oc vs cc technicalities

Bear 45/70 wrote:

Well, you can carry the 1911 with a round in the chamber and hammer down, as the firing pin will not reach the primer.

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Although my recollection was that the 1911, according to Browning, was safer cocked and locked than with the hammer on the pin. A drop will not unlock and fire the pistol but a drop can hit the hammer and pin combo and lead to a fire.

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gsx1138 wrote:

I've wondered these things as well. I have a supertuck that is comfortable as hell but I like having the grip on my pistol exposed. Mainly because I put grip tape on my pistol and sandpaper on the love handles hurts.

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Ok, this is to easy to pass up..........aaaah can you say diet and exercise?

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Bear 45/70 wrote:

gsx1138 wrote:

I've wondered these things as well. I have a supertuck that is comfortable as hell but I like having the grip on my pistol exposed. Mainly because I put grip tape on my pistol and sandpaper on the love handles hurts.

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Ok, this is to easy to pass up..........aaaah can you say diet and exercise?

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Yeah.....here's Mr. Jiggles talking... I saw how much BBQ you put away tonight, Grease Boy....:dude:

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heresolong wrote:

Bear 45/70 wrote:

Well, you can carry the 1911 with a round in the chamber and hammer down, as the firing pin will not reach the primer.

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Although my recollection was that the 1911, according to Browning, was safer cocked and locked than with the hammer on the pin. A drop will not unlock and fire the pistol but a drop can hit the hammer and pin combo and lead to a fire.

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Never ever heard that one. The 1911 firing pin is spring loaded to the rear and is not long enough to reach the primer, even with the hammer down. So what would the hammer postion have to do with what the firing pin does when the gun is dropped?

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I agree with Bear. The 1911 was designed to carry cocked and locked. I wouldnt carry it any other way as the response time to slide one in the chamber ( if you have both hands free ) would make you "to late the party". Always use a tool the way it was designed and feel comfortable in your weapon of choice.

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Triple Tap wrote:

I agree with Bear. The 1911 was designed to carry cocked and locked. I wouldnt carry it any other way as the response time to slide one in the chamber ( if you have both hands free ) would make you "to late the party". Always use a tool the way it was designed and feel comfortable in your weapon of choice.

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I have to take exception here. The 1911 has an inertia firing pin, therefore it is safe to carry with the hammer down on a live round. In this condition the firing pin does not contact the primer. When the 1911 is fired, the hammer strikes the firing pin imparting a forward motion to it. The motion of the hammer is stoped by the slide before the firing pin strikes the primer. The inertia of the firing pin keeps it moving with enough speed to detonate the primer when the firing pin contacts the primer. While it is theoreticly possible for the firing pin to obtain enough inertia to detonate the primer if the weapon is dropped, it is extreamly unlikely. A while back I read a mathematical analysis of this possibility, and the conclusion was that the weapon would need to be dropped from the roof of a three story building and land at an exact angle for this to happen. Also, this scenario could not happen with newer models that have the Series 80 firing pin block. In my opinion, this is the safest way to carry a 1911 style pistol because you are relying on the laws of physics to prevent an accidental discharge instead of a mechanical safety which can break. Additionally, it doesn't look as dangerous to the uninformed as one that is cocked and locked. If you need to use the weapon, you simply cock the hammer as you draw the weapon, just like you would with a single action revolver.

To be safe one should make sure that the firing pin in their paticular weapon is not too long. I have two 1911 style Llamas. One is a .380, and the other is a .32. According to the part numbers, the only difference between the two guns is the barrel, the recoil spring, and the magazine. The firing pin in the .380 is the proper length, but the one in the .32 needs to be shortened.

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How would one safely get the hammer down on a 1911 with a live round in the chamber to carry in that manner being that they do not have a decocker even if it would then be safe to carry in that manner.

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deepdiver wrote:

How would one safely get the hammer down on a 1911 with a live round in the chamber to carry in that manner being that they do not have a decocker even if it would then be safe to carry in that manner.

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I've seen several ways but the safest is to point the gun in a safe direction. Then grip the hammer between the thumb and index finger of your off hand. Move the hammer to the rear. Pull the trigger and lower the hammer. Works best with a Commander hammer (the looped one) but works with the spur hammer also. The reason for moving the hammer to the rear is to take the pressure off the sear and when you pull the trigger there is no sudden load on the hammer to fall and possibly slip out from between your thumb and index finger.

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Bear 45/70 wrote:

heresolong wrote:

Bear 45/70 wrote:

Well, you can carry the 1911 with a round in the chamber and hammer down, as the firing pin will not reach the primer.

Click to expand...

Although my recollection was that the 1911, according to Browning, was safer cocked and locked than with the hammer on the pin. A drop will not unlock and fire the pistol but a drop can hit the hammer and pin combo and lead to a fire.

Click to expand...

Never ever heard that one. The 1911 firing pin is spring loaded to the rear and is not long enough to reach the primer, even with the hammer down. So what would the hammer postion have to do with what the firing pin does when the gun is dropped?

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Well, theoretically, the hammer could be struck with enough force to hit the firing pin, which could then touch off the primer. In reality, you're much more likely to break the gun first, thanks to the wonders of modern engineering and things like firing pin safeties (which prevent just that sort of situation from happening by making sure the firing pin never moves at all unless the trigger is pulled).

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Bear 45/70 wrote:

deepdiver wrote:

How would one safely get the hammer down on a 1911 with a live round in the chamber to carry in that manner being that they do not have a decocker even if it would then be safe to carry in that manner.

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I've seen several ways but the safest is to point the gun in a safe direction. Then grip the hammer between the thumb and index finger of your off hand. Move the hammer to the rear. Pull the trigger and lower the hammer. Works best with a Commander hammer (the looped one) but works with the spur hammer also. The reason for moving the hammer to the rear is to take the pressure off the sear and when you pull the trigger there is no sudden load on the hammer to fall and possibly slip out from between your thumb and index finger.

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Good info on how to manually decock a 1911. Unfortunately I asked the question badly.

I should have asked, besides manually decocking by pulling the trigger on a loaded firearm and running the inherent risk of having the hammer slip out of your grip and discharge the firearm, how would one safely lower the hammer on the a condition 1 1911 model pistol? Or let me ask it another way. How would one consistently and daily lower the hammer on a chambered 1911 while pointing it at your brand new, uninsured, $6500.00, 60" flat panel Pioneer Elite flat panel plasma television?

I think the answer is there is no way which is why people carry 1911s in condition 1 rather than condition 2 because there will always be an inherent risk of discharge in pulling the trigger and manually lowering the hammer on any loaded firearm without a decocking lever. Not a big deal if at the range with the firearm pointed downrange or out in the country with it pointed away from you and down towards soft ground or a safe backstop, etc, but for those of us who live in an urban/suburban area, or must load/unload in an urban/suburban area or who are loading up in the morning inside our homes it is not a safe or wise procedure to follow regularly.

I think all of that makes the question of whether it is safe to carry a 1911 condition 2, even if a series 80 with a firing pin block, moot.

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Gee, I thought I already stated that the 1911 was able to have the hammer down with one in the pipe for carry. The part you are missing on the hammer down carry of a 1911 is the hammer isn't really designed to be cock as you draw the weapon. If it was it would be more like an old Colt SAA hammerand not a little stubby thing that it is. Missing getting the hammer coocked as you draw will just get you dead. You are real late to the party on the hammer downcontention. As to your firing pin problem in your Llamas. Buy American, I've never seen or heard of an American made 1911 havindg an over length firing pin.

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You want a challenge, try the wife's Detonics. My fat fingers have a real hard time gripping the little hammer spur and is the main reason I dont carry one. The wife has no problem however.

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Bear 45/70 wrote:

You want a challenge, try the wife's Detonics. My fat fingers have a real hard time gripping the little hammer spur and is the main reason I dont carry one. The wife has no problem however.

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It looks like a nice little weapon. Will a standard Colt hammer fit it. If so, you might try replacing the hammer. It might work better for you.

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1. Not a smart way to carry. The OC/CC would depend on if any of the pistol is visible.

2. Again depends on if any part of the pistol is visible.

3. Tuck your shirt under the holster.

4. The signs have no legal authority. If I must go into store that is posted the I conceal.

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joeroket wrote:

1. Not a smart way to carry. The OC/CC would depend on if any of the pistol is visible.

2. Again depends on if any part of the pistol is visible.

3. Tuck your shirt under the holster.

4. The signs have no legal authority. If I must go into store that is posted the I conceal.

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Sorry, in Tennessee the "proper signage" does have legal authority. Carry inside there is a Felony.

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Not so. The hammer is resting on the slide, hence it can't move. So the only thing that would move the firing pin would be to drop the gun square on the muzzle with enough velocity to make the light firing pin generate enough force to make it compress the spring and still have enough energy to stike the primer with enough force to make the primer go off. I have never heard of this happening, but in any case the bullet would go straight into the ground. Why?, because any angle other than straight down would not have enough force to move the pin against the primer. You really should speculate about a weapon you know nothing about.

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