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Thread: Denied a CPL?

  1. #1
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    Anyone ever have the problem of the police department telling you that they simply don't have to issue a CPL, even if you show them all the RCWs stating that they do?

    And does anyone know of any court cases that resulted from that kind of behaviour by the police?

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    Did they simply tell you when you asked that they do not issue them or did they ask you any questions?
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    joeroket wrote:
    Did they simply tell you when you asked that they do not issue them or did they ask you any questions?
    Washington is a shall issue state for residents and the copsmust issue unless you fail the background check, etc. The cops are not allowed to say no before they check, it be against the law for them to do so.

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    Sort of. The RCW says the chief or sheriff shall issue a permit within 30 days after the filing of the application. Nothing says they have to give you the application to file. It is kind of a catch 22 the way I see it. I have never heard of one saying they won't issue unless the person applying does not live in the area under the authority of the issuing department.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    joeroket wrote:
    Sort of. The RCW says the chief or sheriff shall issue a permit within 30 days after the filing of the application. Nothing says they have to give you the application to file. It is kind of a catch 22 the way I see it. I have never heard of one saying they won't issue unless the person applying does not live in the area under the authority of the issuing department.
    Then they should so state and not just say "No, we won't issue one."

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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    joeroket wrote:
    Sort of. The RCW says the chief or sheriff shall issue a permit within 30 days after the filing of the application. Nothing says they have to give you the application to file. It is kind of a catch 22 the way I see it. I have never heard of one saying they won't issue unless the person applying does not live in the area under the authority of the issuing department.
    Then they should so state and not just say "No, we won't issue one."
    I agree. That is why I wanted to know if they asked him any questions. If they didn't ask then they have no idea where he lives.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    joeroket wrote:
    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    joeroket wrote:
    Sort of. The RCW says the chief or sheriff shall issue a permit within 30 days after the filing of the application. Nothing says they have to give you the application to file. It is kind of a catch 22 the way I see it. I have never heard of one saying they won't issue unless the person applying does not live in the area under the authority of the issuing department.
    Then they should so state and not just say "No, we won't issue one."
    I agree. That is why I wanted to know if they asked him any questions. If they didn't ask then they have no idea where he lives.
    Aaaah, now I see where you were going.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Gene Beasley's Avatar
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    If they did in fact flat refuse to provide the application with the thought that they can circumvent the spirit and letter of the law, it's not really a Catch-22. The application is a DOL form and available on their website.

    http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/firearms/faforms.html

    Interested in the answer too...

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    RCW 9.41.070

    (1) The chief of police of a municipality or the sheriff of a county shall within thirty days after the filing of an application of any person, issue a license to such person to carry a pistol concealed on his or her person within this state for five years from date of issue, for the purposes of protection or while engaged in business, sport, or while traveling. However, if the applicant does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or Washington state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, the issuing authority shall have up to sixty days after the filing of the application to issue a license. The issuing authority shall not refuse to accept completed applications for concealed pistol licenses during regular business hours.


    9.41.0975has the remedy. You would need to get an attorney and file for a writ of mandamus forcing them to comply.Once you win, they would be required to pay all your attorneys fees.


    RCW 9.41.0975
    Officials and agencies — Immunity, writ of mandamus.
    .

    .

    .

    (2) An application may be made to a court of competent jurisdiction for a writ of mandamus:

    (a) Directing an issuing agency to issue a concealed pistol license wrongfully refused;

    (b) Directing a law enforcement agency to approve an application to purchase wrongfully denied;

    (c) Directing that erroneous information resulting either in the wrongful refusal to issue a concealed pistol license or in the wrongful denial of a purchase application be corrected; or

    (d) Directing a law enforcement agency to approve a dealer's license wrongfully denied.

    The application for the writ may be made in the county in which the application for a concealed pistol license or to purchase a pistol was made, or in Thurston county, at the discretion of the petitioner. A court shall provide an expedited hearing for an application brought under this subsection (2) for a writ of mandamus. A person granted a writ of mandamus under this subsection (2) shall be awarded reasonable attorneys' fees and costs.





    IANAL

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    The issue they claim is I had a felony *arrest* with no conviction from when I was 14 years old, and they claim that is basis for denial, so I casually showed them the part of rcw 9.41.040 (3) that says that if there's no disposition I'm not barred from possession, and they reverted to they ol' 'it's our discretion,' 'we're not going to argue, blah blah.'
    It's been about 50 days since I submitted the application and fingerprints.

    I'll be serving them with a five page 'demand letter' quoting all the laws and court cases I can find. If that don't work I'll have to go through the Writ of Madamus, and that's gonna be a pain in the ass.

    Yakima Valley police departments are not known for their knowledge of or following the law. Police chiefs in just about all the Lower Valley towns have been implicated (and then cleared of course) in felonies in the past year.

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    cynicist wrote:
    The issue they claim is I had a felony *arrest* with no conviction from when I was 14 years old, and they claim that is basis for denial, so I casually showed them the part of rcw 9.41.040 (3) that says that if there's no disposition I'm not barred from possession, and they reverted to they ol' 'it's our discretion,' 'we're not going to argue, blah blah.'
    It's been about 50 days since I submitted the application and fingerprints.

    I'll be serving them with a five page 'demand letter' quoting all the laws and court cases I can find. If that don't work I'll have to go through the Writ of Madamus, and that's gonna be a pain in the ass.

    Yakima Valley police departments are not known for their knowledge of or following the law. Police chiefs in just about all the Lower Valley towns have been implicated (and then cleared of course) in felonies in the past year.
    You need to contact Randy Loun, the OC lawyer who's mission here is to educate PB departments about gun laws. FYI the cops are violating the law, they have no discretion in the matter.

    Loun & Tyner

    509-4th Street
    Suite 6
    Bremerton, WA 98337-1401
    (360) 377-7678


    rloun@hotmail.com


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    Thanks. I'm putting his number in my phone right now.

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    And I know the cops are violating it, I just wasn't entirely sure how to deal with it.
    I got a five page (so far) letter that points out to them all the laws they are breaking, and I'm spending most of today scouring the internet for more obscure case law I can throw at them.


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    cynicist wrote:
    And I know the cops are violating it, I just wasn't entirely sure how to deal with it.
    I got a five page (so far) letter that points out to them all the laws they are breaking, and I'm spending most of today scouring the internet for more obscure case law I can throw at them.
    Let Randy deal with it. He is an ex LEO that does not like cops that think they are above the law. He is also a gun guy and on our side and knows how to deal with PDs and cops who aren't so bright and arrogant.

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    Right Wing Wacko wrote:
    RCW 9.41.070

    (1) The chief of police of a municipality or the sheriff of a county shall within thirty days after the filing of an application of any person...... The issuing authority shall not refuse to accept completed applications for concealed pistol licenses during regular business hours.
    I agree with everything you said right wing, however the only thing lacking in the RCW is the requirement for them to issue the application as well.

    Anyway back to the OP, absolutely do not try and handle this one yourself. It is something that needs to be done by Randy, or another attorney of your choosing. Yakima is blatently wrong that it is a discretion and they need to be forced to issue it and be held accountable for violating the issuance RCW.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    It happened to me, but it was 1975. At the time the county sheriff did the permit issue, and denied me. They thought I was some kind of bad-ass.
    Soon after I moved to Spokane county, and they issued no problem.
    Thar weren't no internet then....



    cynicist wrote:
    Anyone ever have the problem of the police department telling you that they simply don't have to issue a CPL, even if you show them all the RCWs stating that they do?

    And does anyone know of any court cases that resulted from that kind of behaviour by the police?

  17. #17
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    I'll give him a call, but I'm still proceeding alone for the time being. I'm a criminal justice major, I read law books and look up case-law almost every day just for the hell of it and whatnot.
    I don't think I'll do the writ of mandamus myself, but I am prepared to. I looked up the laws regarding them (RCW 7.16) and case law from Washington and US Spreme Crts and Crts of Appeals, found out why various Writs have been denied to avoid those errors, and tracking down every 'lead' that I find in the law.

    It's actually the Sunnyside Police that are doing it. Yakima County is better known than Sunnyside.

    joeroket wrote:

    Anyway back to the OP, absolutely do not try and handle this one yourself. It is something that needs to be done by Randy, or another attorney of your choosing. Yakima is blatently wrong that it is a discretion and they need to be forced to issue it and be held accountable for violating the issuance RCW.

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    cynicist,

    Can you PM me the exact details of which department we're talking about? and exactly what happened? I think we may be able to get this fix by me having a conversation with them.

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    Lonnie Wilson wrote:
    cynicist,

    Can you PM me the exact details of which department we're talking about? and exactly what happened? I think we may be able to get this fix by me having a conversation with them.
    Lonnie,

    You should get yourself associated with a lawyer so you can bill for this stuff

    As far as I can tell RCW 9.41.0975 still applies, and attorneys fees would be due

  20. #20
    Regular Member John Hardin's Avatar
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    cynicist wrote:
    The issue they claim is I had a felony *arrest* with no conviction from when I was 14 years old, and they claim that is basis for denial, so I casually showed them the part of rcw 9.41.040 (3) that says that if there's no disposition I'm not barred from possession, and they reverted to they ol' 'it's our discretion,' 'we're not going to argue, blah blah.'
    Have you tried the sheriff's office rather than one of the PDs?

  21. #21
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    Now ther is a good and legal way to deal with thisJohn Hardin wrote:
    cynicist wrote:
    The issue they claim is I had a felony *arrest* with no conviction from when I was 14 years old, and they claim that is basis for denial, so I casually showed them the part of rcw 9.41.040 (3) that says that if there's no disposition I'm not barred from possession, and they reverted to they ol' 'it's our discretion,' 'we're not going to argue, blah blah.'
    Have you tried the sheriff's office rather than one of the PDs?
    Now there is a good and legal way to deal with this issue. Then you can use the CPL in your hand as more proof that they were in violation of the law.

  22. #22
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    You have to do it through the city if you live in one.

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    Lonnie Wilson wrote:
    cynicist,

    Can you PM me the exact details of which department we're talking about? and exactly what happened? I think we may be able to get this fix by me having a conversation with them.
    For some reason it won't let me PM you. If you could PM me I suppose I could respond to it, or phones if you prefer.

  24. #24
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    cynicist wrote:
    You have to do it through the city if you live in one.
    Not true. Even if you live in the city, you are still a county resisdent.






    RCW 9.41.070
    Concealed pistol license — Application — Fee — Renewal

    1) The chief of police of a municipality or the sheriff of a county shall within thirty days after the filing of an application of any person, issue a license to such person to carry a pistol concealed on his or her person within this state for five years from date of issue, for the purposes of protection or while engaged in business, sport, or while traveling. However, if the applicant does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or Washington state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, the issuing authority shall have up to sixty days after the filing of the application to issue a license. The issuing authority shall not refuse to accept completed applications for concealed pistol licenses during regular business hours.


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    Bear is right on the button. I never go to Everett PD for mine, even when my mom was working for them, because they only do it certain times and days and it is a royal pain in the ass to get someone to fingerprint there. The county has a dedicated office for permit applications and fingrtprinting.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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