My first "OMG A MAN WITH A GUN" call

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stanicus wrote:

Venator wrote:

stanicus wrote:

I know that its not required to hand over ID or LTCH, but I figure that it makes things go smoother. Although I wouldn't allow them to take my firearm, but I don't want to start anything with the cops. I was calm and professional and they were too. It made for a much easier event. I can't say that I agree with the "Am I being detained!" folks. Although its their right, it puts the LEO on edge and makes you seem confrontational.

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Ah, well good to know you are so cooperative. I'm sure that's in the record, makes it easier when they come for your guns.

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Paranoid much?

Why is there no middle ground? Did I have to show him my ID? Maybe I didn't but when someone steals my lawnmower and I actually need to file a police report to get reimbursed from the insurance company. The police would remember whether the citizen with a gun or the @sshole with the gun lives there.

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Now who's paranoid.

Look do what you want, it's just that the police are going in a very dangerous direction in this county and the people are just letting them.

This all hit home when I was looking for some clipart of LEO last month and instead of finding the kindly officer helping a small child or the image of an LEO helping out a motorist, the majority of the clipart was of officers in SWAT and military gear brandishing military arms. It just struck me as WOW when did this happen. It scares the S**t out of me. What is happening to this country? Just my observation. So I choose to stand up to authority, perhaps it's my age, but I remember better times. There....done bitching for a while.

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stanicus wrote:

Venator wrote:

Mike wrote:

In IN a permit is required to OC - so since the police were responding to a report of a man with a gun in public - kinda does make sense to show the pemit else they just might stake out your house till the next time you carry.

real problem here is that IN requires pemrit to OC.

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But not in your house or yard????

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A 911 call was made. How do they know I really live there and am not holding someone hostage? If I said no and shut my door, they would have broken it down and tazed me. Sure they would have been in the wrong and I could have raised a big stink. Or i could act the way I did and things could go smooth. Hmmmmmm what seems a little less waste of my time? Which one would leave me with less urine stains on my pants and tazer burn marks on my shirt?

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Of course all speculation. They would need probable cause or a warrant, but hey whatever you feel you had to do.

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Stanicus...


It isn't that wanting to be co-operative with others is a bad thing. And no one is say that all the people that wear the uniform are bad people out to get you.

The concern is that many people submit over willingly to authority. Then, when that authority is used against THEM later, they wonder why.

The shock on their face is always the same, as the situation becomes "I was always a good citizen, I don't commit crimes, etc." They are surprised that the individuals in power would use that power against THEM.

Where the disconnect happens is people in power tend to not care about the ones they exercise the power over. Why should they? They are in power.

It is much like an ant, just before you step on it, saying "Why me? I never bit you!" The ant is no threat to you, so why would you care? It is just an ant.

Again, I am not saying that all police are this way, or even a majority are. But there is a significant number of people that go into law enforcement to gain authority, power. They are the ones who make things up, or try to enforce their own opinions as law.

The point is: Be careful thinking of police as "your friend", who you want to help as much as you can. Just because you have been on "their side" multiple times before, doesn't mean they will reciprocate. They tolerate you. Irritate them, and they will turn on you.

It sounds like a dark, gloomy way of viewing things. But the point is, if you don't act with caution, you might find yourself wishing you had just a bit more cynicism when it comes to those in authority.

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Boy, this thread didn't go where I thought it would.

Thanks to the OP for posting it. Shame on those who crapped in it.

I'm with the "don't provide anything not asked" camp, but to be stand-offish with police officers... especially when you've got your ducks in a row... is just asking to be further inconvenienced.

John

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Venator wrote:

stanicus wrote:

Venator wrote:

stanicus wrote:

I know that its not required to hand over ID or LTCH, but I figure that it makes things go smoother. Although I wouldn't allow them to take my firearm, but I don't want to start anything with the cops. I was calm and professional and they were too. It made for a much easier event. I can't say that I agree with the "Am I being detained!" folks. Although its their right, it puts the LEO on edge and makes you seem confrontational.

Click to expand...

Ah, well good to know you are so cooperative.  I'm sure that's in the record, makes it easier when they come for your guns.

Click to expand...

Paranoid much?

Why is there no middle ground? Did I have to show him my ID? Maybe I didn't but when someone steals my lawnmower and I actually need to file a police report to get reimbursed from the insurance company. The police would remember whether the citizen with a gun or the @sshole with the gun lives there.

Click to expand...

Now who's paranoid. 

Look do what you want, it's just that the police are going in a very dangerous direction in this county and the people are just letting them.

This all hit home when I was looking for some clipart of LEO last month and instead of finding the kindly officer helping a small child or the image of an LEO helping out a motorist, the majority of the clipart was of officers in SWAT and military gear brandishing military arms.  It just struck me as WOW when did this happen.  It scares the S**t out of me.  What is happening to this country?  Just my observation.  So I choose to stand up to authority, perhaps it's my age, but I remember better times.  There....done bitching for a while.

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It's not your age. I, for one, am more afraid of this than any other danger we, as Americans, face.

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marshaul wrote:

Venator wrote:

stanicus wrote:

Venator wrote:

stanicus wrote:

I know that its not required to hand over ID or LTCH, but I figure that it makes things go smoother. Although I wouldn't allow them to take my firearm, but I don't want to start anything with the cops. I was calm and professional and they were too. It made for a much easier event. I can't say that I agree with the "Am I being detained!" folks. Although its their right, it puts the LEO on edge and makes you seem confrontational.

Click to expand...

Ah, well good to know you are so cooperative. I'm sure that's in the record, makes it easier when they come for your guns.

Click to expand...

Paranoid much?

Why is there no middle ground? Did I have to show him my ID? Maybe I didn't but when someone steals my lawnmower and I actually need to file a police report to get reimbursed from the insurance company. The police would remember whether the citizen with a gun or the @sshole with the gun lives there.

Click to expand...

Now who's paranoid.

Look do what you want, it's just that the police are going in a very dangerous direction in this county and the people are just letting them.

This all hit home when I was looking for some clipart of LEO last month and instead of finding the kindly officer helping a small child or the image of an LEO helping out a motorist, the majority of the clipart was of officers in SWAT and military gear brandishing military arms. It just struck me as WOW when did this happen. It scares the S**t out of me. What is happening to this country? Just my observation. So I choose to stand up to authority, perhaps it's my age, but I remember better times. There....done bitching for a while.

Click to expand...

It's not your age. I, for one, am more afraid of this than any other danger we, as Americans, face.

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WAIT!........more afraid of the cops actions or more afraid of the guy who is tweaked by the cops actions?

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stanicus wrote:

marshaul wrote:

Venator wrote:

stanicus wrote:

Venator wrote:

stanicus wrote:

I know that its not required to hand over ID or LTCH, but I figure that it makes things go smoother. Although I wouldn't allow them to take my firearm, but I don't want to start anything with the cops. I was calm and professional and they were too. It made for a much easier event. I can't say that I agree with the "Am I being detained!" folks. Although its their right, it puts the LEO on edge and makes you seem confrontational.

Click to expand...

Ah, well good to know you are so cooperative. I'm sure that's in the record, makes it easier when they come for your guns.

Click to expand...

Paranoid much?

Why is there no middle ground? Did I have to show him my ID? Maybe I didn't but when someone steals my lawnmower and I actually need to file a police report to get reimbursed from the insurance company. The police would remember whether the citizen with a gun or the @sshole with the gun lives there.

Click to expand...

Now who's paranoid.

Look do what you want, it's just that the police are going in a very dangerous direction in this county and the people are just letting them.

This all hit home when I was looking for some clipart of LEO last month and instead of finding the kindly officer helping a small child or the image of an LEO helping out a motorist, the majority of the clipart was of officers in SWAT and military gear brandishing military arms. It just struck me as WOW when did this happen. It scares the S**t out of me. What is happening to this country? Just my observation. So I choose to stand up to authority, perhaps it's my age, but I remember better times. There....done bitching for a while.

Click to expand...

It's not your age. I, for one, am more afraid of this than any other danger we, as Americans, face.

Click to expand...

WAIT!........more afraid of the cops actions or more afraid of the guy who is tweaked by the cops actions?

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I hope it's not me:shock:

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Stanicus, I think you did very well. I had an encounter with San Diego PD back in the late 80s after helping a man to get away from the gang that had already killed his dog and was now targeting him. The police were polite and professional and the encounter was over within 30 minutes. (They stuck around to search the area, but left me alone)

A year and a few months later I was apartment sitting in the San Ysidro area and needed to go to the store, so I strapped on my Glock and headed out. As I was walking to the store a cruiser pulled up and the cop asked me if I was the guy at the call he'd responded to off of Balboa Park the previous year. We determined that I was and he asked if I was carrying. I confirmed I was and he said "Good. You NEED a weapon around here." After a few more pleasantries he left and I completed my store run.

My point is that I was polite to them and they were polite to me. That obviously left the impression of "responsible gun owner" that allowed me to get away with illegally carrying a concealed weapon. The cop knew I was carrying illegally. But he also knew I knew how to use it and was able to tell when to shoot and when not to. That goes a long way.

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I am also from N'ville and wondered how carry-friendly the PD was. Are you close to Roudebush woods?? I'm trying to remember where I know Searay Dr from (I think I used to off-road back there when it was firstlaid out as a neighborhood). Anyway, I would have done the same thing, although I know quite a few of the PD. I would have no problem showing them my ID. Personal thing I guess.

I live over by the hospital on the other side of town, I know most of my neighbors and doubt anyone would have a problem. I think if terrorists invaded our little community, most would flock to my house anyway.

Thanks for the story.

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skohler wrote:

I am also from N'ville and wondered how carry-friendly the PD was.  Are you close to Roudebush woods??  I'm trying to remember where I know Searay Dr from (I think I used to off-road back there when it was first laid out as a neighborhood).  Anyway, I would have done the same thing, although I know quite a few of the PD.  I would have no problem showing them my ID.  Personal thing I guess.

I live over by the hospital on the other side of town, I know most of my neighbors and doubt anyone would have a problem.  I think if terrorists invaded our little community, most would flock to my house anyway.

Thanks for the story.

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Yep, I am near Roudebush Woods. Glad to finally hear a couple people agree that there is some middle ground. One of the NPD lives in my neighborhood. I know most of my neighbors are better armed than myself. A couple have small arsenals, so I know where to head if the sh*t hits the fan. :celebrate

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I don't have a problem when they are being respectful and pofessional.
If they are being cordial and engaging in the flow of information and answering
questions I have on why they are there as well.
But if they are being sob's then by all means you hold the line on your rights.
Just part of being there you have to make judgements. Just look at the
new orleans incident last week by the parish police, there you don't
give up anything.

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I can't see why it would be a problem to show ID. I would rather them ask me for ID then let the gangbanger carrying illegally walk around without anyone stopping them.



I would gladly answer anything they wanted. The last thing we really need is a bunch of LEOs thinking we're anti-authority and carrying a loaded weapon. I for one would like the polcie to see us as what we are, a group of people who believe in defending thierselves and their fellow hoosiers. The LEO can't assume its my house and that I'm not up to no good. For their protection, and mine.

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ImChad wrote:

I can't see why it would be a problem to show ID. I would rather them ask me for ID then let the gangbanger carrying illegally walk around without anyone stopping them.



I would gladly answer anything they wanted. The last thing we really need is a bunch of LEOs thinking we're anti-authority and carrying a loaded weapon. I for one would like the polcie to see us as what we are, a group of people who believe in defending thierselves and their fellow hoosiers. The LEO can't assume its my house and that I'm not up to no good. For their protection, and mine.

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Being required to show ID is a form of passive-aggressive behavior.

It is an attempt by the officer to show you that he is in control, and you must do what he says, simply because he says so. (This is assuming there is no ID requirement in your state.)

There is a significant difference between an officer requesting that I show him ID.
Politely asking me, and being willing to accept my refusal without further harassment, is going to earn the officer a great deal more of my respect.

Just remember. WE are the people. The GOVERNMENT (and its agents) serves the PEOPLE, not the other way around.

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Phoenixphire wrote:

ImChad wrote:

I can't see why it would be a problem to show ID. I would rather them ask me for ID then let the gangbanger carrying illegally walk around without anyone stopping them.



I would gladly answer anything they wanted. The last thing we really need is a bunch of LEOs thinking we're anti-authority and carrying a loaded weapon. I for one would like the polcie to see us as what we are, a group of people who believe in defending thierselves and their fellow hoosiers. The LEO can't assume its my house and that I'm not up to no good. For their protection, and mine.

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Being required to show ID is a form of passive-aggressive behavior.

It is an attempt by the officer to show you that he is in control, and you must do what he says, simply because he says so. (This is assuming there is no ID requirement in your state.)

There is a significant difference between an officer requesting that I show him ID.
Politely asking me, and being willing to accept my refusal without further harassment, is going to earn the officer a great deal more of my respect.

Just remember. WE are the people. The GOVERNMENT (and its agents) serves the PEOPLE, not the other way around.

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I see what you're getting at, I just don't agree. A LEO can demand my ID as much as he/she wants. I've got nothing to hide, nor do I fear them. I can't see what can be gained by making LEO's think we're a bunch of anti-authority nutjobs ranting about the constitution every time we're stopped. Then, we become a threat to them and the vicious circle starts. No, thanks but I'll pass.

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ImChad wrote:

I can't see why it would be a problem to show ID. I would rather them ask me for ID then let the gangbanger carrying illegally walk around without anyone stopping them.



I would gladly answer anything they wanted. The last thing we really need is a bunch of LEOs thinking we're anti-authority and carrying a loaded weapon. I for one would like the polcie to see us as what we are, a group of people who believe in defending thierselves and their fellow hoosiers. The LEO can't assume its my house and that I'm not up to no good. For their protection, and mine.

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That's a gooood boooooy. Then you will be the first one loaded on the trains.

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You've got a point. Its a better idea to be combative with the police. Sometime i get really scared to be casted in the same light as some of you people. I own firearms <--edit ) to protect myself and my family, not overthrow a government. Suppose you don't get "loaded onthe train" are you going to gain air superiority? No, probably not. better ground forces, tanks, weapons and ammunition? No, probably not there either. So then what? Suppose they have a "train" to load us on and fema camps do exist in the same form. Who are they going to be loading up? the guy who says he'd comply with LEO's or the guy who thinks the governemnt is out to get him, and he's armed?





I'm betting, if I do make it to the "train" you and I will be able to get a game of cards in.

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ImChad wrote:

You've got a point. Its a better idea to be combative with the police. Sometime i get really scared to be casted in the same light as some of you people. I carry to protect myself and my family, not overthrow a government. Suppose you don't get "loaded onthe train" are you going to gain air superiority? No, probably not. better ground forces, tanks, weapons and ammunition? No, probably not there either. So then what? Suppose they have a "train" to load us on and fema camps do exist in the same form. Who are they going to be loading up? the guy who says he'd comply with LEO's or the guy who thinks the governemnt is out to get him, and he's armed?





I'm betting, if I do make it to the "train" you and I will be able to get a game of cards in.

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Hopefully I'll be dead by then. Hard to play cards with a dead man, takes the fun out of it. No peeking at my cards Oh wait he won't care he's dead. I'm all in.:lol:

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Venator wrote:

ImChad wrote:

You've got a point. Its a better idea to be combative with the police. Sometime i get really scared to be casted in the same light as some of you people. I carry to protect myself and my family, not overthrow a government. Suppose you don't get "loaded onthe train" are you going to gain air superiority? No, probably not. better ground forces, tanks, weapons and ammunition? No, probably not there either. So then what? Suppose they have a "train" to load us on and fema camps do exist in the same form. Who are they going to be loading up? the guy who says he'd comply with LEO's or the guy who thinks the governemnt is out to get him, and he's armed?





I'm betting, if I do make it to the "train" you and I will be able to get a game of cards in.

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Hopefully I'll be dead by then. Hard to play cards with a dead man, takes the fun out of it. No peeking at my cards Oh wait he won't care he's dead. I'm all in.:lol:

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LMFAO. If you're serious, could you please hit the ATM before you go? I can't play with no money, it takes the fun out of dead guy poker.

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ImChad wrote:

Venator wrote:

ImChad wrote:

You've got a point. Its a better idea to be combative with the police. Sometime i get really scared to be casted in the same light as some of you people. I carry to protect myself and my family, not overthrow a government. Suppose you don't get "loaded onthe train" are you going to gain air superiority? No, probably not. better ground forces, tanks, weapons and ammunition? No, probably not there either. So then what? Suppose they have a "train" to load us on and fema camps do exist in the same form. Who are they going to be loading up? the guy who says he'd comply with LEO's or the guy who thinks the governemnt is out to get him, and he's armed?





I'm betting, if I do make it to the "train" you and I will be able to get a game of cards in.

Click to expand...

Hopefully I'll be dead by then. Hard to play cards with a dead man, takes the fun out of it. No peeking at my cards Oh wait he won't care he's dead. I'm all in.:lol:

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LMFAO. If you're serious, could you please hit the ATM before you go? I can't play with no money, it takes the fun out of dead guy poker.

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I won't have any money as how I spent it all on the revolution! All I'll have left is my stinking corpse. I'll raise ya.

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Venator wrote:

ImChad wrote:

Venator wrote:

ImChad wrote:

You've got a point. Its a better idea to be combative with the police. Sometime i get really scared to be casted in the same light as some of you people. I carry to protect myself and my family, not overthrow a government. Suppose you don't get "loaded onthe train" are you going to gain air superiority? No, probably not. better ground forces, tanks, weapons and ammunition? No, probably not there either. So then what? Suppose they have a "train" to load us on and fema camps do exist in the same form. Who are they going to be loading up? the guy who says he'd comply with LEO's or the guy who thinks the governemnt is out to get him, and he's armed?





I'm betting, if I do make it to the "train" you and I will be able to get a game of cards in.

Click to expand...

Hopefully I'll be dead by then. Hard to play cards with a dead man, takes the fun out of it. No peeking at my cards Oh wait he won't care he's dead. I'm all in.:lol:

Click to expand...

LMFAO. If you're serious, could you please hit the ATM before you go? I can't play with no money, it takes the fun out of dead guy poker.

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I won't have any money as how I spent it all on the revolution! All I'll have left is my stinking corpse. I'll raise ya.

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Theres a good chance that when doomsday comes, all the food will be gone. I'll probably cook your corpse and sell it all off as chicken.