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Thread: Open Carry Petition

  1. #1
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    A while back I saw a thread about petitions being given to all 72 county Sherriffs in Wisconsin. I was wondering what the results were.

    Grizz
    Just a new guy checking things out.

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    I sent this email to Gene German a couple of days ago.

    What is the status of the county resolutions? It was my understanding that the petitions were asked to be submitted by july 18 so that distribution of the resolutions could follow. I feel my signature on the petitions affords me the courtesy of being informed of the progress of the resolutions.

    This is the response I received.

    feel my signature on the petitions affords me the courtesy of being informed of the progress of the resolutions.

    I’m sorry Dale, but a progress report is not owed or provided to anyone who signed a petition.

    I am taking my time to thoughtfully do all that needs to be done to achieve the best possible outcome.

    Gene German
    Minnesota DPS Certified Firearms Instructor
    Utah BCI CertifiedFirearms Instructor
    AACFI Wisconsin State Director

    www.permittocarry.us



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    Perhaps the development of the County Resolution Petition is summarized in this thread http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...229605#p229605

    As noted there, I have sent my petition to my County Board preemptively to avoid being associated with any organization, the principles and principals of which I do not agree.

    Licensed mandatory concealed carry is an unconscionable infringement of the Second Amendment upon which the NRA and its members depend for their livelihood, the sale of dispensations from the infringement for thirty pieces of silver.

    Please, Good Neighbor, send your petition to your County Board of Supervisors forthwith. If Mr. German has your signature it can do no harm and it can do no harm to ensure that your Board knows of your interest in restoring our RKABA but you will control the process of your petition.



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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Perhaps the development of the County Resolution Petition is summarized in this thread* http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...229605#p229605
    As noted there, I have sent my petition to my County Board preemptively to avoid being associated with any organization, the principles and principals of which I do not agree.

    Licensed mandatory concealed carry is an unconscionable infringement of the Second Amendment upon which the NRA and its members depend for their livelihood, the sale of dispensations from the infringement for thirty pieces of silver.
    You're looking at one part of a large problem from a biased viewpoint.

    Your perpetual ramblings of infringement, concealed carry, and NRA have nothing to do with the very simple and straight-forward petition.

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    You and your Fagin have little to do with the simple and straight forward petition. Or; have you sent yours to your County Board yet? If not, why not?

    Only Rock Bama has an unbiased point of view.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA ******* Get the point, man?

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Licensed mandatory concealed carry is an unconscionable infringement of the Second Amendment upon which the NRA and its members depend for their livelihood, the sale of dispensations from the infringement for thirty pieces of silver.

    That's thirty-five words and if that is 'rambling' then what are your screeds?



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    Ok
    Lets try things this way.
    Has any thing been sent to the Dodge county, Sherriff, DA, or County board about open carry?
    Lamine Thaks for the reply.
    Mr Hoffman I take it you don't care for the NRA but what does the remark about FAGIN mean, Or Rock Bbama has the only unbiased view point mean.

    Thanks Grizz

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    Perhaps the best way to illustrate GG's hidden motive concerning our right to carry firearms for protection is with the following excerpts from his web site http://www.permittocarry.us Click on the Wisconsin button.

    First the quotation:"There are some things one can only acheive by a deliberate leap in the opposite direction."

    In other words the road to concealed carry is through open carry.

    Nextis the second objective of the open carry resolution movement. "The second objective is to eventually enact a good permit to carry law ----."

    Folks: One does not need a goverment regulated permit to exercise their constitutional rights.

    To this point I have given GG the benifit of the doubt. Largely because our contest with local law enforcement harassment of open carry can use all the help it can get. However, his autocratic, self centered, and sarcastic response to my email inquiring on the status of the resolution movement, a question I felt I had a vested interest in, convinced me his help may be counter-productive.



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    My apologies, they are distractions.

    Re 'Fagin', it is part of this thread's description http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum57/13553.html visible only from the Wisconsin sub-forum's index page http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum57/

    Re 'Rock Bama', an epithet for Barack Hussein Obama, the only unbiassed personality in the media.

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    I am trying to get information on the petitions for my story. I just need to know the number of signatures and how many if any have been sent out.



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    Lammie wrote:
    Folks: One does not need a goverment regulated permit to exercise their constitutional rights.
    At present if you wish to conceal carry in all but two states and wish to remain out of prison if discovered, you must indeed have a permit.

    That is the way it is right now. You can argue all you want that it shouldn't be, and you would be right IMO, but it still is that way. For now.

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    Ibob you misunderstood my intent. My intnet was to say that a person doesn't need goverment approval or permits to exercise constitutional rights. For instance. I don't need to get a goverment permit to exercise my first amendment rights to contribute posts to this forum. We don't need a permit to exercise our constitutional rights to posess and carry arms. The only contest is the manner by which we do so.

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    What petition?? I didn't get to sign one and didn't know about it until I joined this site. My gun club didn't notify me either. Everything sounds good and makes sense but how well was this organized?

    "I’m sorry Dale, but a progress report is not owed or provided to anyone who signed a petition."

    Maybe it isn't owed but when asked you would think you would get an update.

    I tend to agree with Lammie from what I've heard: "However, his autocratic, self centered, and sarcastic response to my email inquiring on the status of the resolution movement, a question I felt I had a vested interest in, convinced me his help may be counter-productive." Is the guy just sitting on the petition to waste time? I can even understand the need for time to do it right but it was the way it was answered that leaves the petition in question. Maybe we're just anxious because we've had our rights denied for so long. Don't know and don't know who to trust. (Gene that is)

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    Trust yourself. Speak-up though your voice quavers. Write and send your own petition. Be a leader from the midst of the pack rather than 'of the pack'.

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    Nope. "Pointman" is mistaken again.

    I am part of the anti-CCW anti-mandatory-training anti-licensed gun-carry grass roots movement.

    My Wisconsin County RKABA resolution petition is in the hands of my County Board. I accept no leader whom I don't trust and whose principles I don't trust. If there is potential political or financial gain then I don't trust 'em.

    And I suspect that I have been involved in gun rights activism/advocacy longer than the pointless one, even in Wisconsin though I am a relative newcomer to the State. I am certainly better acquainted with the actions of those that have led us to our current straits. "Pointman", German, Fendry, Baker, Graff are due all credit for the current situation.

    I have been around enough to see and understand the perfidy of the NRA and its subscribers that are no different here in Wisconsin than they were in SC and NC when I was a gun rights soldier there. I carried a gun for ten years and have my GrassRoots Gorilla pin

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    Pointman, You insult me. Nobody on this forum is more pro-gun than I am. I have been involved in the promotion of our individual rights to keep and bear arms since 1998. People and individuals I have had back and forth dialogue on gun rights are Senator Zien, Mike Bruhn(Rep Gunderson office), WCCA (Dick Baker), NRA/ILA, Mike Lutz (Head,DNR legal department), Senator Shiela Harsdorf, Corey Graf(WGO), Ken Lee(Attorney General Office), Pierce County Attorney O'Boyle, State Rep. John Murtha, John Lott, Two published letters concerning gun rights in the Pierce County Herald, Two published letters promoting gun rights in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. Finally private correspondence with Gene German. I have documentation supporting all those contacts.

    Your assesment of my letter concerning the Attorney General wanting to give Steingraeber special authority to carry a concealed weapon is wrong. If you carefully read the letter you will see that the argument I voiced was; Even though Steingraeber is a retired cop he has no more firearm carry authority than the average person and if VanHollen makes an exception to the carry rules for Steingraeberit should be made for all persons.

    As far as Gene German is concerned. Do we each share the same passion of firearm carry for personal protection? Yup. Do we each think we need a co-ordinated effort and organization to make it happen? Yup. Do we agree on the best method to make it happen? Nope. Are we entitled to have those differences? Yup.

    What are the basic differences?

    German's objective, by his own admission on his web site, is to promote open carry in the hope that it will lead to a good carry permit system and law.

    My objective: Promote a universalstatewide recognition by local law enforcement that we have the constitutional authority to open carry firearms for personal protection. An authority that does not require a permit to practice but onethat is a constitutionally given right. A right that does not require a permit system with costly training, unknown regulations, and restrictions beyond those we already have. I am not a Certified Firearms Instructor. There is no financial gain for me to promote a permit system.

    If you follow the posts on this forum with an unpredjudiced viewpoint you will see that the objective I promote is gathering momentum. Letters are being written by other members to the media, Letters from members to local law enforcement are being sent and have a 50-50 positive response, letters to members of the legislature are gaining support and a private resolution has already been siubmitted to a county board.

    The resolutions German is promoting appear to have gone dead in the water. He won't even acknowledge how many have been presented to the countiesor their status. Instead he insists the status is his business and his alone.

    Pointman: I don't owe you a response to your deflamatory and insulting post. In fact it lowers my self esteem to do so. I don't appreciated being so much as called a Troll by you, but I have been called worse by better people. The only reason I respond is to make my dedication to the open carry movement and my personal objectives clear to the other members of this forum.

    By the way did you change your forum name from ccwtrainer to pointman? your post seems suspiciously so.



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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Nope. "Pointman" is mistaken again.

    I am part of the anti-CCW anti-mandatory-training anti-licensed gun-carry grass roots movement.
    I read this to mean that you are anti-CCW. I understand being against the other items. Could you explain why your against CCW? (anti-CCW) Being for CCW doesn't mean that you are for special requirements to Carry Concealed weapon.

    Majority in a democracy is important too so could you explain why it shouldn't be an organized effort?

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  21. #21
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    Pointman:

    It's none of your business but the reason for me not leaving the solitude of my keyboard are physical.

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    Lammie wrote:

    Your assesment of my letter concerning the Attorney General wanting to give Steingraeber special authority to carry a concealed weapon is wrong. If you carefully read the letter you will see that the argument I voiced was; Even though Steingraeber is a retired cop he has no more firearm carry authority than the average person and if VanHollen makes an exception to the carry rules for Steingraeberit should be made for all persons.



    German's objective, by his own admission on his web site, is to promote open carry in the hope that it will lead to a good carry permit system and law.



    The resolutions German is promoting appear to have gone dead in the water. He won't even acknowledge how many have been presented to the countiesor their status. Instead he insists the status is his business and his alone.

    Lammie,I thought your post was clear as stated above. Since the petition was for OC we can't expect anything else from it. One thing I learned from this is to get it in writing that the status of any petition signed by me is my business too. It sounds like allot of work has been wasted or we're loosing the battle.

    A person would think that even the anti-gun lurkers would learn something at this site. Illegal people and dope flood the country but guns won't. Idiots, true idiots that don't care about themselves or their families.

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    S.E.WI wrote:
    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Nope. "Pointman" is mistaken again.

    I am part of the anti-CCW anti-mandatory-training anti-licensed gun-carry grass roots movement.
    I read this to mean that you are anti-CCW. I understand being against the other items. Could you explain why your against CCW? (anti-CCW) Being for CCW doesn't mean that you are for special requirements to Carry Concealed weapon.

    Majority in a democracy is important too so could you explain why it shouldn't be an organized effort?
    It is one sentence without commas. Your 'reading' suits your purpose.

    Un-restricted carry is fine. My opponents in this issue would sell you exception to the infringements to the Second Amendment that "shall not be infringed."

    I (and I think we) live in a Constitutional Republic with legally limited enfranchisement. I do not believe in egalitarianism. Democracy is the rule of fools by fools. Who will be the 'organizer' will be the tyrant.

    If we can speak with principle then we will be a force adequate to the task. Grass Roots Gun Rights South Carolina is proof of that. The Real Nature of Politics (rmgo.com) is the method.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    Lammie wrote:
    By the way did you change your forum name from ccwtrainer to pointman? your post seems suspiciously so.
    ...posts seem suspiciously so. Fagin No. 1 has not posted again either.

    Anony Mouse will do as well as any nom de 'net. Which is to say 'a rose by any other name stinks as sweetly.' Get the point? Stevens Point? West Point? Walking point? Pencil point? Pointed head? Pointless.

    What does it say of a politician afraid to face his armed electorate? What does it say of an elector afraid to use his name or a 'businessman' fearful of the effect of his own politics?

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    What does it say of a politician afraid to face his armed electorate? What does it say of an elector afraid to use his name or a 'businessman' fearful of the effect of his own politics?
    It says he's smart enough to realize he is in the MINORITY and will be attacked by the MAJORITY.

    If I were an individual standing alone, I'd have no fear of reprisal. But when the LEFT can attack you/me throughour families (teachers all of a sudden having problems with your kids at school, etc) anonymity becomes a requirement.

    My children should not suffer do to my political views, so if any action I take could make their lives more difficult, then I must take it anonymously.

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