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Thread: Open carry of plastic "firearms"

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    i have a question that is a bit of a departure from the norm. i figured this would be a good place to ask the question. last night at my monthy American Legion meeting a question came up about parade firearms. as it happens, quit a few groups that have color guards leading parades have switched to airsoft m16 rifles and my legion post is thinking about doing the same. we have some old guys who have a hard time shlepping heavy rifles across town (to be fair, they're all old except me, haha). the goal would be to acquire airsoft m16 rifles and sand and paint black the existing orange barrel tip so that the "weapon" would look realistic. apparantly one of the groups who does this in marine city said they had to get special permission from the police department and sign something stating that the toys would only be used in parades or special events.

    i told the legion post that i thought that we would not have to do that because saint clair does not have an ordinance against modifying toy guns. it does have an ordinance prohibiting brandishing toys guns, and obviously carrying them in a publicparade would not qualify as brandishing. so, to get to my question. is anyone aware of any state or federal law that prohibits removing the blaze orange "safety" markings from a toy gun? i am aware that there are laws for manufacturers that require them to mark toy guns in such a manner, but once the end consumer owns the gun, i don't know of anything prohibiting the toy's modification.
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    smellslikemichigan wrote:
    i have a question that is a bit of a departure from the norm. i figured this would be a good place to ask the question. last night at my monthy American Legion meeting a question came up about parade firearms. as it happens, quit a few groups that have color guards leading parades have switched to airsoft m16 rifles and my legion post is thinking about doing the same. we have some old guys who have a hard time shlepping heavy rifles across town (to be fair, they're all old except me, haha). the goal would be to acquire airsoft m16 rifles and sand and paint black the existing orange barrel tip so that the "weapon" would look realistic. apparantly one of the groups who does this in marine city said they had to get special permission from the police department and sign something stating that the toys would only be used in parades or special events.

    i told the legion post that i thought that we would not have to do that because saint clair does not have an ordinance against modifying toy guns. it does have an ordinance prohibiting brandishing toys guns, and obviously carrying them in a publicparade would not qualify as brandishing. so, to get to my question. is anyone aware of any state or federal law that prohibits removing the blaze orange "safety" markings from a toy gun? i am aware that there are laws for manufacturers that require them to mark toy guns in such a manner, but once the end consumer owns the gun, i don't know of anything prohibiting the toy's modification.
    please check Federal law on modifications call BATF

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    Where is the 'honor' in doing things the easy way.

    If there is honor in carrying plastic replicas then consider that there may be as much honor in staying home and playing video game shoot'em-ups.

    Like calling BATFEMATSAICE about replica guns. Next you'll be calling the EPA for permission to complete the sanitary paperwork.

    We carry M1 parade pieces and I'm politicking for personal sidearms.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    that's funny, because i was always under the impression that the honor came with service to ones' country, not in whatever rifle one carried. do you carry a loaded m1? because otherwise, what's the point? it might as well be a toy.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    taxwhat wrote:
    smellslikemichigan wrote:
    i have a question that is a bit of a departure from the norm. i figured this would be a good place to ask the question. last night at my monthy American Legion meeting a question came up about parade firearms. as it happens, quit a few groups that have color guards leading parades have switched to airsoft m16 rifles and my legion post is thinking about doing the same. we have some old guys who have a hard time shlepping heavy rifles across town (to be fair, they're all old except me, haha). the goal would be to acquire airsoft m16 rifles and sand and paint black the existing orange barrel tip so that the "weapon" would look realistic. apparantly one of the groups who does this in marine city said they had to get special permission from the police department and sign something stating that the toys would only be used in parades or special events.

    i told the legion post that i thought that we would not have to do that because saint clair does not have an ordinance against modifying toy guns. it does have an ordinance prohibiting brandishing toys guns, and obviously carrying them in a publicparade would not qualify as brandishing. so, to get to my question. is anyone aware of any state or federal law that prohibits removing the blaze orange "safety" markings from a toy gun? i am aware that there are laws for manufacturers that require them to mark toy guns in such a manner, but once the end consumer owns the gun, i don't know of anything prohibiting the toy's modification.
    please check Federal law on modifications call BATF
    i'm fairly certain that the ATF regulates only alcohol, tobacco and firearms. hence the name. they would be the ATTF if they also regulated toys.
    (apologies for feeding the troll)
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Where is the 'honor' in doing things the easy way.

    If there is honor in carrying plastic replicas then consider that there may be as much honor in staying home and playing video game shoot'em-ups.

    Like calling BATFEMATSAICE about replica guns. Next you'll be calling the EPA for permission to complete the sanitary paperwork.

    We carry M1 parade pieces and I'm politicking for personal sidearms.
    did you just drop by the michigan area to post irrelevant comments and to not answer legitimate questions? seems like a waste of your time and mine. we try to keep things positive in our area. if you want to be negative, perhaps they would appreciate it more in the wisconsin forum.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    The only Federal laws regarding airsoft guns are regarding the orange tip for commerce. The end user can do whatever they want with their property, including removing the orange tip. If you decide to sell the guns across state lines you will have to reapply the orange tip.

    Check for any applicable state/local laws -- nothing to worry about federally.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    ScottyT wrote:
    The only Federal laws regarding airsoft guns are regarding the orange tip for commerce. The end user can do whatever they want with their property, including removing the orange tip. If you decide to sell the guns across state lines you will have to reapply the orange tip.

    Check for any applicable state/local laws -- nothing to worry about federally.
    cool, that's what i was thinking as well! and thanks for stopping by with a thoughtful answer. you've been most helpful.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    I'd check with the city attorney, or maybe the county prosecutor, unless they're total weenies, it shouldn't be a problem.
    Big Gay Al
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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    i already know i'm ok as far as the city goes. saint clair doesn't have much on the books in the way of firearm ordinances (plastic or otherwise). and i'm pretty sure the feds don't have a problem with it. so what about the state of michigan? anyone know anything about than?
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    smellslikemichigan wrote:
    i already know i'm ok as far as the city goes. saint clair doesn't have much on the books in the way of firearm ordinances (plastic or otherwise). and i'm pretty sure the feds don't have a problem with it. so what about the state of michigan? anyone know anything about than?
    pretty sure ?????????????????? pick up phone call BATF or homeland security to answer SoM call MSP post lot cheaper than guessing !!!!!!!!

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Toy guns do not come under the preview of BATFE or Homeland Security. I believe it would be something to do with consumer product safety.
    Big Gay Al
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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    taxwhat wrote:
    smellslikemichigan wrote:
    i already know i'm ok as far as the city goes. saint clair doesn't have much on the books in the way of firearm ordinances (plastic or otherwise). and i'm pretty sure the feds don't have a problem with it. so what about the state of michigan? anyone know anything about than?
    pretty sure ?????????????????? pick up phone call BATF or homeland security to answer SoM call MSP post lot cheaper than guessing !!!!!!!!
    dude... what? the invasion... small town america... philosophical differences common to the eastern half. where the red fern grows.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Big Gay Al wrote:
    Toy guns do not come under the preview of BATFE or Homeland Security. I believe it would be something to do with consumer product safety.
    OOOOOOOOKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!! So when I remove the orange tip from my airsoft gun and get arrested for brandishing, then what is your phone number so I can have the cops call you for your legal expertise?

    As for picking up the phone and spending a few minutes calling the BATF or Homeland Security to make sure of the Federal Laws pertaining to removing the orange tip would not cost you anything.

    Think about it, when you remove the orange tip, which was put on for the users protection, then the Gun looks real enough that any Cop on patrol would more then likely pull over and proceed to ask you to drop your GUN and step away from it. If you refused, then a taser might in your side as your rolling on the ground in electified agony and your gentials going into retrograde.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    thatc69 wrote:
    Big Gay Al wrote:
    Toy guns do not come under the preview of BATFE or Homeland Security. I believe it would be something to do with consumer product safety.
    OOOOOOOOKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!! So when I remove the orange tip from my airsoft gun and get arrested for brandishing, then what is your phone number so I can have the cops call you for your legal expertise?

    As for picking up the phone and spending a few minutes calling the BATF or Homeland Security to make sure of the Federal Laws pertaining to removing the orange tip would not cost you anything.

    Think about it, when you remove the orange tip, which was put on for the users protection, then the Gun looks real enough that any Cop on patrol would more then likely pull over and proceed to ask you to drop your GUN and step away from it. If you refused, then a taser might in your side as your rolling on the ground in electified agony and your gentials going into retrograde.
    i think you may have missed the beginning of this thread. i was trying to get info on the legality of using "modified" plastic "rifles" in a parade in which veterans already carry real live M1 rifles of mass destruction. if the vets are not getting tasered for carrying M1s i doubt whether they will be tasered for carrying plastic guns.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    thatc69 wrote:
    Big Gay Al wrote:
    Toy guns do not come under the preview of BATFE or Homeland Security. I believe it would be something to do with consumer product safety.
    OOOOOOOOKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!! So when I remove the orange tip from my airsoft gun and get arrested for brandishing, then what is your phone number so I can have the cops call you for your legal expertise?

    As for picking up the phone and spending a few minutes calling the BATF or Homeland Security to make sure of the Federal Laws pertaining to removing the orange tip would not cost you anything.

    Think about it, when you remove the orange tip, which was put on for the users protection, then the Gun looks real enough that any Cop on patrol would more then likely pull over and proceed to ask you to drop your GUN and step away from it. If you refused, then a taser might in your side as your rolling on the ground in electified agony and your gentials going into retrograde.
    If you're so stupid that you're gonna do that, don't call me. And I can already tell you what ATF and HS are going to say. "That's not our department."


    Big Gay Al
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    OR Taurus PT92AFS 9x19mm.

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    smellslikemichigan wrote:
    thatc69 wrote:
    Big Gay Al wrote:
    Toy guns do not come under the preview of BATFE or Homeland Security. I believe it would be something to do with consumer product safety.
    OOOOOOOOKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!! So when I remove the orange tip from my airsoft gun and get arrested for brandishing, then what is your phone number so I can have the cops call you for your legal expertise?

    As for picking up the phone and spending a few minutes calling the BATF or Homeland Security to make sure of the Federal Laws pertaining to removing the orange tip would not cost you anything.

    Think about it, when you remove the orange tip, which was put on for the users protection, then the Gun looks real enough that any Cop on patrol would more then likely pull over and proceed to ask you to drop your GUN and step away from it. If you refused, then a taser might in your side as your rolling on the ground in electified agony and your gentials going into retrograde.
    i think you may have missed the beginning of this thread. i was trying to get info on the legality of using "modified" plastic "rifles" in a parade in which veterans already carry real live M1 rifles of mass destruction. if the vets are not getting tasered for carrying M1s i doubt whether they will be tasered for carrying plastic guns.
    I wouldn't worry about it. He's probably a troll.

    Big Gay Al
    Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols
    Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    Rock Island Armory 1911-A1 FS Tactical .45ACP Carried Condition 1.
    OR Taurus PT92AFS 9x19mm.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Big Gay Al wrote:
    smellslikemichigan wrote:
    thatc69 wrote:
    Big Gay Al wrote:
    Toy guns do not come under the preview of BATFE or Homeland Security. I believe it would be something to do with consumer product safety.
    OOOOOOOOKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!! So when I remove the orange tip from my airsoft gun and get arrested for brandishing, then what is your phone number so I can have the cops call you for your legal expertise?

    As for picking up the phone and spending a few minutes calling the BATF or Homeland Security to make sure of the Federal Laws pertaining to removing the orange tip would not cost you anything.

    Think about it, when you remove the orange tip, which was put on for the users protection, then the Gun looks real enough that any Cop on patrol would more then likely pull over and proceed to ask you to drop your GUN and step away from it. If you refused, then a taser might in your side as your rolling on the ground in electified agony and your gentials going into retrograde.
    i think you may have missed the beginning of this thread. i was trying to get info on the legality of using "modified" plastic "rifles" in a parade in which veterans already carry real live M1 rifles of mass destruction. if the vets are not getting tasered for carrying M1s i doubt whether they will be tasered for carrying plastic guns.
    I wouldn't worry about it. He's probably a troll.
    no doubt, considering that was his first post.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    thatc69 wrote:
    Big Gay Al wrote:
    Toy guns do not come under the preview of BATFE or Homeland Security. I believe it would be something to do with consumer product safety.
    OOOOOOOOKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!! So when I remove the orange tip from my airsoft gun and get arrested for brandishing, then what is your phone number so I can have the cops call you for your legal expertise?

    As for picking up the phone and spending a few minutes calling the BATF or Homeland Security to make sure of the Federal Laws pertaining to removing the orange tip would not cost you anything.

    Think about it, when you remove the orange tip, which was put on for the users protection, then the Gun looks real enough that any Cop on patrol would more then likely pull over and proceed to ask you to drop your GUN and step away from it. If you refused, then a taser might in your side as your rolling on the ground in electified agony and your gentials going into retrograde.
    Perhaps you missed what site you are on. Open carry is legal whether with a real gun or a toy gun. Brandishing (waving it around in a threatening manner.) would apply to a toy or a real gun. But in a holster in plain site....read the info thread. You probably don't remove the tag under penalty of law, which doesn't apply to the consumer.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    You probably don't remove the tag under penalty of law, which doesn't apply to the consumer.
    Beautifulinsult, Venator. May I plagiarize it when appropriate? I don't have a clue who you are, but I bow to your genius.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Stop it, you're gunna give him a big head.

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    cce1302 wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    You probably don't remove the tag under penalty of law, which doesn't apply to the consumer.
    Beautifulinsult, Venator. May I plagiarize it when appropriate? I don't have a clue who you are, but I bow to your genius.
    I don't think I can stop you from using it, so go ahead.


    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    dougwg wrote:
    Stop it, you're gunna give him a big head.
    Let's be socially polite here, it's a ROBUST head he uses, remember.

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    smellslikemichigan wrote:
    that's funny, because i was always under the impression that the honor came with service to ones' country, not in whatever rifle one carried. do you carry a loaded m1? because otherwise, what's the point? it might as well be a toy.

    As veteran (that is fortunate enough to be young and healthy enough to carry whatever I want), I agree completely that these guys have already fufilled the "honor" requirement. If they choose to carry pink water-pistols or nothing at all, They'll get a salute from me.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Lately, I have been a little bothered by something while reading this forum and perhaps this post is a good place to let the issue be known: people who post here erroniously believe that by "getting permission" or having a copy of "the law" readily available during their arrest that somehow the peace officer will say "Gee, I'm sorry. I guess I'm wrong and have decided not to arrest you". Although it may provide some sense of "peace of mind" and MAY (unlikely) be helpful if brought into court, I personally believe that calling or contacting any authority is a monumental waste of time. Even if they said that it was allowed, and you were subsequently arrested, the chances that this "permission" would get the charges dropped is slim at best. Speaking from personal experience, even with the law printed off, opinions of police chiefs, the Attorney General of Michigan, and any other "authority", law enforcement officers will rarely pay any attention to information that you give them. If a law enforcement officer has made the decision to arrest you, he/she will. And, just by talking to them, once they have decided that you are going to be arrested, if you aren't arrested for what they originally wanted to charge you with, they will find something in talking to you to use as a reason to arrest you. Just ask Chris Fetters how providing information worked out for him in Grand Haven.

    I would suggest this website if you want more information on how to deal with these situations:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...02514885833865
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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