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Thread: Flag seller kicked off eBay, refuses to sell to Californians

  1. #1
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    http://www.newstimes.com/latestnews/ci_10164361

    WATERBURY -- A Waterbury antiques dealer has been barred from selling vintage American flags on eBay because of restrictions he placed on who can buy the flags. Mark Albino, owner of C&M Antiques and Collectibles in Waterbury, prohibits sales to buyers in the Middle East, France and Californians, unless they are in the military in that state. Albino, 43, of Plymouth, served eight years in the Navy, including five years of active duty. "I refuse to be a party to anyone desecrating or burning the U.S. flag," he said. "Too many good people have died defending that flag." Albino said has been selling vintage American flags on eBay for years. He said he is a designated eBay power seller, which means his auctions have resulted in sales of at least $76,000 over the past 30 days. He has somewhere between 250 and 800 auctions under way on the online commercial site on any given day, but will not longer be able to peddle vintage flags. "Those are wonderful items, and I'm sure there are a lot of people out there that would be interested in bidding on them," said Usher Lieberman, an eBay spokesman. "But we have pulled those auctions off the site. All our sellers must abide by the rules and policies we have established and we can't make any exceptions." Albino said that every flag he has ever sold on eBay has contained a disclaimer outlining the restrictions: "Please note that this flag is not for sale to anyone residing in any country in the Middle East, Advertisement France, and the state of California (unless you can show proof of serving in the U.S. military) or to any person in any country not allied to the USA. I reserve the right not to sell this flag to anyone I deem may be disrespectful to it. God bless America and its true allies." Albino said he has been running an average of about 15 vintage flag auctions per year on eBay and has sold somewhere between 75 and 100 flags on the site over the past five years. He acquires the flags primarily through estate auctions. The flags vary in size and value and generally date from the 1870s to the 1940s. Winning bids range from $50 to $500, Albino said. As an eBay auctioneer, Albino can choose not to ship his items internationally, or he can choose to ship them anywhere in the world, Lieberman, the eBay spokesman said. What he can't do is choose to ship internationally and then arbitrarily rule out certain individual countries. "You either sell your items to international bidders or you don't," Lieberman said. "Choosing to open your auctions to international bidders and then not accepting bids from certain countries, for whatever reason, violates our Search and Browse Manipulation policy."

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    He's had over $76,000 in sales in the last 30 days, but he's sold no more than 100 flags at no more than $500 per over the last 5 years... I guess they don't teach arithmetic in journalism school.

    -ljp

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    I don't see the issue. Ebay is a private company that makes its own rules and he violated the rules so they threw him off. What's the issue again?

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    I don't see the issue. Ebay is a private company that makes its own rules and he violated the rules so they threw him off. What's the issue again?
    Ditto, with an addition.

    If you do not lke eBay's rules and practices, do not ptronize them... Works for me



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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Ebay is indeed free to come up with whatever politically correct leftist policies it desires and we are all free to use/not use it as we see fit. I don't like their site or their policies and choose not to use it and have never bought or sold anything on Ebay and don't intend to in the future.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    deepdiver wrote:
    Ebay is indeed free to come up with whatever politically correct leftist policies it desires and we are all free to use/not use it as we see fit. I don't like their site or their policies and choose not to use it and have never bought or sold anything on Ebay and don't intend to in the future.


    Last time I checked being anti-flag burning is the politically correct course of action, which would make you the pc person in this matter. Thefact that flag burners and people like them are protected is why this country is free. Think hard about where you stand on issues like that before calling anyone politically correct. I'll take "leftist" as a compliment if it means standing up for peoples' 1A freedoms.

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    deepdiver wrote:
    Ebay is indeed free to come up with whatever politically correct leftist policies it desires and we are all free to use/not use it as we see fit. I don't like their site or their policies and choose not to use it and have never bought or sold anything on Ebay and don't intend to in the future.


    Last time I checked being anti-flag burning is the politically correct course of action, which would make you the pc person in this matter. Thefact that flag burners and people like them are protected is why this country is free. Think hard about where you stand on issues like that before calling anyone politically correct. I'll take "leftist" as a compliment if it means standing up for peoples' 1A freedoms.
    See, this is where you are getting confused. If the government takes action against a flag-burner, that would be unconstitutional. For a private citizen to voice their own disagreement with it, and even demostrate against it is simply them exercising their own first amendment rights.

    The first amendment merely forbids the government from interfering with your right to voice your opinion. It does not in any way mean other people cannot disagree with you, or that anyone even has to listen to you.

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    Slayer of Paper wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    deepdiver wrote:
    Ebay is indeed free to come up with whatever politically correct leftist policies it desires and we are all free to use/not use it as we see fit. I don't like their site or their policies and choose not to use it and have never bought or sold anything on Ebay and don't intend to in the future.


    Last time I checked being anti-flag burning is the politically correct course of action, which would make you the pc person in this matter. Thefact that flag burners and people like them are protected is why this country is free. Think hard about where you stand on issues like that before calling anyone politically correct. I'll take "leftist" as a compliment if it means standing up for peoples' 1A freedoms.
    See, this is where you are getting confused. If the government takes action against a flag-burner, that would be unconstitutional. For a private citizen to voice their own disagreement with it, and even demostrate against it is simply them exercising their own first amendment rights.

    The first amendment merely forbids the government from interfering with your right to voice your opinion. It does not in any way mean other people cannot disagree with you, or that anyone even has to listen to you.


    Good point. The way he said it, it sounded like he didn't support the right. If I said I agree with and supportbusinesses that deny people the right to OC you'd probably think I was anti-2A. Being personally against something while still respecting the right others have to do it is one thing, but being actively against something and trying to eliminate the right is another. I assumed (probably rightfully so) that he is in the later group. See where I'm coming from?

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    My parents sell antiques/collectibles on eBay and they refuse to sell to the EU countries (UK exempt) or Quebec. They say so specifically on each auction, and eBay gives them no problems over that policy (but then again, they're not "power sellers.")

    They have generally found Europeans and the Quebecois to be insufferable in their refusal to pay on time (waiting for the USD to fall more) and for wanting to break customs rules (marking packages as "gifts" to avoid duties/excises) so they refuse to deal with them.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    AWDstylez wrote:
    deepdiver wrote:
    Ebay is indeed free to come up with whatever politically correct leftist policies it desires and we are all free to use/not use it as we see fit. I don't like their site or their policies and choose not to use it and have never bought or sold anything on Ebay and don't intend to in the future.
    Last time I checked being anti-flag burning is the politically correct course of action, which would make you the pc person in this matter. Thefact that flag burners and people like them are protected is why this country is free. Think hard about where you stand on issues like that before calling anyone politically correct. I'll take "leftist" as a compliment if it means standing up for peoples' 1A freedoms.
    Let me see if I can explain this to you. This isn't about selling flags. This is about free commerce. The issue of why he doesn't want to sell to certain people was of no concern in my comments or my position and nowhere did I discuss his reasons. I addressed Ebay's policies and his, mine and everyone else's freedom to use or not use their services with their many PC restrictions (and other issues).

    He has a right to do commerce with whomever he wants and if he doesn't want to do commerce with the M.E., France of CA he is free to not do so.

    Ebay as a private business has the right to say that he does business with everyone or no one or make whatever restrictions they want to make which he will follow if he wants to use their site as an online market place.

    I supported both sides' rights to free commerce and control of their goods and services. Nothing PC about that.

    Think hard about what someone is actually saying, rather than approaching his words myopically, before telling him to think hard about where he stands.

    edit: typo/grammar
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    AWDstylez wrote:
    Slayer of Paper wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    deepdiver wrote:
    Ebay is indeed free to come up with whatever politically correct leftist policies it desires and we are all free to use/not use it as we see fit. I don't like their site or their policies and choose not to use it and have never bought or sold anything on Ebay and don't intend to in the future.


    Last time I checked being anti-flag burning is the politically correct course of action, which would make you the pc person in this matter. Thefact that flag burners and people like them are protected is why this country is free. Think hard about where you stand on issues like that before calling anyone politically correct. I'll take "leftist" as a compliment if it means standing up for peoples' 1A freedoms.
    See, this is where you are getting confused. If the government takes action against a flag-burner, that would be unconstitutional. For a private citizen to voice their own disagreement with it, and even demostrate against it is simply them exercising their own first amendment rights.

    The first amendment merely forbids the government from interfering with your right to voice your opinion. It does not in any way mean other people cannot disagree with you, or that anyone even has to listen to you.
    Good point. The way he said it, it sounded like he didn't support the right. If I said I agree with and supportbusinesses that deny people the right to OC you'd probably think I was anti-2A. Being personally against something while still respecting the right others have to do it is one thing, but being actively against something and trying to eliminate the right is another. I assumed (probably rightfully so) that he is in the later group. See where I'm coming from?
    I see exactly where you are coming from because it is the same place you are always coming from on the forum and as usual it starts, in your words, with your assuming, and in this case, once again wrongly.

    And it is "latter group" not "later group". It's really bad form to post typos while being pretentious.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    deepdiver wrote:
    Let me see if I can explain this to you.
    Ditto. Let's review what you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by deepriver
    Ebay is indeed free to come up with whatever politically correct leftist policies it desires and we are all free to use/not use it as we see fit.
    That showed your standing on the issue. That's what I was referencing. Don't try to play me for a fool when your not-so-subtle implications are plain as day.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    AWDstylez wrote:
    deepdiver wrote:
    Let me see if I can explain this to you.
    Ditto. Let's review what you said:

    deepriver wrote:
    Ebay is indeed free to come up with whatever politically correct leftist policies it desires and we are all free to use/not use it as we see fit.
    That showed your standing on the issue. That's what I was referencing. Don't try to play me for a fool when your not-so-subtle implications are plain as day.
    I do not need to play you for a fool; I have read your posts...


    Just a few posts up you admit that your interpretation of my post was only your assumption. I corrected your assumption and clarified my initial post and know of no other way to more clearly state that why he was limiting his sales was irrelevant to my comments or position on the matter. Now you are are arrogant enough to argue that your assumption was correct just because you have decided to declare yourself correct. Oh to be so young again and to once again know everything.

    I really do not care what you believe, however I will not allow you to impugn my words or meaning lest someone who's opinion I value might read your erroneous and forced interpretations and assign such beliefs, words or meaning to me. I find no ambiguity in my clarification, however, if there remains any confusion over my meaning I will be happy to answer any questions.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    deepdiver wrote:
    SNIP I will not allow you to impugn my words or meaning lest someone who's opinion I value might read your erroneous and forced interpretations and assign such beliefs, words or meaning to me.
    (cough, cough)

    I didn't realize you thought we were dumb enough to fall for something like that.

    In all seriousness, you've got enough good reputation that even if we stumbled across something like that, we'd say, "Here, now. That doesn't sound like Deep. Let me justscroll back and seeif he has been misquoted/taken out of context/etc." That is ifwe bother to assign any credibility to it at all.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    deepdiver wrote:
    SNIP I will not allow you to impugn my words or meaning lest someone who's opinion I value might read your erroneous and forced interpretations and assign such beliefs, words or meaning to me.
    (cough, cough)

    I didn't realize you thought we were dumb enough to fall for something like that.

    In all seriousness, you've got enough good reputation that even if we stumbled across something like that, we'd say, "Here, now. That doesn't sound like Deep. Let me justscroll back and seeif he has been misquoted/taken out of context/etc." That is ifwe bother to assign any credibility to it at all.
    I stand corrected and humbled. Thank you for the kind words, Citizen.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    Slayer of Paper wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    deepdiver wrote:
    Ebay is indeed free to come up with whatever politically correct leftist policies it desires and we are all free to use/not use it as we see fit. I don't like their site or their policies and choose not to use it and have never bought or sold anything on Ebay and don't intend to in the future.


    Last time I checked being anti-flag burning is the politically correct course of action, which would make you the pc person in this matter. Thefact that flag burners and people like them are protected is why this country is free. Think hard about where you stand on issues like that before calling anyone politically correct. I'll take "leftist" as a compliment if it means standing up for peoples' 1A freedoms.
    See, this is where you are getting confused. If the government takes action against a flag-burner, that would be unconstitutional. For a private citizen to voice their own disagreement with it, and even demostrate against it is simply them exercising their own first amendment rights.

    The first amendment merely forbids the government from interfering with your right to voice your opinion. It does not in any way mean other people cannot disagree with you, or that anyone even has to listen to you.


    Good point. The way he said it, it sounded like he didn't support the right. If I said I agree with and supportbusinesses that deny people the right to OC you'd probably think I was anti-2A. Being personally against something while still respecting the right others have to do it is one thing, but being actively against something and trying to eliminate the right is another. I assumed (probably rightfully so) that he is in the later group. See where I'm coming from?
    I didn't see anything in his post that could conceivably even remotely point to him wanting government to step in and force ebay to let him sell however he wants. Instead, he advocated for those that agree with this flag seller to boycott ebay, which is just another form of expressing the right of free speech.

    If a company has a political agenda, it certainly has a right to push that agenda. It is also my right to refuse to do business with them, and to try to convince others to do the same. That is ALL free speech.

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