly. At that point the LEO are trying to figure out what is really going on and if the store chooses to ask you to leave their property. I don't believe this is an injustice by a LEO they are just upholding the rights of the property owner.

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    The MWAG report just shouldn't go passed dispatch.

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    33itmefs wrote:
    ProtectedBy9mm wrote:
    The MWAG report just shouldn't go passed dispatch.
    ...training is NEVER what it should be.
    Well: It sounds like the we have found an answer then. Mandatory continued education for LEO? I mean, if they just don't buy 1 2008 Dodge Charger for any single department, it could be funded. No?



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    33itmefs wrote:
    ProtectedBy9mm wrote:
    33itmefs wrote:
    ProtectedBy9mm wrote:
    The MWAG report just shouldn't go passed dispatch.
    ...training is NEVER what it should be.
    Well: It sounds like the we have found an answer then. Mandatory continued education for LEO? I mean, if they just don't buy 1 2008 Dodge Charger for any single department, it could be funded. No?

    By law there have mandatory 40 hours a year to keep their POST certification. But dispatchers only need 16(I think) post a year, and then on top of that more CME for whatever other certifications they have.
    Can you bring a guest? lol

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    33itmefs wrote:
    ProtectedBy9mm wrote:
    33itmefs wrote:
    ProtectedBy9mm wrote:
    33itmefs wrote:
    ProtectedBy9mm wrote:
    The MWAG report just shouldn't go passed dispatch.
    ...training is NEVER what it should be.
    Well: It sounds like the we have found an answer then. Mandatory continued education for LEO? I mean, if they just don't buy 1 2008 Dodge Charger for any single department, it could be funded. No?

    By law there have mandatory 40 hours a year to keep their POST certification. But dispatchers only need 16(I think) post a year, and then on top of that more CME for whatever other certifications they have.
    Can you bring a guest? lol
    If youre asking me on a date....get bent:celebrate
    You wish.


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    33itmefs wrote:
    ProtectedBy9mm wrote:
    33itmefs wrote:
    ProtectedBy9mm wrote:
    The MWAG report just shouldn't go passed dispatch.
    ...training is NEVER what it should be.
    Well: It sounds like the we have found an answer then. Mandatory continued education for LEO? I mean, if they just don't buy 1 2008 Dodge Charger for any single department, it could be funded. No?

    By law there have mandatory 40 hours a year to keep their POST certification. But dispatchers only need 16(I think) post a year, and then on top of that more CME for whatever other certifications they have.
    Haha, ya- but seriously:

    Good to know there is a continued education requirement. Now if we can just get them to wake up and pay attention in class. (Hardly serious comment..)

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    33itmefs wrote:
    ProtectedBy9mm wrote:
    33itmefs wrote:
    ProtectedBy9mm wrote:
    The MWAG report just shouldn't go passed dispatch.
    ...training is NEVER what it should be.
    Well: It sounds like the we have found an answer then. Mandatory continued education for LEO? I mean, if they just don't buy 1 2008 Dodge Charger for any single department, it could be funded. No?

    By law there have mandatory 40 hours a year to keep their POST certification. But dispatchers only need 16(I think) post a year, and then on top of that more CME for whatever other certifications they have.
    40 hours of annual continuing education is actually a pretty good requirement. (I'm comparing it to state licenses etc... that on average only require 24 hours every 2 years). Now if only we can require a class in gun laws....

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    ProtectedBy9mm
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    Posted: Mon Aug 11th, 2008 04:58 pm

    The MWAG report just shouldn't go passed dispatch.

    Perhaps, But imagine the lawsuits and liability issues if the MWAG is a threat and dispatch did not dispatch the information.

    Multiple injuries and possible fatalities. Who they gonna sue?

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    brokenarrows wrote:
    Protectedby9mm, "The MWAG report just shouldn't go passed dispatch."

    Perhaps, But imagine the lawsuits and liability issues if the MWAG is a threat and dispatch did not dispatch the information.

    Multiple injuries and possible fatalities. Who they gonna sue?
    Nobody. Lawsuits would go nowhere. There have already been a number of court rulings that the police are not obligated to protect people. They may get fired for not responding to a call; but they apparently can't be successfully sued.

    Anybody with a case cite, please chip in. I never recorded them.

    Protectedby9mm's comment about dispatch is in reference to dispatchers asking the nervous-nellie caller who is reporting an OCer what the man is doing with the gun. Ifnothingillegalis occurring, then 911 would notdispatch the officers.

    911: What is he doing with the gun? Caller: Nothing.

    911: Where is thegun? Caller: In a holster.

    911: What is he doing? Caller: Nothing, just eating/walking/reading/browsing the fresh fruit aisle, etc.

    911: That is perfectly legal, sir.

    A real life example is what the Manassas dispatcher did during the call that resulted in the Tony's incident in early 2007. Basically the dispatcher told the caller that OC was legal. Even told him something to the effect that his opinion and her opinion didn't matter, it was legal.

    You can hear the Manassas 911 call here: http://www.vcdl.org/Tonys/Tonys_911.mp3
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    brokenarrows wrote:
    Protectedby9mm, "The MWAG report just shouldn't go passed dispatch."

    Perhaps, But imagine the lawsuits and liability issues if the MWAG is a threat and dispatch did not dispatch the information.

    Multiple injuries and possible fatalities. Who they gonna sue?
    ....911: What is he doing with the gun? Caller: Nothing.

    911: Where is thegun? Caller: In a holster.

    911: What is he doing? Caller: Nothing, just eating/walking/reading/browsing the fresh fruit aisle, etc.

    911: That is perfectly legal, sir.

    A real life example is what the Manassas dispatcher did during the call that resulted in the Tony's incident in early 2007. Basically the dispatcher told the caller that OC was legal. Even told him something to the effect that his opinion and her opinion didn't matter, it was legal. .....

    You can hear the Manassas 911 call here: http://www.vcdl.org/Tonys/Tonys_911.mp3
    Thats what Im taling about! Thank you Citize:celebraten, this s what ive been trying to convey.

    EDIT: AND i just listened to that 911 dispatch call. HOLY FREAKIN LOL! hat dispatch lady needs to get some recognition or a freakin medal at least!

    HIM: "Im a retired marine and it really disturbs me. Does it make you feel uncomfortable?"
    HER: "it doesn't matter if it makes me feel comfortable, its the law, sir..."

    HAHAHAHAHAHA...

    ha.

    ....sry, im done.



  20. #20
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    I am not an LEO. I respect LEOs. I expect reciprocity. If they do not return respect, I do not get angry, I simply either explain myself and the involved laws/amendments or (if required) ask for a supervisor to come to the scene.
    Most LEOs appreciate and will return respect.

    I just listened to that 911 call. Very well handled by the operator.
    (Is it just me or do retired military guys like to mention out of the blue that they are retired military?)

  21. #21
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    Citizen wrote:
    brokenarrows wrote:
    Protectedby9mm, "The MWAG report just shouldn't go passed dispatch."

    Perhaps, But imagine the lawsuits and liability issues if the MWAG is a threat and dispatch did not dispatch the information.

    Multiple injuries and possible fatalities. Who they gonna sue?
    Nobody. Lawsuits would go nowhere. There have already been a number of court rulings that the police are not obligated to protect people. They may get fired for not responding to a call; but they apparently can't be successfully sued.

    Anybody with a case cite, please chip in. I never recorded them.

    Protectedby9mm's comment about dispatch is in reference to dispatchers asking the nervous-nellie caller who is reporting an OCer what the man is doing with the gun. Ifnothingillegalis occurring, then 911 would notdispatch the officers.

    911: What is he doing with the gun? Caller: Nothing.

    911: Where is thegun? Caller: In a holster.

    911: What is he doing? Caller: Nothing, just eating/walking/reading/browsing the fresh fruit aisle, etc.

    911: That is perfectly legal, sir.

    A real life example is what the Manassas dispatcher did during the call that resulted in the Tony's incident in early 2007. Basically the dispatcher told the caller that OC was legal. Even told him something to the effect that his opinion and her opinion didn't matter, it was legal.

    You can hear the Manassas 911 call here: http://www.vcdl.org/Tonys/Tonys_911.mp3
    This clarification was very helpful.

    Thank you

    And with the clarification I agree.

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