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Thread: Citizens Arrest/Detainment

  1. #1
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    This discussion is also being had here - http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/13975.html

    I'd like to see if we could pull some laws together so we can get a clear look at what LA Law says about this.

    I personally hope I never have to detain anyone, but I'd at least like to get straight what is right/wrong about it.

    Maybe our new member Pro OC Cop can shed some light.





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    CCRP Art. 214 Arrest by private person; when lawful

    Art. 214. Arrest by private person; when lawful

    A private person may make an arrest when the person arrested has committed a felony, whether in or out of his presence.

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    Now let's apply that with a firearm.



    List of Felonies;
    Crimes commonly considered to be felonies include, but are not limited to: aggravated assault and/or battery, arson, burglary, illegal drug abuse/sales, embezzlement, grand theft, treason, espionage, racketeering, robbery, murder, rape, kidnapping and fraud.





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    RS 14:2
    Definitions

    ยง2. Definitions

    A. In this Code the terms enumerated shall have the designated meanings:

    (4) "Felony" is any crime for which an offender may be sentenced to death or imprisonment at hard labor.

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    That's the challenge. Unless you're toting around a current copy of LRS, you'd better be damned sure you know what you're doing. Obviously, armed robbery, rape, etc is a no-brainer, but other areas you may want to brush up on.
    In the event it's a cop who's violating someone, you can always go back later and effect an arrest, which is something that needs to start happening in Louisiana, badly.
    Yea I hear you on that.

    But are there any stipulation when doing so with a weapon is my concern.

    As in We never plan to draw, unless we also intend to fire. So are there any Brandishing stipulation of concern here, or what ?

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    Pretty much the same stuff applies as always- force escalation, reasonable belief, etc.

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    Also, if you want more specific info on arrest procedures and the like, you can order the Louisiana Law Enforcement Handbook from the Louisiana District Attorneys Association web site for like $7.00. They will mail it to you, and it outlines the things LEOs are supposed to know. Good resource, not perfect, but educational.

    http://www.ldaa.org/pubs/publications.html

  8. #8
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    Mark, you know I love you man, and I hate the government as much as you do, but it is harder to win people over to your side when being so frequently abrasive.

    Not an admonition or advice, just an observation.



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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Unlike most, I am not trying to win anyone over to anything.
    If you study history, especially American history, when it comes time to do what needs to be done, that's always been done by a minority. Today is no different. If you're waiting on a majority to side with you, well, you're in for a long, long wait.
    I'm rather glad the folks at Lexington and Concord weren't concerned with offending the loyalists and the Redcoats, aren't you?
    Mark,

    There is a site that is better suited for your anti cop views. Try checking out www.copwatch.net I know that I am new here, but I don't believe that all of your cop hating smear belongs here. You are driving a wedge betweenlaw abiding OC citizens and LE every time you post. I was hesitant to join after I read numerous posts by you, but I decided to join anyway, however I don't believe that many other cops would sign up here and read your constant anti LE rants. And in my opinion, you are better off trying to educate the cops on the fact that OC is legal, than you are trying to create a confortation with them so you can become involved with another lawsuit.

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    There is always officer.com. Remember who are the mailed fist of our government.

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    As was taught to me, if you do something like this, then YOU ARE TAKING FULL RESPONSIBILTY for the situation. Which means that you could be sued or questioned if there is a debate on whether you acted accordingly. With that said, you could put yourself at risk in some instances, however I would really doubt that an officer would procecute you if you helped him do his job. However I have seen some jerk police officers and they have clearly told me "to leave the scene if you are not involved".

    Just be careful and know exactly what you are doing, and stick to your statements, andgive a good alibyabout why you did what you did, like "I feared for my life, or someone else life, therefore I felt the need to detain this person because of this".

    It's like my instructor said, "alot of getting out of situations such as this is to use the right wording to the police officers, courts and attorney's". My advice is to use good judgement and be smart! Good luck!

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    Reasonable advice.

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    I'm glad you guys have this thread. I was just about to make a thread asking some questions about this.

    I was wanting to find out if this would be OK on my part.

    My little brother went to a party at someones house one night where the dad allowed the high school kids to drink and smoke weed.

    Now the cops normally come to the parties and really don't say much about the kids drinking and they don't ever catch the ones smoking weed.

    Now here is where is gets bad in my opinion.

    While the party is going on, the dad decides to come out side with his gun and starts firing in the air for the hell of it.

    He told the kids it was blanks but we all know it was not blanks.

    Now this same kid is having a party tonight! I will be going to it this time to see what all goes on at this party.

    If the dad decides to come outside and start firing his weapon like a mad man, would a citizens arrest be 100% legal and would I be in any type of trouble if I pull my weapon to detain the situation?

    In my eyes, he was putting everyone's lives in danger.

    Would I be OK if I were to do this if it occurs tonight?

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    First off, you can only legally arrest someone for felonies as a regular citizen.

    Second off, calling the cops is always better if you can. A citizens arrest is best utilized only in emergencies and when it is absolutely necessary.

    I would say don't do it.

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    Louisiana Carry wrote:
    First off, you can only legally arrest someone for felonies as a regular citizen.

    Second off, calling the cops is always better if you can. A citizens arrest is best utilized only in emergencies and when it is absolutely necessary.

    I would say don't do it.
    Thanks I sent you a PM a little while ago

    I am working on getting my Deputy Reserve commission next week. Then I would be OK to do so lol

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    That's why cops have radios and supervisors.

    You could endup making a settlement like Gonzales did to Mark if you arrest someone without all the legalities being up to snuff.

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    Louisiana Carry wrote:
    That's why cops have radios and supervisors.

    You could endup making a settlement like Gonzales did to Mark if you arrest someone without all the legalities being up to snuff.
    Yes, this is true.

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    Well I just got back from this party.

    Right before I went to the party I sat at the Tangipahoa Sherrif's sub station with my buddy who is the Sergent and told him I was about to go to this party and he said that he already had some complaints about what happened last time and that he was going to be breaking it up soon.

    Well I get to the party and as I'm talking to some people that I know, I am choked from behind and feel someone going for my gun. I try to get control of the gun but instead I get my gun pointed at me.

    Its the crazy dad pointing my gun at me and screaming what the f%%% you doing with a gun I'm on parole and house arrest and I told him I'm with Mr.(Sergent) from the Tangi Sherrif (as my buddy told me to say if there was any trouble and after I call he would come take care of it)

    Well the dad tells me he doesn't give a F*** who I'm with and pulls a gun from his waste and puts it to my head and says he will blow my brains out. I stayed calm and just told him to put his gun down and return my firearm. After some people go to him and calm him down, he gives me my firearm back and says get the f*** out of here.

    So as it would have no longer been a "good kill" as I was no longer threated with a gun to my head, I walked away and called the Sgt.

    Once all of the cops pulled in, he tried to appoligize of course and then once he found out that everyone was a witness to what happened including his son, he threatened to press charges on me for tresspassing with a weapon on his property.

    So I couldn't press charges on him even though he put his gun to my head while holding my gun in my cheast because he would press charges on me.

    So after talking to my buddy, he suggested I let it go or he would be pressing charges on me as well.

    What would you guys have done in this situation? I knew it was no longer a "good kill" (no kill is a good kill) and I knew that even if I did have control of my weapon when he put his to my head and I would have shot him, his weed head buddies would have shot me.

    It was a tough situation but I did use my head and stayed calm about everything, but what would you guys have done?

    I know this should most likely be a thread of its own, but I'm posting here as I was just talking about this party in this thread eariler today.

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    First off, get some training on weapon retention and possibly a level 2 or 3 retention holster.

    Second off, don't put yourself in situations where crap like this is likely to happen.

    Third off, there are no charges that could stick for you open carrying to a place you were invited to. Trespassing charges are for places where you have no right to be or have been prohibited from.

    Also, backup guns are your friends. I have one in my pants if I have one on my hip, but I know that a second concealed weapon is not an option for you.

    Glad no one was hurt, but hopefully you never let yourself be in the middle of something like that again. You knew it was trouble, why did you go?

    The questions you should be asking yourself are not whether you would be justified by doing such-and-such, but rather- can this situation be avoided altogether?

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    OK, you say that he claimed to be on parole, and that he was carrying a gun of his own? That should have won him a trip back to prison right there, for violation of parole.

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    I smell an agent provocateur...in any event, something doesn't smell right about this...

    Grimstar

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    Anty506 wrote:
    It was a tough situation but I did use my head and stayed calm about everything, but what would you guys have done?
    No you did not use your head.

    Open carrying a Firearm to a party where dope heads and drunks are !?!? Are you crazy ?

    You brought this on yourself, bad idea. IMO

    Just be happy you didn't get your head split open by your own gun. Think about it. How would you have even defended yourself to begin with. Parties have lots of people. Plenty of innocent bystanders to be shot when your bullet goes thru whoever you were shooting in the first place. Plus it's a party, plenty of arrogant drunk a-holes. Bringing a gun in, only adds fuel to the fire for someone to test your nutts on whether or not you would use it.

    Bad Idea Bro, bad idea.

    I'm sure glad you made it out of there uninjured and alive, but I would defintely consider this a lesson.







  23. #23
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    Anty506 wrote:
    I'm glad you guys have this thread. I was just about to make a thread asking some questions about this.

    I was wanting to find out if this would be OK on my part.

    My little brother went to a party at someones house one night where the dad allowed the high school kids to drink and smoke weed.

    Now the cops normally come to the parties and really don't say much about the kids drinking and they don't ever catch the ones smoking weed.

    Now here is where is gets bad in my opinion.

    While the party is going on, the dad decides to come out side with his gun and starts firing in the air for the hell of it.

    He told the kids it was blanks but we all know it was not blanks.

    Now this same kid is having a party tonight! I will be going to it this time to see what all goes on at this party.

    If the dad decides to come outside and start firing his weapon like a mad man, would a citizens arrest be 100% legal and would I be in any type of trouble if I pull my weapon to detain the situation?

    In my eyes, he was putting everyone's lives in danger.

    Would I be OK if I were to do this if it occurs tonight?
    You're kidding, right? Do they still have chaingangs in LA? If you commit armed trespass you'll soon be able to tell us.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  24. #24
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    Criminal trespass
    A. No person shall enter any structure, watercraft, or movable owned by another without express, legal, or implied authorization.

    B. No person shall enter upon immovable property owned by another without express, legal, or implied authorization.

    C. No person shall remain in or upon property, movable or immovable, owned by another without express, legal, or implied authorization.

    D. It shall be an affirmative defense to a prosecution for a violation of Subsection A, B, or C of this Section, that the accused had express, legal, or implied authority to be in the movable or on the immovable property.

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    Anty506 wrote:
    ...but what would you guys have done?
    Stayed the hell away in the first place.

    Seriously, it's not your job to police the neighbors. Unless your kid was one of those down there drinking underage and smoking pot, and in that case your only reason to be there was to drag him out. Otherwise, stay away!


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