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Thread: Alcohol and Open Carry

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    If you have a CPL and are carrying there is basically a "no-tolerance for alcohol policy" (.02 BAC) By getting your CPL you also give consent tosearch.

    What about if you're carrying in the open in Michigan? Is there anything that regulates alcohol consumption? Obviously guns and alcohol are a bad mix. I was just wondering about the legality of the situation.



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    jjto2001 wrote:
    If the Army and the Navy
    Ever look on Heaven's scenes;
    They will find the streets are guarded by
    UNITED STATES MARINES!
    If the USMC comes there then a USNavy sailor came there first.

    Thank you for your service.

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    jjto2001 wrote:
    If you have a CPL and are carrying there is basically a "no-tolerance for alcohol policy" (.02 BAC) .
    That is correct.

    By getting your CPL you also give consent tosearch.
    Not so sure about that. Maybe someone else can clarify.


    What about if you're carrying in the open in Michigan? Is there anything that regulates alcohol consumption? Obviously guns and alcohol are a bad mix. I was just wondering about the legality of the situation
    Im pretty sure that falls under the same guidelines. Again, more clarification may be needed.
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    jjto2001 wrote:
    If you have a CPL and are carrying there is basically a "no-tolerance for alcohol policy" (.02 BAC) By getting your CPL you also give consent tosearch.

    What about if you're carrying in the open in Michigan? Is there anything that regulates alcohol consumption? Obviously guns and alcohol are a bad mix. I was just wondering about the legality of the situation.



    If the Army and the Navy
    Ever look on Heaven's scenes;
    They will find the streets are guarded by
    UNITED STATES MARINES!
    I agree. I looove my Jim Beam but I stay clear of the booze when carrying.
    I would imagine the same rules apply.

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    "If the USMC comes there then a USNavy sailor came there first."



    Thanks and from your knowledge I would guess I should thank you for your service also. :-)

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    Tucker6900 wrote:
    By getting your CPL you also give consent tosearch.
    Not so sure about that. Maybe someone else can clarify.
    This info may be wrong- it's what I was taught in my CPL class and I've read about instructors saying a lot of crazy things.

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    jjto2001 wrote:
    ... Obviously guns and alcohol are a bad mix.
    Sorry, I do not have an answer to your question, but I want to make a minor pont about the quoted statement.

    I do not think it is "obvious" at all. IMO it is entirely a matter of opinion and depends on the individual.

    If one is the type that likes to drink to impairment and/or are a person that tends to not be able to control your drinking or yourself, then you will likely not want to carry while drinking.

    I don't often have any alcoholic beverages while in public but on rare occation, when I do:
    1) I do not drink to excess/impairment and I am not the type to loose control of m drinking.
    2) I will not give up my means of self defense if I do decide to have a beer or two.

    Post is not meant to re-kindle this old debate, but more to remind folks that there simply is no "carrying and drinking = irresponsible" decree. It's simply not that simple.

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    jjto2001 wrote:
    Tucker6900 wrote:
    By getting your CPL you also give consent tosearch.
    Not so sure about that. Maybe someone else can clarify.
    This info may be wrong- it's what I was taught in my CPL class and I've read about instructors saying a lot of crazy things.
    The alcohol content 0.02 is addressed in regards to Concealed carry and does not address OC. I would think the laws that deal with public intoxication would apply, that is .08. But an officer can cite you with impaired for any amount of alcohol in your system, so the advise is don't drink and carry.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    The alcohol content 0.02 is addressed in regards to Concealed carry and does not address OC. I would think the laws that deal with public intoxication would apply, that is .08. But an officer can cite you with impaired for any amount of alcohol in your system, so the advise is don't drink and carry.
    You're answer would be the common sense answer. But would that mean that if your carrying concealed and you decide to have a beer or two, you should then carry in the open and you're o.k. (legally)???

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    In my humble and one sided opinion, the question is moot given that I would NEVER even consider drinking and carrying in ANY fashion. Ergo, the amount of alcohol doesn't matter.

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    jjto2001 wrote:
    If you have a CPL and are carrying there is basically a "no-tolerance for alcohol policy" (.02 BAC) By getting your CPL you also give consent tosearch.

    What about if you're carrying in the open in Michigan? Is there anything that regulates alcohol consumption? Obviously guns and alcohol are a bad mix. I was just wondering about the legality of the situation.



    If the Army and the Navy
    Ever look on Heaven's scenes;
    They will find the streets are guarded by
    UNITED STATES MARINES!
    I do not think this is true at all, I'm gonna look into it right now. I can't see how getting a CPL gives up your 4th amendment right.

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    The law is irrelivant. We need to conduct ourselves in the appropriate way, regardless of what old white crooks in suits say on the matter through votes. That means that one drop of booze or any other intoxicant means disarming, end of story.
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    Uh, can somebody cite to the statute re alcohol blood level and holding or using a CPL? That;s where we need to start.

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    Section 28.425k

    FIREARMS (EXCERPT)
    Act 372 of 1927

    28.425k Acceptance of license as implied consent to submit to chemical analysis of breath, blood, or urine.
    Sec. 5k.
    (1) Acceptance of a license issued under this act to carry a concealed pistol constitutes implied consent to submit to a chemical analysis under this section. This section also applies to individuals listed in section 12a(a) to (f).
    (2) An individual shall not carry a concealed pistol while he or she is under the influence of alcoholic liquor or a controlled substance or while having a bodily alcohol content prohibited under this section. A person who violates this section is responsible for a state civil infraction or guilty of a crime as follows:
    (a) If the person was under the influence of alcoholic liquor or a controlled substance or a combination of alcoholic liquor and a controlled substance, or had a bodily alcohol content of .10 or more grams per 100 milliliters of blood, per 210 liters of breath, or per 67 milliliters of urine, the individual is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 93 days or $100.00, or both. The court shall order the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual a license to carry a concealed pistol to permanently revoke the license. The concealed weapon licensing board shall permanently revoke the license as ordered by the court.
    (b) If the person had a bodily alcohol content of .08 or more but less than .10 grams per 100 milliliters of blood, per 210 liters of breath, or per 67 milliliters of urine, the individual is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 93 days or $100.00, or both. The court may order the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual a license to carry a concealed pistol to revoke the license for not more than 3 years. The concealed weapon licensing board shall revoke the license as ordered by the court.
    (c) If the person had a bodily alcohol content of .02 or more but less than .08 grams per 100 milliliters of blood, per 210 liters of breath, or per 67 milliliters of urine, the individual is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than $100.00. The court may order the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual the license to revoke the license for 1 year. The concealed weapon licensing board shall revoke the license as ordered by the court. The court shall notify the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual a license to carry a concealed pistol if an individual is found responsible for a subsequent violation of this subdivision.
    (3) This section does not prohibit an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol who has any bodily alcohol content from transporting that pistol in the locked trunk of his or her motor vehicle or another motor vehicle in which he or she is a passenger or, if the vehicle does not have a trunk, from transporting that pistol unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol or on a vessel if the pistol is transported unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol.
    (4) A peace officer who has probable cause to believe an individual is carrying a concealed pistol in violation of this section may require the individual to submit to a chemical analysis of his or her breath, blood, or urine.
    (5) Before an individual is required to submit to a chemical analysis under subsection (4), the peace officer shall inform the individual of all of the following:
    (a) The individual may refuse to submit to the chemical analysis, but if he or she chooses to do so, all of the following apply:
    (i) The officer may obtain a court order requiring the individual to submit to a chemical analysis.
    (ii) The refusal may result in his or her license to carry a concealed pistol being suspended or revoked.
    (b) If the individual submits to the chemical analysis, he or she may obtain a chemical analysis described in subsection (4) from a person of his or her own choosing.
    (6) The collection and testing of breath, blood, and urine specimens under this section shall be conducted in the same manner that breath, blood, and urine specimens are collected and tested for alcohol- and controlled-substance-related driving violations under the Michigan vehicle code, 1949 PA 300, MCL 257.1 to 257.923.
    (7) If a person refuses to take a chemical test authorized under this section, the peace officer shall promptly report the refusal in writing to the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the license to the individual to carry a concealed pistol.
    (8) If a person takes a chemical test authorized under this section and the test results indicate that the individual had any bodily alcohol content while carrying a concealed pistol, the peace officer shall promptly report the violation in writing to the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the license to the individual to carry a concealed pistol.
    (9) As used in this section:
    (a) “Alcoholic liquor” means that term as defined in section 105 of the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1105.
    (b) “Controlled substance” means that term as defined in section 7104 of the public health code, 1978 PA 368, MCL 333.7401.

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    Looks like to me, from the statute, that only concealed carriers are subject to BAC testing and penalty for having alcohol in their system. This is similar to Virginia. of course, In virginia, and I imagine MI, it is unlawful to be publicly intoxicated at any time, even in a bar.

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    Mike wrote:
    Looks like to me, from the statute, that only concealed carriers are subject to BAC testing and penalty for having alcohol in their system. This is similar to Virginia. of course, In virginia, and I imagine MI, it is unlawful to be publicly intoxicated at any time, even in a bar.
    So theoretically, with a CPL you could carry concealed to dinner and have a couple beers and just use open carry rules on way home.

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    If you are OCing, have one drink during and have interaction with a LEO about your OCing that may be probable cause to arrest you (remember that you can get arrested for anything) When it comes to drinking it’s up to the discretion of the LEO to arrest you or not and since a firearm is involved the charge is escalated to a felony. I maybe wrong with the felony part but when it comes to cops and booze my experience with a DUI is they can do anything they want!
    "A man with a briefcase can steal millions more than any man with a gun"
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    steve jaye wrote:
    If you are OCing, have one drink during and have interaction with a LEO about your OCing that may be probable cause to arrest you (remember that you can get arrested for anything) When it comes to drinking it’s up to the discretion of the LEO to arrest you or not and since a firearm is involved the charge is escalated to a felony. I maybe wrong with the felony part but when it comes to cops and booze my experience with a DUI is they can do anything they want!
    Huh? Cite to authority, please!

    You just posted multiple conflated rules of law. "Probable cause" to arrest for - somthing that is not a crime?

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    I know OCing is not a crime but drunk and disorderly is, if a cop pulls you over and he smells alcohol even if you blow way under the legal limit its his discretion to decide if your impaired or not. Same goes for walking in public after drinking.
    "A man with a briefcase can steal millions more than any man with a gun"
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    steve jaye wrote:
    I know OCing is not a crime but drunk and disorderly is, if a cop pulls you over and he smells alcohol even if you blow way under the legal limit its his discretion to decide if your impaired or not. Same goes for walking in public after drinking.
    Cite to authority.

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    Here is the law for OC; but, as was stated earlier, I would stronly suggest one doesn't drink and carry ;a PO may arrest if "under the influence" which is very discretionary.

    MC750.237 Liquor or controlled substance; possession or use of firearm by person under influence; violation;penalty; chemical analysis.

    Sec. 237. (1) An individual shall not carry, have in possession or under control, or use in any manner or discharge a firearm
    under any of the following circumstances:
    (a) The individual is under the influence of alcoholic liquor, a controlled substance, or a combination of alcoholic liquor and
    a controlled substance.
    (b) The individual has an alcohol content of 0.08 or more grams per 100 milliliters of blood, per 210 liters of breath, or per
    67 milliliters of urine.

    (c) Because of the consumption of alcoholic liquor, a controlled substance, or a combination of alcoholic liquor and a controlled
    substance, the individual’s ability to use a firearm is visibly impaired.
    (2) Except as provided in subsections (3) and (4), an individual who violates subsection (1) is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable
    by imprisonment for not more than 93 days or a fine of not more than $100.00 for carrying or possessing a firearm, or
    both, and not more than $500.00 for using or discharging a firearm, or both.
    (3) An individual who violates subsection (1) and causes a serious impairment of a body function of another individual by
    the discharge or use in any manner of the firearm is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years
    or a fine of not less than $1,000.00 or more than $5,000.00, or both. As used in this subsection, “serious impairment of a body
    function” includes, but is not limited to, 1 or more of the following:
    (a) Loss of a limb or use of a limb.
    (b) Loss of a hand, foot, finger, or thumb or use of a hand, foot, finger, or thumb.
    (c) Loss of an eye or ear or of use of an eye or ear.
    (d) Loss or substantial impairment of a bodily function.
    (e) Serious visible disfigurement.
    (f) A comatose state that lasts for more than 3 days.
    (g) Measurable brain damage or mental impairment.
    (h) A skull fracture or other serious bone fracture.
    (i) Subdural hemorrhage or subdural hematoma.
    (j) Loss of an organ.
    (4) An individual who violates subsection (1) and causes the death of another individual by the discharge or use in any manner
    of a firearm is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 15 years or a fine of not less than $2,500.00
    or more than $10,000.00, or both.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

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