• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Open carry of plastic "firearms"

marshaul

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
imported post

Courage is not an absolute thing. A person who shows great bravery in combat may not show the same courage to confront, say, society at large, and for this reason may be uncomfortable with OC. While the OCer shows more courage in the face of common street thugs, societal preconceptions, and even the law, the combat vet shows greater courage in the face of flying bullets. None of this means that either man lacks courage, only that men may possess varying amounts of different sorts of courage.

With that said, I agree with venator's original point: OC is, inherently, a more courageous act than CC. That doesn't mean that those who CC are cowards, but I can see no reason to CC when one could OC that isn't derived from fear of something, be it guns grabs, unwanted attention, being targeted first, social stigma, legal repercussions, etc.
 
C

cce1302

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
265
Location
South Bend, Indiana, USA
imported post

To further draw this discussion away from the original poster's question, Venator and Marshaul, I believe you are comparing apples and oranges when measuring the couragouspeepees of OCers and CCers. One who carries concealed is not carrying to make a statement of his courage. He carries to defend himself (and others, if he chooses). If you are carrying openly in order to make a statement about your rights, so be it, but don't think that what you are doing makes you inherently more courageous than anybody else.

Venator said that one that open carries has more courage than any CCer. Maybe he just wears smaller pants and tighter shirts that don't cover IWB, so he has to wear a paddle holster.

Maybe the CCer wants to walk past a sign that says "no guns." It's possible and legal to CCW into a store posted No Guns, but not very likely to OC in there.

I'm aware that this forum is called "Open Carry" but that doesn't mean you need to be an ass or feel superiorto those who choose to carry concealed.
 
Venator

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
imported post

cce1302 wrote:
To further draw this discussion away from the original poster's question, Venator and Marshaul, I believe you are comparing apples and oranges when measuring the couragouspeepees of OCers and CCers. One who carries concealed is not carrying to make a statement of his courage. He carries to defend himself (and others, if he chooses). If you are carrying openly in order to make a statement about your rights, so be it, but don't think that what you are doing makes you inherently more courageous than anybody else.

Venator said that one that open carries has more courage than any CCer. Maybe he just wears smaller pants and tighter shirts that don't cover IWB, so he has to wear a paddle holster.

Maybe the CCer wants to walk past a sign that says "no guns." It's possible and legal to CCW into a store posted No Guns, but not very likely to OC in there.

I'm aware that this forum is called "Open Carry" but that doesn't mean you need to be an ass or feel superiorto those who choose to carry concealed.
Click to expand...
I said it takes more courage to OC than CC. I never said CCers are cowards, again my point it takes courage to OC more so than it does to CC, if that wasn't true many more CPL holders would OC, just my opinion. I do both at different times with a paddle for OC and IWB for CC. It was only posted as a thought exercise. I'm glad people are thinking about it, and if just 10% of CPL holders OCed more then we would have an easier time educationing LEO's and the public.
 
smellslikemichigan

smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
imported post

Venator wrote:
cce1302 wrote:
To further draw this discussion away from the original poster's question, Venator and Marshaul, I believe you are comparing apples and oranges when measuring the couragouspeepees of OCers and CCers. One who carries concealed is not carrying to make a statement of his courage. He carries to defend himself (and others, if he chooses). If you are carrying openly in order to make a statement about your rights, so be it, but don't think that what you are doing makes you inherently more courageous than anybody else.

Venator said that one that open carries has more courage than any CCer. Maybe he just wears smaller pants and tighter shirts that don't cover IWB, so he has to wear a paddle holster.

Maybe the CCer wants to walk past a sign that says "no guns." It's possible and legal to CCW into a store posted No Guns, but not very likely to OC in there.

I'm aware that this forum is called "Open Carry" but that doesn't mean you need to be an ass or feel superiorto those who choose to carry concealed.
Click to expand...
I said it takes more courage to OC than CC. I never said CCers are cowards, again my point it takes courage to OC more so than it does to CC, if that wasn't true many more CPL holders would OC, just my opinion. I do both at different times with a paddle for OC and IWB for CC. It was only posted as a thought exercise. I'm glad people are thinking about it, and if just 10% of CPL holders OCed more then we would have an easier time educationing LEO's and the public.
Click to expand...
actually, to quote what you said, "As I've said before a person that OCs has more courage than any CCer." not, "it takes more courage to OC than CC." there is a distinct grammatical differance between the two.
 
Venator

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
imported post

smellslikemichigan wrote:
Venator wrote:
cce1302 wrote:
To further draw this discussion away from the original poster's question, Venator and Marshaul, I believe you are comparing apples and oranges when measuring the couragouspeepees of OCers and CCers. One who carries concealed is not carrying to make a statement of his courage. He carries to defend himself (and others, if he chooses). If you are carrying openly in order to make a statement about your rights, so be it, but don't think that what you are doing makes you inherently more courageous than anybody else.

Venator said that one that open carries has more courage than any CCer. Maybe he just wears smaller pants and tighter shirts that don't cover IWB, so he has to wear a paddle holster.

Maybe the CCer wants to walk past a sign that says "no guns." It's possible and legal to CCW into a store posted No Guns, but not very likely to OC in there.

I'm aware that this forum is called "Open Carry" but that doesn't mean you need to be an ass or feel superiorto those who choose to carry concealed.
Click to expand...
I said it takes more courage to OC than CC. I never said CCers are cowards, again my point it takes courage to OC more so than it does to CC, if that wasn't true many more CPL holders would OC, just my opinion. I do both at different times with a paddle for OC and IWB for CC. It was only posted as a thought exercise. I'm glad people are thinking about it, and if just 10% of CPL holders OCed more then we would have an easier time educationing LEO's and the public.
Click to expand...
actually, to quote what you said, "As I've said before a person that OCs has more courage than any CCer." not, "it takes more courage to OC than CC." there is a distinct grammatical differance between the two.
Click to expand...
Look at my other posts, I did say that as well. again I stand by it.
 
smellslikemichigan

smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
imported post

Venator wrote:
smellslikemichigan wrote:
Venator wrote:
cce1302 wrote:
To further draw this discussion away from the original poster's question, Venator and Marshaul, I believe you are comparing apples and oranges when measuring the couragouspeepees of OCers and CCers. One who carries concealed is not carrying to make a statement of his courage. He carries to defend himself (and others, if he chooses). If you are carrying openly in order to make a statement about your rights, so be it, but don't think that what you are doing makes you inherently more courageous than anybody else.

Venator said that one that open carries has more courage than any CCer. Maybe he just wears smaller pants and tighter shirts that don't cover IWB, so he has to wear a paddle holster.

Maybe the CCer wants to walk past a sign that says "no guns." It's possible and legal to CCW into a store posted No Guns, but not very likely to OC in there.

I'm aware that this forum is called "Open Carry" but that doesn't mean you need to be an ass or feel superiorto those who choose to carry concealed.
Click to expand...
I said it takes more courage to OC than CC. I never said CCers are cowards, again my point it takes courage to OC more so than it does to CC, if that wasn't true many more CPL holders would OC, just my opinion. I do both at different times with a paddle for OC and IWB for CC. It was only posted as a thought exercise. I'm glad people are thinking about it, and if just 10% of CPL holders OCed more then we would have an easier time educationing LEO's and the public.
Click to expand...
actually, to quote what you said, "As I've said before a person that OCs has more courage than any CCer." not, "it takes more courage to OC than CC." there is a distinct grammatical differance between the two.
Click to expand...
Look at my other posts, I did say that as well. again I stand by it.
Click to expand...
to say that any person that OCs has more courage than any CCer is a completely unprovable universal negative
edit: spelling
 
C

cce1302

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
265
Location
South Bend, Indiana, USA
imported post

Venator wrote:
smellslikemichigan wrote:
Venator wrote:
cce1302 wrote:
To further draw this discussion away from the original poster's question, Venator and Marshaul, I believe you are comparing apples and oranges when measuring the couragouspeepees of OCers and CCers. One who carries concealed is not carrying to make a statement of his courage. He carries to defend himself (and others, if he chooses). If you are carrying openly in order to make a statement about your rights, so be it, but don't think that what you are doing makes you inherently more courageous than anybody else.

Venator said that one that open carries has more courage than any CCer. Maybe he just wears smaller pants and tighter shirts that don't cover IWB, so he has to wear a paddle holster.

Maybe the CCer wants to walk past a sign that says "no guns." It's possible and legal to CCW into a store posted No Guns, but not very likely to OC in there.

I'm aware that this forum is called "Open Carry" but that doesn't mean you need to be an ass or feel superiorto those who choose to carry concealed.
Click to expand...
I said it takes more courage to OC than CC. I never said CCers are cowards, again my point it takes courage to OC more so than it does to CC, if that wasn't true many more CPL holders would OC, just my opinion. I do both at different times with a paddle for OC and IWB for CC. It was only posted as a thought exercise. I'm glad people are thinking about it, and if just 10% of CPL holders OCed more then we would have an easier time educationing LEO's and the public.
Click to expand...
actually, to quote what you said, "As I've said before a person that OCs has more courage than any CCer." not, "it takes more courage to OC than CC." there is a distinct grammatical differance between the two.
Click to expand...
Look at my other posts, I did say that as well. again I stand by it.
Click to expand...
Well, just to be clear, when I claimed you said "one that open carries has more courage than any CCer" I was referring to the part where you said "a person that OCs has more courage than any CCer" (on Sun Aug 17th, 2008 01:33 pm) not the posts where you didn't say that. I don't know why you'd point to those posts to refute what I said.
 
Venator

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
imported post

smellslikemichigan wrote:
Venator wrote:
smellslikemichigan wrote:
Venator wrote:
cce1302 wrote:
To further draw this discussion away from the original poster's question, Venator and Marshaul, I believe you are comparing apples and oranges when measuring the couragouspeepees of OCers and CCers. One who carries concealed is not carrying to make a statement of his courage. He carries to defend himself (and others, if he chooses). If you are carrying openly in order to make a statement about your rights, so be it, but don't think that what you are doing makes you inherently more courageous than anybody else.

Venator said that one that open carries has more courage than any CCer. Maybe he just wears smaller pants and tighter shirts that don't cover IWB, so he has to wear a paddle holster.

Maybe the CCer wants to walk past a sign that says "no guns." It's possible and legal to CCW into a store posted No Guns, but not very likely to OC in there.

I'm aware that this forum is called "Open Carry" but that doesn't mean you need to be an ass or feel superiorto those who choose to carry concealed.
Click to expand...
I said it takes more courage to OC than CC. I never said CCers are cowards, again my point it takes courage to OC more so than it does to CC, if that wasn't true many more CPL holders would OC, just my opinion. I do both at different times with a paddle for OC and IWB for CC. It was only posted as a thought exercise. I'm glad people are thinking about it, and if just 10% of CPL holders OCed more then we would have an easier time educationing LEO's and the public.
Click to expand...
actually, to quote what you said, "As I've said before a person that OCs has more courage than any CCer." not, "it takes more courage to OC than CC." there is a distinct grammatical differance between the two.
Click to expand...
Look at my other posts, I did say that as well. again I stand by it.
Click to expand...
to say that any person that OCs has more courage than any CCer is a completely unprovable universal negative
edit: spelling
Click to expand...
I didn't say I could prove it. It'smy opinion, nothing more, and one I believe.
 
C

cce1302

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
265
Location
South Bend, Indiana, USA
imported post

Venator wrote:
smellslikemichigan wrote:
Venator wrote:
smellslikemichigan wrote:
Venator wrote:
cce1302 wrote:
To further draw this discussion away from the original poster's question, Venator and Marshaul, I believe you are comparing apples and oranges when measuring the couragouspeepees of OCers and CCers. One who carries concealed is not carrying to make a statement of his courage. He carries to defend himself (and others, if he chooses). If you are carrying openly in order to make a statement about your rights, so be it, but don't think that what you are doing makes you inherently more courageous than anybody else.

Venator said that one that open carries has more courage than any CCer. Maybe he just wears smaller pants and tighter shirts that don't cover IWB, so he has to wear a paddle holster.

Maybe the CCer wants to walk past a sign that says "no guns." It's possible and legal to CCW into a store posted No Guns, but not very likely to OC in there.

I'm aware that this forum is called "Open Carry" but that doesn't mean you need to be an ass or feel superiorto those who choose to carry concealed.
Click to expand...
I said it takes more courage to OC than CC. I never said CCers are cowards, again my point it takes courage to OC more so than it does to CC, if that wasn't true many more CPL holders would OC, just my opinion. I do both at different times with a paddle for OC and IWB for CC. It was only posted as a thought exercise. I'm glad people are thinking about it, and if just 10% of CPL holders OCed more then we would have an easier time educationing LEO's and the public.
Click to expand...
actually, to quote what you said, "As I've said before a person that OCs has more courage than any CCer." not, "it takes more courage to OC than CC." there is a distinct grammatical differance between the two.
Click to expand...
Look at my other posts, I did say that as well. again I stand by it.
Click to expand...
to say that any person that OCs has more courage than any CCer is a completely unprovable universal negative
edit: spelling
Click to expand...
I didn't say I could prove it. It'smy opinion, nothing more, and one I believe.
Click to expand...
Well your opinion certainly lends legitimacy to the stereotype of OCers being pee-pee-measuring-superiority-complex-laden attention whores, but that's my opinion, nothing more. I don't really believe all of us are like that, only you and others who demonstrate those qualities.
 
smellslikemichigan

smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
imported post

Venator wrote:
smellslikemichigan wrote:
Venator wrote:
smellslikemichigan wrote:
Venator wrote:
cce1302 wrote:
To further draw this discussion away from the original poster's question, Venator and Marshaul, I believe you are comparing apples and oranges when measuring the couragouspeepees of OCers and CCers. One who carries concealed is not carrying to make a statement of his courage. He carries to defend himself (and others, if he chooses). If you are carrying openly in order to make a statement about your rights, so be it, but don't think that what you are doing makes you inherently more courageous than anybody else.

Venator said that one that open carries has more courage than any CCer. Maybe he just wears smaller pants and tighter shirts that don't cover IWB, so he has to wear a paddle holster.

Maybe the CCer wants to walk past a sign that says "no guns." It's possible and legal to CCW into a store posted No Guns, but not very likely to OC in there.

I'm aware that this forum is called "Open Carry" but that doesn't mean you need to be an ass or feel superiorto those who choose to carry concealed.
Click to expand...
I said it takes more courage to OC than CC. I never said CCers are cowards, again my point it takes courage to OC more so than it does to CC, if that wasn't true many more CPL holders would OC, just my opinion. I do both at different times with a paddle for OC and IWB for CC. It was only posted as a thought exercise. I'm glad people are thinking about it, and if just 10% of CPL holders OCed more then we would have an easier time educationing LEO's and the public.
Click to expand...
actually, to quote what you said, "As I've said before a person that OCs has more courage than any CCer." not, "it takes more courage to OC than CC." there is a distinct grammatical differance between the two.
Click to expand...
Look at my other posts, I did say that as well. again I stand by it.
Click to expand...
to say that any person that OCs has more courage than any CCer is a completely unprovable universal negative
edit: spelling
Click to expand...
I didn't say I could prove it. It'smy opinion, nothing more, and one I believe.
Click to expand...
i guess that's where you and i differ. i tend to stay away from making statements that i can't back up with any verifiable facts.
 
Big Gay Al

Big Gay Al

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
1,944
Location
Mason, Michigan, USA
imported post

All this crap over semantics? As a former "strictly CC" type person, I will tell you ALL, it took me quite some time to screw up the COURAGE to walk around Lansing with my gun showing. (Sort of felt like walking around with my fly open, only without the breeze.)

So there, proof that it takes more courage to walk around OCing, than CCing. Which, by the way, I did day one from when I first got my permit, without any anxiety.

YMMV.
 
T

taxwhat

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2008
Messages
800
Location
S E Michgan all mine, Michigan, USA
imported post

Big Gay Al wrote:
All this crap over semantics? As a former "strictly CC" type person, I will tell you ALL, it took me quite some time to screw up the COURAGE to walk around Lansing with my gun showing. (Sort of felt like walking around with my fly open, only without the breeze.)

So there, proof that it takes more courage to walk around OCing, than CCing. Which, by the way, I did day one from when I first got my permit, without any anxiety.

YMMV.
Click to expand...
That is SAD I will pray for you
 
Big Gay Al

Big Gay Al

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
1,944
Location
Mason, Michigan, USA
imported post

taxwhat wrote:
Big Gay Al wrote:
All this crap over semantics? As a former "strictly CC" type person, I will tell you ALL, it took me quite some time to screw up the COURAGE to walk around Lansing with my gun showing. (Sort of felt like walking around with my fly open, only without the breeze.)

So there, proof that it takes more courage to walk around OCing, than CCing. Which, by the way, I did day one from when I first got my permit, without any anxiety.

YMMV.
Click to expand...
That is SAD I will pray for you
Click to expand...
No need to pray for me. I've made my transition.
 
T

taxwhat

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2008
Messages
800
Location
S E Michgan all mine, Michigan, USA
imported post

Big Gay Al wrote:
taxwhat wrote:
Big Gay Al wrote:
All this crap over semantics? As a former "strictly CC" type person, I will tell you ALL, it took me quite some time to screw up the COURAGE to walk around Lansing with my gun showing. (Sort of felt like walking around with my fly open, only without the breeze.)

So there, proof that it takes more courage to walk around OCing, than CCing. Which, by the way, I did day one from when I first got my permit, without any anxiety.

YMMV.
Click to expand...
That is SAD I will pray for you
Click to expand...
No need to pray for me. I've made my transition.
Click to expand...
This thread is so far off TOPIC I thought It was HATFEILD vs McCOY s
 
smellslikemichigan

smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
imported post

Big Gay Al wrote:
All this crap over semantics? As a former "strictly CC" type person, I will tell you ALL, it took me quite some time to screw up the COURAGE to walk around Lansing with my gun showing. (Sort of felt like walking around with my fly open, only without the breeze.)

So there, proof that it takes more courage to walk around OCing, than CCing. Which, by the way, I did day one from when I first got my permit, without any anxiety.

YMMV.
Click to expand...
you are relating your individual experience. and that's fine. you're not making a blanket generalization about an entire group of people vs another group of people. your point comes across much better the way YOU present it.:shock:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top