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Unleashed Dogs

deepdiver

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If my dog gets loose and attacks someone and is seriously hurt or killed, I will be heartbroken about the situation on many levels.

If my dog is not and does not hurt anyone and they seriously hurt or kill my dog, I hope they have made their peace with their maker because that is their next stop regardless of the means I have handy.
 

ChuckB

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Bill in VA wrote:
Protector84, if you've got something to say to me about being a dog owner, say it. Don't bandy words.

As far as "rights" show me where in the US Consitution you have a right to go anywhere. Your "right" to walk down the street and to have a quiet nightis the same "right" that dog owners have.You seem to have a hard time understanding what "rights" are. You do not have a "right" to walk down the street, nor do you have a "right" to a quiet, bark-free night.If it troubles you that much, buy a set of ear plugs. You have that "right" too.

Barking dogs? Yes, dogs bark. Children scream and and holler when they play. Children ocassionally run off of their parents' property just like dogs run off of their masters' property. There's even less excuse for poorly-behaved children because you at least reason with them. Ever try to reason with an animal? Did you ever consider that perhaps a dog's barking is not just a greeting, but also a way to warn his master? I encourage my dogs to bark when they hear the doorbell, someone's in the yard, etc...

You'd also do well consider your comments about being threatened with deadly force by a dog versus your "right" to draw and shoot. There are thousands of dog bites per year, but damned few deaths attributed to dog bites. Based on that logic, it would appear a dog bite is not a threat of "deadly force." I don't know you, but you strike me as some kid with a holster on his hip and a chip on his shoulder and waaaay too much testosterone. One final hint for you about canine behavior, run away from a dog and he will chase you.

That said, should anybody shoot my dog in a public street, I will shoot back. No threat, just a promise.
I think you're way off base here....That's why virtually all municipalities have ordinances in effect to cover this. If your dog is coninuously barking after a certain hour you "usually" are in violation of some sort of law. You're attitude seems to me to be "screw everyone else, it's my dog and he'll bark if he wants to". That's not the approach I think anyone should take... It's about respect for others, I am a dog owner and if my dog is continuously barking even during the day I say something to him. If it's at night he comes in immediately... Just common courtesy. Not trying to ruffle feathers, JMHO.
 

protector84

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Protector84, if you've got something to say to me about being a dog owner, say it. Don't bandy words.

As far as "rights" show me where in the US Consitution you have a right to go anywhere. Your "right" to walk down the street and to have a quiet nightis the same "right" that dog owners have.You seem to have a hard time understanding what "rights" are. You do not have a "right" to walk down the street, nor do you have a "right" to a quiet, bark-free night.If it troubles you that much, buy a set of ear plugs. You have that "right" too.
Bill, I'm afraid you seem quite out of line here. Maybe there isn't anything in the U.S. Constitution that specifically says a right to walk down a street in peace and quiet but there are other laws that protect that right. Perhaps every state, county, and municipality is different but the truth is in most areas of the country, people do have a legal right to reasonable safety when moving from point A to point B and people do have the legal right to reasonable peace and quiet. Like I said, here in Arizona, you are violating the law if your dogs are in the public street unleashed, if they bite people, if they bark or threaten in a way that disturbs the peace. I have witnessed animal control ticketing a neighbor for consistently letting his dogs get out. A neighbor went for a walk every morning for exercise and consistently the other neighbor's dogs kept getting out and threatening him. He reported it to the police once and I guess at that point nothing had happened. One morning the dogs got out and one of them bit him. He called the cops, they issued citations to the owners and both dogs were impounded and I don't believe they were ever returned. It may be of your opinion that you and your dogs are God and can do whatever you want and screw everyone else, but that is not true in the eyes of the law.

I will say again, that it is a right by law here in Phoenix to walk down any public street any day or night for whatever reason. There is no curfew here for adults, you do not have to show your papers, or have a valid reason to be on any public road at any time. The same is not true about dogs unleashed, threatening people, and disturbing the peace.


Barking dogs? Yes, dogs bark. Children scream and and holler when they play. Children ocassionally run off of their parents' property just like dogs run off of their masters' property. There's even less excuse for poorly-behaved children because you at least reason with them. Ever try to reason with an animal? Did you ever consider that perhaps a dog's barking is not just a greeting, but also a way to warn his master? I encourage my dogs to bark when they hear the doorbell, someone's in the yard, etc...
You are missing the point. I don't care about dogs barking a little bit or children screaming a little bit. If it is midnight and kids or dogs are making excessive noise for prolonged periods of time, that is illegal according to city ordinance and police will issue citations. Likewise, it is at least a city ordinance if not a state law that dogs be kept under control. If kids or dogs accidently get out, that is the risk you as a parent or owner run but the law stays the same. If a kid "accidently" falls in the swimming pool and drowns, you are going to prison for criminal negligence. The same applies if your dog gets out and mauls someone to death. You will go to prison.
You'd also do well consider your comments about being threatened with deadly force by a dog versus your "right" to draw and shoot. There are thousands of dog bites per year, but damned few deaths attributed to dog bites. Based on that logic, it would appear a dog bite is not a threat of "deadly force." I don't know you, but you strike me as some kid with a holster on his hip and a chip on his shoulder and waaaay too much testosterone. One final hint for you about canine behavior, run away from a dog and he will chase you.
Your personal attacks against me are inappropriate and against the rules of the forum and if they continue, I am reporting you to the moderator.


That said, should anybody shoot my dog in a public street, I will shoot back. No threat, just a promise.

I take all such threats very seriously and if you don't retract your statement, I will report you to the police.
 

Citizen

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protector84 wrote:
SNIP Maybe there isn't anything in the U.S. Constitution that specifically says a right to walk down a street in peace and quiet ...
9th Amendment:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
 

ODA 226

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I think that there are some here that are looking for any excuse to kill a dog. IMHO, many of the stories posted here show that some immediately draw their weapons if they feel intimidated by the dog and prior to any real attack.

Someone shot and killed my dog while he was in my fenced-in yard. While he was a very large Sarplaninac, he was not a threat to anyone.

Use the same amount of discretion in drawing on a dog as you would with a human being. Anything less is criminal.
 

unreconstructed1

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Bill in VA wrote:
Dogs bark because they can't speak. If a dog's tail is up, if his ears are up, and if his hackles are down he's not in the attack mode, even if he's barking or at running at you. (Ever consider he might even be trying to greet you?) It's when his hackles are up, his ears are pinned back, his tail is down, he's growling, etc... that he's ready to attack. And even then, it's likely because you've done something...intruded on his territoy, somewhow threatened him or his home/family/master. I have one dog who's fiercely loyal to me and my wife, and another who's nothing but a year-old puppy. The puppy barks at anyone new and will try to run to them. On occasion he has gotten away from me/my wife and as soon as he's at the person or dog he's barking at he's rolling and fawning all over them. All he wants is attention. And if someoen ever shot him because he got away from me and ran towards them, I belive I'd burn thier house down.


Bill, I know exactly where you are coming from. I have an 85 lb boxer in my front yard. Rebel is about the sweetest dog you ever met, as long as you aren't exhibiting openly aggresive behavior towards me. When someone comes into my yard you'd think he was about to take a chunk out of their rears, but when he gets tere, he does nothing but bark and wag. that is the beauty opf it. those who don't know him, and thus would have no bussiness in my yard will stay out because he is intimidating. not to mention the fact that he DEFINITELY lets me know whenever someone is approaching. now if someone ever shot rebel, there'd be hell to pay.

on the other hand, dogs can attack. if I were confronted by a dog showing the classic symptoms of aggresion, and I ahd my family to think about, I would most likely shoot as well. many people don't know what an attacking dog looks like and will feel threatened by their very presence. that is why we dog owners have to be careful.
 

ilbob

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deepdiver wrote:
If my dog gets loose and attacks someone and is seriously hurt or killed, I will be heartbroken about the situation on many levels.

If my dog is not and does not hurt anyone and they seriously hurt or kill my dog, I hope they have made their peace with their maker because that is their next stop regardless of the means I have handy.

I hope your dog never gets out and someone deals with it and you have to make good on your cheap threat. I have always had dogs, but they are my responsibility. not someone else's. if they get out from under my control and get hurt, that is my fault. And I have to accept the responsibility for that and not try to blame someone else.

I like dogs. They are nice to have around for various reasons. I also understand there are some people who just should not have dogs because they refuse to accept responsibility for keeping them under control. It is one thing if a dog gets loose once in a while. That does sometimes happen.It is something else if an irresponsible dog owner just refuses to keep his dog under control.

But once the dog is out of your control, what happens to him is your fault. Not the dogs, and not someone who comes in contact with your dog. Man up, and stop trying to blame others for your own shortcomings.

Having said that,I have only run across one dog in my entire life that actually scared me, and I have encountered many hundreds of them. My wife's niece owns a pit bull. We went to visit her one time and the dog went completely nuts and tried to attack my wife and I. If her niece had not stopped the dog, it was very clear the dog would have ripped one or bothof us to shreds. This same dog is normally the most friendly and lovable pet you can imagine. God only knows what set her off. That experience convinced me that the lovable family pet argument is bogus in determing whether a dog is likely to attack.
 

rodbender

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I have 2 dogs next door that have attacked my dog several times. Luckily shehas not been hurt yet.I have called the sheriff dept. (on a Sunday) and animal control a couple of times (during the week). My neighbors have been cited once to the tune of $125 for letting the dog run loose, and warned that the dogswould be euthanized if it continued. Thesheriff's deputyhas told them that I have the right to protect my property (the dog)by any means necessary. I have told my neighbor as well as the deputy that if I catch them off the leash AND on my property, I will kill these dogs. I would not have a dog that torments my neighbors.

We have had Sunshine almost 10 years now, and have become extremely attached to her. If she were to start threatening any of my neighbors, I would shoot her myself. There have been too many incidents where dogs running loose, especially in a pack,have attacked and killed people to take a chance that you won't wind up dog food.

I love dogs as much as the next guy, but everyone has a different perception of what a threat is. If mine were to leave my property (which she will not do), and someonefelt threatened by her and ended her life, well, that is that. I'm sorry but a human life is worth much more than any dog, I don't care ifit was world champion everything 8 years running.

If your kids love your dog, then keep 'em in. Then you won't have to explain to themhow you were stupidenough to let it getout and get whacked by a crazed gunman.
 

protector84

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Dogs can be very fun and interesting animals although I am not crazy about them and a lot of times they do make me nervous. While any animal is prone to bizarre and unexpected behavior, properly trained dogs and responsible owners can reasonably ensure safety and respect in a neighborhood. I am no dog expert, but I have observed a few trends. One is that dogs that tend to bark excessively at every moving object and for long periods of time tend to be dogs who are not taken for walks. Quite a large number of dog owners sad to say are very lazy when it comes to responsibility toward their pets. A cat can roam around free and you don't have to worry about it. Dogs on the other hand need exercise and need to go for walks. Dog owners should at least take their dogs for walks 2-3 times per day and preferably once in the morning and once in the evening. While that is my opinion I am sure that reputable vetrinarians would have a similar view. Dogs that are regularly exposed to the public (people, cars, etc.) are not likely to bark at everything and everyone. Dogs that are couped up constantly naturally are going to get bored and bark. Regardless, it is the responsibility of the owners to take care of them which means if people are trying to sleep and the dog is barking, they need to bring it inside the house.

While I cannot say it for certain, such dogs that are given public exposure are also less likely to be aggressive dogs. Dogs can be well-trained to protect a property if actually given the proper training. Poorly trained dogs will often act intimidating and annoying to the general public but I have heard from dog owners themselves that often when a real property threat comes, the dog actually gets scared and is relatively useless in the time of need. Even properly trained dogs need to be under the control of their masters due to unexpected variables. A dog may be trained to protect the property but you hear of tragedies over a pitbull attacking a 2-year-old child who accidently threw a toy at it or an old friend who came over and the dog thought it was an intruder. Also, having unleashed and dangerous dogs in the front yard of a house who would bite or attack someone who entered the front yard may well be illegal. Unless there is a posted "No Trespassing" sign on the front yard, it is not illegal for someone to enter your front yard until given a verbal warning not to come over. A neighbor or friend may legitimately want to knock on your door. The Cable TV person or the mailman may need to come up to the house. There are legitimate reasons for people to approach the front door and a front yard is not given the same type of legal property protection as a fenced back yard or the inside of the house would. If a mailman gets bitten trying to deliver mail because your dog was "protecting the property" the dog owner is likely to receive criminal charges in addition to civil lawsuits. It is highly likely that the sheriff would order the dog euthanized as well.

Personally, I don't think animals are the best type of home defense because they are unstable. Having a dog designed to tear the shreds out of someone who breaks into the house is akin to having a shotgun rigged up to shoot someone who comes in the front door. While it would work on a burgular, it would be sad if the "burgular" just happened to be a legitimate family member, friend, etc. I also have to say that if you are that overly concerned about keeping everyone possible away from your property to that degree, you have paranoia and perhaps other mental problems. It clearly is not a quality way of enjoying life and is almost suspicious for someone to close off from society to such a level. Basic home protection should involve good locks, maybe an alarm, and weapons that you have control over and have been trained how to use. You can always control a gun but you cannot always control an animal.

One last comment about someone's cheap threat about shooting someone who would shoot his dog. If someone is legitimately being attacked by a dangerous dog in the street, they do have a right by law toshoot the dog. If the dog owner then threatens the victim with a gun, the victim would have a right by law to alsoshoot the owner. The owner's threat or use of force against the victim would not be self-defense but aggrevated assault, threatening with a deadly weapon, and attempted murder. The person who came up with this cheap threat should re-evaluate his statements. Technically speaking even if a criminal shot and killed someone's dog in cold-blood, shooting the criminal would still be considered murder because the criminal was not actually threatening anyone else. The criminal would have to at least threaten a human with deadly force before the use of deadly force would be justified.
 

deepdiver

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Man, I don't know what kind of neighborhoods some of you guys live in, but I certainly don't want to live there. During my life I have seen numerous pets get loose and wander in the neighbors yard but we and my neighbors have never harmed and certainly not shot a neighborhood pet that just got loose, come into our yard and is not harming anyone or being aggressive. I have taken several pets back home over the years and a few times had someone get one of my dogs.

There are numerous dogs in my neighborhood. I know my neighbors, we know each other's dogs. Sometimes dogs get out. If they do we take them home or call our neighbor to come get it. If any of those dogs were vicious or acting aggressive to people or other pets and is injured by a neighbor protecting his family or pets, as I said, it is tragic and heartbreaking for the dog owner on numerous levels, for his pet and for the neighbor who was threatened or suffered any losses or damage. But if the dog is not being aggressive, threating or causing damage no one I know of in my neighborhood would ever cause it harm.

That some of you would suggest that a dog just being off it's owner's property requires "dealing with it" with severe harm or lethal force is disturbing to say the least.

ETA: If you want to use terms like "cheap threat" at least RTFC! I said if my dog was NOT being aggressive or threatening and someone did it harm I would react violently whereas if it WAS being aggressive and harming someone it would be heartbreaking and left the "but just the consequence" unstated but understood. HUGE difference!
 

rodbender

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deepdiver wrote:
Man, I don't know what kind of neighborhoods some of you guys live in, but I certainly don't want to live there. During my life I have seen numerous pets get loose and wander in the neighbors yard but we and my neighbors have never harmed and certainly not shot a neighborhood pet that just got loose, come into our yard and is not harming anyone or being aggressive. I have taken several pets back home over the years and a few times had someone get one of my dogs.

There are numerous dogs in my neighborhood. I know my neighbors, we know each other's dogs. Sometimes dogs get out. If they do we take them home or call our neighbor to come get it. If any of those dogs were vicious or acting aggressive to people or other pets and is injured by a neighbor protecting his family or pets, as I said, it is tragic and heartbreaking for the dog owner on numerous levels, for his pet and for the neighbor who was threatened or suffered any losses or damage. But if the dog is not being aggressive, threating or causing damage no one I know of in my neighborhood would ever cause it harm.

That some of you would suggest that a dog just being off it's owner's property requires "dealing with it" with severe harm or lethal force is disturbing to say the least.

ETA: If you want to use terms like "cheap threat" at least RTFC! I said if my dog was NOT being aggressive or threatening and someone did it harm I would react violently whereas if it WAS being aggressive and harming someone it would be heartbreaking and left the "but just the consequence" unstated but understood. HUGE difference!
My neighbor's dogs that I'm referring to are both pit mixed. Both are always aggressive toward my dog. Just walking to the mailbox or working on my hotrod they will attack for no reason. That is why I will shoot them thenext time I catch them on my property, being aggressive or not. The last people that lived in that house had dogs that used to come over a lot and I would pet them and sometimes play with them, but these 2 are way too aggressive for me. If they were my dogs, I would have already shot them myself.
 

ilbob

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My beagle went thru basic obedience training. I must have heard at least 100 times "a tired dog is a good dog". If you watch any of the several dog training shows on TV they say similar things. All dogs need daily exercise. If you are too lazy or irresponsible to see that they get it, you should not have a dog. The amount of exercise a dog needs is pretty individual. Some dogs will need 2 or 3 hours a day. Others will do fine with a 30 minute walk every morning.

Another problem is putting a dog on aline unsupervised for long periods of time. This almost always results in the dog not being well adjusted. The only good answer for long term (like hours) confinement of a dog is a fenced in dog run, your home, or a crate. Its one thing to put the dog on a pulley run so he can get a little exercise, but its not OK to leave him there alone all day. Dogs prefer to be in an enclosed area. They are naturally den animals and feel safe in such a place. A small fenced in dog run is a good choice for a dog that does not live indoors.

I am personally not a fan of relying on the invisible fences to keep a dog confined to your property when you are not there. They are a pretty good idea for people who can't fence their yards in, and don't want to have to leash the dog continuously while the dog is outside doing its business or exercising, but for most dogs, it is a terrible idea to leave them alone like that for any length of time. Some dogs do OK with this though, but there is still the problem of other dogs coming by and they are not deterred from entering your dog's space by the invisible fence.

There are some exceptions of course, but they probably don't apply to those of us living in town.

Another problem is that many dogs are not well socialized to people and other crittersoutside their family. They need some regular exposure to other people and dogs with you present so they understand other people and dogs are not necessarily a threat.

As for the idea that it is the responsibility of someone who might encounter a stray dog to be an expert on dog behavior, that is just as silly as expecting everyone to be an expert marksman. Its not a bad idea to learn about dog behavior, but the plain facts are that often dogs that are out of their familiar environment act differently than when they are home. that is one of the reasons you hear the owners of dogs who attack others claiming the dog was always a friendly family pet and would never hurt anyone, even though they did.
 

deepdiver

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rodbender wrote:
deepdiver wrote:
My neighbor's dogs that I'm referring to are both pit mixed. Both are always aggressive toward my dog. Just walking to the mailbox or working on my hotrod they will attack for no reason. That is why I will shoot them thenext time I catch them on my property, being aggressive or not. The last people that lived in that house had dogs that used to come over a lot and I would pet them and sometimes play with them, but these 2 are way too aggressive for me. If they were my dogs, I would have already shot them myself.
I got that about you having mean dogs near you. No complaints about dogs being aggressive or attacking being appropriately, if necessarily fatally, dealt with. I've known several dogs over the years who were fine with those they know but extremely dangerous otherwise.
 

JoeSparky

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I have a dog... or rather, my wife has a dog. I also have children and grandchildren!



IF said dog is attacking one or more of my children or grandchildren or neighbors children or some random person walking down the street, I as a responsible person would feel a duty to STOP the attack by whatever means nessasary to protect the children....

Yes, if needed I would use deadly force on the dog!

And Utah makes animal cruelty a felony but most child abuse is only a Misdemeanor!

JoeSparky
 

Matriark TerVel

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Where I live, pets get loose every now and again. It will happen at least once to most pet owners during the time they own their pet. If my pet wandered off, and someone shot it for no justifiable reason, I would do everything within my rights to seek relief.

In my opinion, it is justified to shoot a dog that is attacking/attempting to attack if the dog might cause serious bodily harm. In any other scenario, I believe killing the dog would be unjustified.

As others have pointed out, the signs that a dog is about to attack are very clear, if you know what to look for. A dog chasing you isn't always an aggressive behavior. Dogs also play that way.

A dog is a dog and not a human. Should we therefore use any less discretion in determining whether or not to use deadly force? I think not.

The absolute worst thing one can do when being confronted by a dog, or any other animal, in any situation is to show fear the way most people do. We should only expect people to be so afraid, as long as the media continues to condition a fear of 'vicious' dogs into people, and people continue to generalize it.

It's just as bad as the stereotypical 'vicious' pit bull. :banghead: I'll point out -- the bull breeds were bred to be dog-aggressive, not human-aggressive. Any dog will attempt to protect its home, its pack, and its territory (just as humans will.) We're a product of our environment, so are dogs. We make errors in judgment, so do dogs.

Any dog raised in the correct conditions will be vicious, and it really gets my goat when people try to use breed as evidence to say a dog is 'vicious'. Some dogs have a screw loose, just as some people do...

Bill in VA schreef:
I'll preface this by saying it's not directed at anyone in particular, but having read enough of these sorts of threads I felt the need to respond. Idon't know how many threads I've read on here about "I almost had to use my gun because a dog charged me." Having had dogs for almost all of my 40+ years to date, I can tell you that dogs do not randomly and without provocation "charge." Sure, they may run up barking but as Pol Mordreth wrote, it's not the barkling ones you have to worry about, but the snarling and/or silent ones. Honestly, I think so many posters on here are young kids in the 20-something age range who are actively looking for an excuse to use their gun. (Go ahead and flame away...I'm wearing Nomex undies.)

Bill, I see where you're coming from, and mostly I agree with your points. However, I find the whole 'trigger-happy 20-something' stereotype a bit insulting (not that I'm trying to start a flame war either -- just felt the need to respond.) I'm 22, calm, and level-headed. Not every 20-something is trigger-happy, nor is every trigger-happy person a 20-something. ;)
 

Sonora Rebel

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I like dogs... I keep a box of dog bones on the porch for my neighbors dogs... who come beggin' like little kids for candy every day. However... there are some dogs I don't 'know'... and seem prone to 'packing'. I feel sorry for these animals... but that won't prevent me from killing them if all else fails. They come on my property... and I can usually chase them off by 'pointing'. Now... they've either been shot at before, or they just 'know'. 'Living in a remote desert area asI do... Leash laws are a joke. For this reason... I carry when doin' anything outside... I've had to draw and 'point' several times. I do believe these curs get some sort of primal 'signal' that this man-thing will kill them if provoked. They leave... That said... in Arizona, it's perfectly legal to shoot any animal threatening you, your family, pets or livestock at any time.
 

protector84

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I believe that common sense as in any self-defense situation should occur when dealing with unleashed and approaching dogs. I hope nobody misunderstood me because I never advocated shooting any dog that happens to be unleashed or wandering in the street. Dogs wandering unleashed in a street, however, are a liability that needs to be dealt with on some level. The dog may be dangerous and could go around biting people or it may just be lost but could end up in the street and become a traffic safety hazard. If you know the owner, you should contact them so that they can pick up the dog. If the dog is lost, confused, or injured and is clearly non-threatening you may decide to be a good samaritan, pick it up yourself, and bring it to a dog shelter, pound, humane society, etc. and post "Found Dog" signs in your neighborhood. It never does hurt to call animal control to pick up the dog. Some dogs have collars or chips that can aid in returning it to its owner.

As to nuissance dogs, I am not someone who believes in calling the cops on every little thing. Just as if a neighbor was throwing a loud party, if a dog was making excessive noise or otherwise disturbing the peace, I would first ask the owner to quiet it. I would probably issue a second warning before actually making a formal complaint to law enforcement.

The issue of a dog unleashed, threatening, and or biting in a public street however does reflect laws similar to defensive situations with humans. If a "reasonable person" would believe that physical force or deadly force is necessary to stop the threat, it is legal. Most of the time dogs can be ran off. The key is to not show fear or run. Also, waving a metal object at it (gun) may work much of the time. In my case as in the OP, there were three of them suddenly charging toward me and they were mid-sized. Any canine has a mouth full of teeth and can potentially carry rabies although not common. Three mid-sized dogs running in a pack can have a pack mentality and be quite dangerous. I would have responded the same way if three men were running toward me with knives in their hands. I didn't run from the dogs and I gave them a threatening attitude back which caused them to retreat and the situation was over. Now had they not have retreated, I probably would have slowly backed away, yelled at them, and repeated the process. Had one of the dogs actually bitten me, I would have shot it then and if any of the dogs did clearly appear vicious (as in ready to dive straight for my juglar vein), I would have shot it. This isn't about shooting any dog that is in the street but using common sense self-defense techniques. I don't want to shoot any human or animal but I am of the opinion that once a dog actually bites, it is no longer someone's family pet but a public safety liability. Not onlywould I now have to get rabies shots in addition to other medical treatment, the dog if not impounded or euthanized would continue toendanger others. You can bet if the cops respond to a dangerous dog call that if the dog bites the officer, the officer will make sure that was the last dog's bite.

I think my views are pretty sensible here. I'm not looking for an excuse to use a gun but a good gun-carrying citizen owes a responsibility to himself and his community to maintain reasonable safety. Common sense approaches should be used when dealing with problem animals in public areas.
 

Slayer of Paper

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I think a lot of people are over-estimating the value of a dog's life here (in the eyes of the law).

Let me start by saying I in no way support using a firearm to stop a charging dog. If anyone actually believes that a single dog charging at them is an imminent deadly threat, then they should probably stay at home and barricade all their doors. A PACK of dogs is a different story, but a single dog is not going to kill you before you can react. To shoot it before it even bit you would be the king of over-reactions. After it bites, that's a different story, and shooting may be the only way to get the dog to stop.

However, the better way to deal with such a situation is to go after the real culprit- the dog's owner, and in a legal manner. In most states, you can and often will be held fully responsible for any damage your dog does, as if you had inflicted the damage yourself. If your dog bites, you can be charged with aggravated assault.

Now, on the OTHER side of that... No matter how much YOU feel your dog is a member of your family, the law views it as property. Nothing more, nothing less. If you were to shoot and kill someone for killing your dog, you would likely be tried for 1st degree murder. Hell, you can't even kill someone for killing your CHILD- why would you even consider doing so in revenge for killng your pet??? Are you crazy? In the case of the child, you would get charged, but if you get a good sympathetic jury, you may just walk (stress MAY), but a vengeance killing for a DOG? You might just end up on death row.

Also on that side, if someone kills your dog without justification, the most they are likely to be charged with is negligent discharge of a firearm and destruction of private property, or other similar charges, all of which are usually misdemeanors. If the killing of the dog was justified, then they will probably not be charged with anything at all, and you will probably still get hooked up for assault.

When you take on the responsibility of owning a dog, you also take on responsibility for that dog's actions. You also need to remember that, as far as the law is concerned, that pet is just property, no more important than your appliances or your furniture. Consider that when deciding on what action to take in response to your dog being killed.
 

Sonora Rebel

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Ref Section 9



AN ACT



AMENDING SECTION 13-3107, ARIZONA REVISED STATUTES; RELATING TO WEAPONS.









(TEXT OF BILL BEGINS ON NEXT PAGE)




Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Arizona:

Section 1. Section 13-3107, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended to read:

13-3107. Unlawful discharge of firearms; exceptions; classification; definitions

A. Discharge of A PERSON WHO WITH CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE DISCHARGES a firearm within OR INTO the limits of any municipality is guilty of a class 2 misdemeanor except: 6 FELONY.

B. NOTWITHSTANDING THE FACT THAT THE OFFENSE INVOLVES THE DISCHARGE OF A DEADLY WEAPON, UNLESS THE DANGEROUS NATURE OF THE FELONY IS CHARGED AND PROVEN PURSUANT TO SECTION 13-604, SUBSECTION P, THE PROVISIONS OF SECTION 13-702, SUBSECTION G APPLY TO THIS OFFENSE.

C. THIS SECTION DOES NOT APPLY IF THE FIREARM IS DISCHARGED:

1. As allowed pursuant to the provisions of chapter 4 of this title.

2. On a properly supervised range.

3. In an area recommended as a hunting area by the Arizona game and fish department, approved and posted as required by the chief of police, but any such area may be closed when deemed unsafe by the chief of police or the director of the game and fish department.

4. For the control of nuisance wildlife by permit from the Arizona game and fish department or the United States fish and wildlife service.

5. By special permit of the chief of police of the municipality.

6. As required by an animal control officer in the performance of duties as specified in section 9-499.04.

7. USING BLANKS.

8. MORE THAN ONE MILE FROM ANY OCCUPIED STRUCTURE AS DEFINED IN SECTION 13-3101.

9. IN SELF DEFENSE OR DEFENSE OF ANOTHER PERSON AGAINST AN ANIMAL ATTACK IF A REASONABLE PERSON WOULD BELIEVE THAT DEADLY PHYSICAL FORCE AGAINST THE ANIMAL IS IMMEDIATELY NECESSARY AND REASONABLE UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES TO PROTECT ONESELF OR THE OTHER PERSON.

Out here in the hinters... that also extends to pets and livestock on YOUR property. Wild or domestic animals... coyotes, wolves,javelina, mountain lion, bobcat, rattlers, wild/vicious dogs etc.
 

deepdiver

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I think a lot of people are making blanket statements about laws that are state and/or local laws with no thought as to the fact that this thread is posted in a True Tales Of Self Defense and not in a state sub-forum. If you want to make references to what the law does, doesn't not or might view, ESPECIALLY if you have not put your location in your profile, at least do what Sonora Rebel did and make it clear the state laws to which you are referring.
 
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