hsmith
Regular Member
imported post
Phoenixphire wrote:
Phoenixphire wrote:
The market at work
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Texas district looking to allow teachers to carry guns to school
- Thread starter hsmith
- Start date
thorvaldr
Regular Member
imported post
Slayer of Paper wrote:
http://www.star-telegram.com/state_news/story/844988.html
Harrold school district's gun policy violates law, group says
By MARK AGEE
rmagee@star-telegram.com
Attorneys for a Washington, D.C.-based gun-control advocacy group have the tiny school district of Harrold in their sights.
The 110-student district, 150 miles northwest of Fort Worth near Wichita Falls, made international news last week with a new policy that allows teachers to carry handguns if they have a state permit and permission from the district. The move appears to be unprecedented.
But the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence says school officials may be violating state law.
"When I first read about this, I couldn’t believe it was legal," said Marsha McCartney, president of the Texas chapter of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "It turns out it wasn’t."
Harrold Superintendent David Thweatt didn’t return a phone call late Tuesday, but he has said that the district researched the idea for a year before presenting it to trustees. He has also said he is confident in the legality of the policy.
The change was necessary because his school is 30 minutes from the closest law enforcement agency, the Wilbarger County Sheriff’s Department, leaving students unprotected, he said.
Gov. Rick Perry endorsed the concept of Harrold’s policy at a news conference Monday, citing mass shootings he said could have been stopped if the victims had been armed. He cited the training required before a Harrold teacher or staff member can be approved to carry a gun as a factor that should alleviate concerns.
The legal issues
Texas criminal law prohibits firearms at schools "unless pursuant to the written regulations or written authorization of the institution."
That is the section of law that Harrold officials cited when discussing the policy.
Brady Center lawyers cite a section of the education code that could cloud the issue.
It reads, "If a board of trustees authorizes a person employed as security personnel to carry a weapon, the person must be a commissioned peace officer."
Cheryl Mehl, an Austin attorney who represents Harrold, said that statute does not apply in this instance.
"It says that’s the case if they are employed as a security personnel," she said. "These are not security personnel. Those are teachers who are just helping to make sure the school is a safer place."
Mehl said the issue is a matter of local control and "within the board’s authority."
"The Legislature has empowered them to govern and set policies as they see fit," she said.
Brady lawyers also said the policy is simply a bad idea.
"One of the reasons our nation’s K-12 schools are far safer than surrounding areas of society is because firearms are very tightly regulated on school property," a memo from the lawyers to the Texas chapter states. It cites federal data showing that children are safer at school than elsewhere. "It is a myth that gun-free schools increase the dangers to our children."
Slayer of Paper wrote:
Here's something you won't agree with:
http://www.star-telegram.com/state_news/story/844988.html
Harrold school district's gun policy violates law, group says
By MARK AGEE
rmagee@star-telegram.com
Attorneys for a Washington, D.C.-based gun-control advocacy group have the tiny school district of Harrold in their sights.
The 110-student district, 150 miles northwest of Fort Worth near Wichita Falls, made international news last week with a new policy that allows teachers to carry handguns if they have a state permit and permission from the district. The move appears to be unprecedented.
But the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence says school officials may be violating state law.
"When I first read about this, I couldn’t believe it was legal," said Marsha McCartney, president of the Texas chapter of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "It turns out it wasn’t."
Harrold Superintendent David Thweatt didn’t return a phone call late Tuesday, but he has said that the district researched the idea for a year before presenting it to trustees. He has also said he is confident in the legality of the policy.
The change was necessary because his school is 30 minutes from the closest law enforcement agency, the Wilbarger County Sheriff’s Department, leaving students unprotected, he said.
Gov. Rick Perry endorsed the concept of Harrold’s policy at a news conference Monday, citing mass shootings he said could have been stopped if the victims had been armed. He cited the training required before a Harrold teacher or staff member can be approved to carry a gun as a factor that should alleviate concerns.
The legal issues
Texas criminal law prohibits firearms at schools "unless pursuant to the written regulations or written authorization of the institution."
That is the section of law that Harrold officials cited when discussing the policy.
Brady Center lawyers cite a section of the education code that could cloud the issue.
It reads, "If a board of trustees authorizes a person employed as security personnel to carry a weapon, the person must be a commissioned peace officer."
Cheryl Mehl, an Austin attorney who represents Harrold, said that statute does not apply in this instance.
"It says that’s the case if they are employed as a security personnel," she said. "These are not security personnel. Those are teachers who are just helping to make sure the school is a safer place."
Mehl said the issue is a matter of local control and "within the board’s authority."
"The Legislature has empowered them to govern and set policies as they see fit," she said.
Brady lawyers also said the policy is simply a bad idea.
"One of the reasons our nation’s K-12 schools are far safer than surrounding areas of society is because firearms are very tightly regulated on school property," a memo from the lawyers to the Texas chapter states. It cites federal data showing that children are safer at school than elsewhere. "It is a myth that gun-free schools increase the dangers to our children."
trailblazer2003
Regular Member
imported post
thorvaldr wrote:
thorvaldr wrote:
The Brady lawyers actual included that in a memo! Guess they deny what happened at Columbine, VT, the Amish school, the numerous mall shootings, and every other GFZ.
Slayer of Paper
Regular Member
imported post
You're right, I absolutely disagree with that...and pretty much everything those crackpots say. In fact, the part I "agreed" with was basically meant as sarcasm from her. From me, it is simply good advice: ALWAYS BE ARMED!
In a related story, I heard that Front Sight, a firearms training center is offering free classes to the teachers of Harold school district. If true, I think that anyone who is considering taking any kind of firearms training should consider using Front Sight. I have been planning to take some defensive handgun training, so I will definitely be looking into that.
You're right, I absolutely disagree with that...and pretty much everything those crackpots say. In fact, the part I "agreed" with was basically meant as sarcasm from her. From me, it is simply good advice: ALWAYS BE ARMED!
In a related story, I heard that Front Sight, a firearms training center is offering free classes to the teachers of Harold school district. If true, I think that anyone who is considering taking any kind of firearms training should consider using Front Sight. I have been planning to take some defensive handgun training, so I will definitely be looking into that.
Task Force 16
Campaign Veteran
imported post
Some body needs to tell that McCartney winch to keep her big fat nose out of Texas's business. If she's so scared of guns let her moved to Europe.
Some body needs to tell that McCartney winch to keep her big fat nose out of Texas's business. If she's so scared of guns let her moved to Europe.
deepdiver
Campaign Veteran
imported post
Gov't school, gov't education, interference in local educational decisions ... no wonder gov't education is generally crap. If these people want their local school board to vote against legal firearms in school, I'm not going to go to their school board meeting and argue against it. None of my business what their local school does. These people have no business interfering in local school decisions.
Gov't school, gov't education, interference in local educational decisions ... no wonder gov't education is generally crap. If these people want their local school board to vote against legal firearms in school, I'm not going to go to their school board meeting and argue against it. None of my business what their local school does. These people have no business interfering in local school decisions.
Xeni
Regular Member
imported post
Some positive comments to this editorial.
http://www.insidenova.com/isn/news/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/article/school_district_protects_its_students/19913/
I was actually surprised - even some Obama-type supporters thought it was a good idea.
Some positive comments to this editorial.
http://www.insidenova.com/isn/news/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/article/school_district_protects_its_students/19913/
I was actually surprised - even some Obama-type supporters thought it was a good idea.
Notso
Campaign Veteran
imported post
Check out this response from Proud Texan.
http://pod01.prospero.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=362&nav=messages&webtag=kr-fortworthtm&tid=3662
First time I've seen the 'for the children' argument turned around on the Brady Bunch. Seems like a pretty good tactic.
Check out this response from Proud Texan.
http://pod01.prospero.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=362&nav=messages&webtag=kr-fortworthtm&tid=3662
First time I've seen the 'for the children' argument turned around on the Brady Bunch. Seems like a pretty good tactic.
imported post
The American school where teachers carry a pen, a ruler and ... a gun
School authorities in Harrold, Texas, say loaded pistols in the hands of trained teachers will make its students and staff safer.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/18/texas.school
Bold for skimmers
When teachers return for a new school term in the tiny Texas farming town of Harrold, they can bring a extra tool of the trade alongside books, pens and worksheets. To defend pupils from any gun-toting maniacs, they can carry loaded pistols into the classroom.
With barely 300 residents, the remote rural community in the state's northern dustbowl has appalled gun control advocates by becoming the first in the US to allow its teachers to bear concealed firearms.
Harrold's school board maintains that the move is necessary because the town is 25 miles from the nearest sheriff's office, making it hard to get swift help in an emergency. Its location just yards from a major highway, America's north-south interstate 287, makes it a potential "target" for armed maniacs. "We are 30 minutes from law enforcement," Harrold's school superintendent, David Thweatt, told the Guardian. "How long do you think it would take to kill all 150 of us? It would be a bloodbath." Carefully selected teachers are to be trained in crisis management including handling hostage situations. Thweatt said: "When you have good guys with guns, the bad guys do less damage."
More than a dozen mass shooting tragedies have hit US educational establishments over a decade, including the Columbine massacre which claimed 15 lives at a Colorado high school in 1999 and last year's Virginia Tech massacre which left 33 people dead. When pressed on such cases, the powerful pro-gun lobby often argues that Congress sent out a message of vulnerability in a 1990 law which banned guns in schools - although the law was declared unconstitutional and overturned by the Supreme Court five years later.
"We've had a very disturbing trend of school shootings in the US," said Thweatt. "It is my belief this is caused by making schools gun-free zones. When schools were made gun-free zones, they became targets for people who wanted to rack up the body count."
As is commonplace in America, Harrold's school already has tough security including card-swipe entry for rooms and screening for visitors. Armed teachers must get a state gun licence and will be required to use bullets of a type less liable to ricochet off walls or desks.
Teachers' unions in Texas have expressed horror. "It's a disaster waiting to happen," Gayle Fallon, president of the Houston Federation of Teachers said. She described it as the sort of manoeuvre that makes Texas a laughing stock: "It's up there with the worst ideas in the history of education."
Ken Trump, an Ohio-based specialist in advising school boards on security, suggested it would be more sensible to hire security guards than to give guns to "minimally supervised, minimally trained" teachers. "You could have a gun accidentally taken away, or a gun could be dislodged or discharged while a teacher's breaking up a fight in the cafeteria," said Trump.
While not quite in the wild west, Harrold can lay historical claim to be a frontier community. Named after a rancher called Ephraim Harrold, the town has its roots as a railway terminus - during the 1880s, it was the westernmost point of a line which eventually ran from the heart of Texas to Denver in Colorado's Rocky Mountains. The town's school, which has 110 students from kindergarten up to the age of 18, offers courses with a farming bent such as agricultural metal fabrication, soil sciences and horticulture.
Harrold's gun policy was praised by the pro-gun nationwide Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Its chairman, Alan Gottlieb, said the town's school buildings would be safer: "Allowing armed staff and teachers will provide a last line of defence if other security measures at the school fail." He argued that teachers would be able to respond faster to a classroom shooting than a security guard: "Officers can't be everywhere and in an emergency, every second counts."
Harrold's school board is unapologetic about the controversy. Thweatt said the thick brick walls of Harrold's school protected pupils from tornadoes - and the school authorities had a duty to protect children for human attacks. "When you hear about these shootings, the reports always start out with 'this is a sleepy little place, nobody thought this would ever happen here'," said Thweatt.
The American school where teachers carry a pen, a ruler and ... a gun
School authorities in Harrold, Texas, say loaded pistols in the hands of trained teachers will make its students and staff safer.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/18/texas.school
Bold for skimmers
When teachers return for a new school term in the tiny Texas farming town of Harrold, they can bring a extra tool of the trade alongside books, pens and worksheets. To defend pupils from any gun-toting maniacs, they can carry loaded pistols into the classroom.
With barely 300 residents, the remote rural community in the state's northern dustbowl has appalled gun control advocates by becoming the first in the US to allow its teachers to bear concealed firearms.
Harrold's school board maintains that the move is necessary because the town is 25 miles from the nearest sheriff's office, making it hard to get swift help in an emergency. Its location just yards from a major highway, America's north-south interstate 287, makes it a potential "target" for armed maniacs. "We are 30 minutes from law enforcement," Harrold's school superintendent, David Thweatt, told the Guardian. "How long do you think it would take to kill all 150 of us? It would be a bloodbath." Carefully selected teachers are to be trained in crisis management including handling hostage situations. Thweatt said: "When you have good guys with guns, the bad guys do less damage."
More than a dozen mass shooting tragedies have hit US educational establishments over a decade, including the Columbine massacre which claimed 15 lives at a Colorado high school in 1999 and last year's Virginia Tech massacre which left 33 people dead. When pressed on such cases, the powerful pro-gun lobby often argues that Congress sent out a message of vulnerability in a 1990 law which banned guns in schools - although the law was declared unconstitutional and overturned by the Supreme Court five years later.
"We've had a very disturbing trend of school shootings in the US," said Thweatt. "It is my belief this is caused by making schools gun-free zones. When schools were made gun-free zones, they became targets for people who wanted to rack up the body count."
As is commonplace in America, Harrold's school already has tough security including card-swipe entry for rooms and screening for visitors. Armed teachers must get a state gun licence and will be required to use bullets of a type less liable to ricochet off walls or desks.
Teachers' unions in Texas have expressed horror. "It's a disaster waiting to happen," Gayle Fallon, president of the Houston Federation of Teachers said. She described it as the sort of manoeuvre that makes Texas a laughing stock: "It's up there with the worst ideas in the history of education."
Ken Trump, an Ohio-based specialist in advising school boards on security, suggested it would be more sensible to hire security guards than to give guns to "minimally supervised, minimally trained" teachers. "You could have a gun accidentally taken away, or a gun could be dislodged or discharged while a teacher's breaking up a fight in the cafeteria," said Trump.
While not quite in the wild west, Harrold can lay historical claim to be a frontier community. Named after a rancher called Ephraim Harrold, the town has its roots as a railway terminus - during the 1880s, it was the westernmost point of a line which eventually ran from the heart of Texas to Denver in Colorado's Rocky Mountains. The town's school, which has 110 students from kindergarten up to the age of 18, offers courses with a farming bent such as agricultural metal fabrication, soil sciences and horticulture.
Harrold's gun policy was praised by the pro-gun nationwide Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Its chairman, Alan Gottlieb, said the town's school buildings would be safer: "Allowing armed staff and teachers will provide a last line of defence if other security measures at the school fail." He argued that teachers would be able to respond faster to a classroom shooting than a security guard: "Officers can't be everywhere and in an emergency, every second counts."
Harrold's school board is unapologetic about the controversy. Thweatt said the thick brick walls of Harrold's school protected pupils from tornadoes - and the school authorities had a duty to protect children for human attacks. "When you hear about these shootings, the reports always start out with 'this is a sleepy little place, nobody thought this would ever happen here'," said Thweatt.