Liko81
Founder's Club Member
imported post
spectr019 wrote:
It depends on State law, and regardless of State law, legal =/= prudent.
It is generally acceptible to draw and fire in defense of a third person when that third person would themselves be justified in drawing and/or firing for their own defense. However, in any situation where a weapon is drawn, you are responsible for your actions, and for the path of every last one of your shots fired and what they hit.
So, you're in line at the Quality Dairy and someone runs in and points a gun at the clerk. At that point, the clerk wouldalmost always bejustified in returning the favor because they are being threatened with imminent deadly force for an illegal end. For that same reason, you are also virtually always justified in drawing because you are justified in protecting a third person if that person would be jusftified in protecting themself.
However, here's the flip side; FBI regs, which it is recommended you follow when choosing a personal protection round, mandate 12 inches penetration of ballistic gelatin. The FBI mandates this because they don't know what their next BG's build is going to be and they do NOT have the same liability for injury that a civilian does. If it was a good shoot against the BG, the police department and officer are generally shielded from liability for damages due to overpenetration or missed shots. You as a civilian are virtually never shielded from damages, and in many cases 12 inches of BG is nothing at all; shoot a methhead in the abdomen and that bullet's coming right back out the other side.I'm sure the store would thank you if you saved them from losing the contents of one or more tills at the cost of a hole in the drywall beyond the BG, but you're going to find yourself signing over your paychecks for the rest of your life if that bullet misses or overpenetrates and hits someone else in the store. You are responsible for every bullet you fire and EVERYthing each bullet hits, not just what it hit first.
THAT is why you should not play policeman. Your gun is your VERY LAST OPTION to prevent harm to you, your family and those in your immediate area. People play "what if" all the time; the robber could want money and then shoot the clerk as an afterthought, or they could be planning to shoot the clerk as soon as they open the till, then grab the tray and run. These are used to argue that you should always draw and shoot in such situations. Well, right back at ya; what ifyou miss? What if your shot passes straight through the BG and injures someone else? What if the bullet enters the BG, takes a sharp left turn off a rib and kills the clerk? What if the BG's finger twitches when he's shot and the clerk gets shot anyway? What if one or even two shots doesn't put the BG down? Adrenaline runs high and a hit to anything but the CNS is not guaranteed to immediately incapacitate even if the attacker will die from that wound.
So, there are a lot of variables in a shoot/don't shoot situation, not the least of which is how you yourself will react, and simple rules like "always shoot if" and "never shoot if" are oversimplifications that can ruin your life even if the police officers thank you personally for doing what you did.
spectr019 wrote:
It depends on State law, and regardless of State law, legal =/= prudent.
It is generally acceptible to draw and fire in defense of a third person when that third person would themselves be justified in drawing and/or firing for their own defense. However, in any situation where a weapon is drawn, you are responsible for your actions, and for the path of every last one of your shots fired and what they hit.
So, you're in line at the Quality Dairy and someone runs in and points a gun at the clerk. At that point, the clerk wouldalmost always bejustified in returning the favor because they are being threatened with imminent deadly force for an illegal end. For that same reason, you are also virtually always justified in drawing because you are justified in protecting a third person if that person would be jusftified in protecting themself.
However, here's the flip side; FBI regs, which it is recommended you follow when choosing a personal protection round, mandate 12 inches penetration of ballistic gelatin. The FBI mandates this because they don't know what their next BG's build is going to be and they do NOT have the same liability for injury that a civilian does. If it was a good shoot against the BG, the police department and officer are generally shielded from liability for damages due to overpenetration or missed shots. You as a civilian are virtually never shielded from damages, and in many cases 12 inches of BG is nothing at all; shoot a methhead in the abdomen and that bullet's coming right back out the other side.I'm sure the store would thank you if you saved them from losing the contents of one or more tills at the cost of a hole in the drywall beyond the BG, but you're going to find yourself signing over your paychecks for the rest of your life if that bullet misses or overpenetrates and hits someone else in the store. You are responsible for every bullet you fire and EVERYthing each bullet hits, not just what it hit first.
THAT is why you should not play policeman. Your gun is your VERY LAST OPTION to prevent harm to you, your family and those in your immediate area. People play "what if" all the time; the robber could want money and then shoot the clerk as an afterthought, or they could be planning to shoot the clerk as soon as they open the till, then grab the tray and run. These are used to argue that you should always draw and shoot in such situations. Well, right back at ya; what ifyou miss? What if your shot passes straight through the BG and injures someone else? What if the bullet enters the BG, takes a sharp left turn off a rib and kills the clerk? What if the BG's finger twitches when he's shot and the clerk gets shot anyway? What if one or even two shots doesn't put the BG down? Adrenaline runs high and a hit to anything but the CNS is not guaranteed to immediately incapacitate even if the attacker will die from that wound.
So, there are a lot of variables in a shoot/don't shoot situation, not the least of which is how you yourself will react, and simple rules like "always shoot if" and "never shoot if" are oversimplifications that can ruin your life even if the police officers thank you personally for doing what you did.
