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Thread: shootin rattlesnakes?

  1. #1
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    my glock holster has been chewed up tomarrow ill see if blackhawk will replace it

    so ive been carrying my revolver in the mountains

    ive ran into about 15 snakes in the past 3 days, not any rattlers yet, but i expect so soon....

    do you guys know the laws on killin rattlers? i think you can only kill them if theyre threatening your life... right?


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    okay i found a law, it states that "it is illegal to kill any snake" (without a special permit by the dnr) HOWEVER, if it is threatening livestock, or humans (vipers [well any venomous snake, but utah really only has vipers]) then you may kill it. i would leave them alone... i am against killing animals, unless its for food. (ive never killed an animal before, and i never plan on it) but if it was my life or another living creature (or human) ill choose my life, lol.

    but if i was in an area that is visited by lots of little ones, campers, etc. and i ran into an aggressiverattler,i would probably kill it, for my own (and other peoples) safety.

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    Since were on the topic: i believe in Wyoming it is customary to shoot Coyotes and wolves on sight (Correct me if im wrong), does that apply here?

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    coyotes = yes

    wolves = endangered here



    you get paid for killin coyotes out here, 20-25$ (cant remember which) for the ears, just cut em off, i cant remember where you take em, but 25$ is 25$!

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    b1ack5mith wrote:
    ..ears, just cut em off, i cant remember where you take em, but 25$ is 25$!
    http://wolfsaga.blogspot.com/2006/10...ad-coyote.html

    thanks for the info! Im gonna get me a Coyote.

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    b1ack5mith wrote:
    okay i found a law, it states that "it is illegal to kill any snake" (without a special permit by the dnr) HOWEVER, if it is threatening livestock, or humans (vipers [well any venomous snake, but utah really only has vipers]) then you may kill it. i would leave them alone... i am against killing animals, unless its for food. (ive never killed an animal before, and i never plan on it) but if it was my life or another living creature (or human) ill choose my life, lol.

    but if i was in an area that is visited by lots of little ones, campers, etc. and i ran into an aggressiverattler,i would probably kill it, for my own (and other peoples) safety.
    Self defense will always trump any other law about killing of animals. And I'd think you're unlikely to have much question about killing a rattler unless you were doing so with a scoped rifle or someone saw you do it and could swear the snake posed no danger to you.

    Rattlers are generally very eager to avoid people so one in a developed camp ground would be rare. It also turns out that cows are too stupid to avoid rattlers and just step on them. So rattlers are generally smart enough to avoid areas with heavy livestock grazing.

    Short of an urbanized area or improved campground I'd generally oppose killing rattlers as they do play an important part of the eco-system. And they carry far less disease than do the mice and other vermin they eat.

    That said, in 30+ years living in Utah I've NEVER been in a situation where a gun would have been the proper tool for killing one. We did dispatch a couple near the house with a spade just after the area was developed and before the snakes learned their neighborhood had gone to pot (from their perspective). But if I were to be hiking in an area where I expected snakes I'd start with good, heavy boots, watch where I put my hands and feet, and keep the first round or two in my firearm loaded with snake/bird shot. I'd hate to shoot for a snake and have a bullet ricochet either before or after missing the intended target. If I needed to shoot a larger animal instead of a snake, a couple shots of dust on the nose before the real lead hits him probably won't hurt.

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    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    I saw Travis today, and he did have shot shells in his .357 magnum. And a basket full of rainbow trout. :celebrate
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    b1ack5mith wrote:
    okay i found a law, it states that "it is illegal to kill any snake" (without a special permit by the dnr) HOWEVER, if it is threatening livestock, or humans (vipers [well any venomous snake, but utah really only has vipers]) then you may kill it. i would leave them alone... i am against killing animals, unless its for food. (ive never killed an animal before, and i never plan on it) but if it was my life or another living creature (or human) ill choose my life, lol.

    but if i was in an area that is visited by lots of little ones, campers, etc. and i ran into an aggressiverattler,i would probably kill it, for my own (and other peoples) safety.
    I am curious where did you find the law due you have a code #
    :celebrate

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    I don't know the exact section, but you need to look in the game laws, NOT the criminal code.



    They are pretty serious about it. Every month in my hunter ed class we have a UDWR officer give a short talk, and they ALWAYS mention that it's illegal to kill snakes without following the rules.





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    Utah code has several references. Section 23-20-4 lists penalties for the wanton destruction of protected wildlife. Section 23-13-2(39) lists protected wildlife as:

    (49) "Wildlife" means:
    (a) crustaceans, including brine shrimp and crayfish;
    (b) mollusks; and
    (c) vertebrate animals living in nature, except feral animals.


    as per section 23-13-2(35)(b)
    "Protected wildlife" does not include coyote, field mouse, gopher, ground squirrel, jack rabbit, muskrat, and raccoon.


    So as far as (49)(c) goes, if it has a backbone it is protected except for the few animals listed in (35)(b).

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    We need to turn this into a dog shooting thread.

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    althor wrote:
    ....as per section 23-13-2(35)(b) "Protected wildlife" does not include coyote....
    ya, i e-mail the Division of Wildlife Resources: it is most certainly legal to shoot and kill a coyote 'on-sight'. no permit required. However, it seems as though Utah county does not offer a bounty on said creatures. Tooele county and cache county do. $20-$25 per set of ears, i think it is.

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    DON'T SHOOT RATTLERS UNLESS YOU HAVE TOO!

    ”The great body of our citizens shoot less as times goes on. We should encourage rifle practice among schoolboys, and indeed among all classes, as well as in the military services by every means in our power. Thus, and not otherwise, may we be able to assist in preserving peace in the world… The first step – in the direction of preparation to avert war if possible, and to be fit for war if it should come – is to teach men to shoot!”
    ~President Theodore Roosevelt

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    yo101jimmy wrote:
    DON'T SHOOT RATTLERS UNLESS YOU HAVE TOO!
    Agreed, what is it with the eagerness of some to shot snakes? These animals are under enough pressure.

    As gun owners we should be responsible....



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    yeah, my friends kill em here, take em to tooele and sell em lol! we DO have a certain season where we do have a bounty here in utah county tho



    and yep! kev saw me carryin my single six a couple weeks ago i have yet to test this ammo

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    I am all for hunting....but testing your ammo? *sigh*

    Crap like that under minds our argument that gun owners/hunters help with conservation and actually value wildlife.

    :X






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    DonTreadOnMe wrote:
    I am all for hunting....but testing your ammo? *sigh*

    Crap like that under minds our argument that gun owners/hunters help with conservation and actually value wildlife.

    :X




    It looks to me like you completely misread his post. No where does he say that he is testing ammo on coyotes.

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    DonTreadOnMe wrote:
    I am all for hunting....but testing your ammo?Â* *sigh*Â*

    Crap like that under minds our argument that gun owners/hunters help with conservation and actually value wildlife.

    :X




    I'm all for having a reason before you shoot an animal, but what better reason is self-defense? I'm not a skilled snake-handler, so if I come across a poisonous snake I'd like to have a round or two of snake shot ready to go. Doesn't mean I'll use it, but I don't particularly want to take any risks either.

    What's your problem anyway? Nobody here is talking about killing animals for fun. Having you posting this nonsense undermines (get it, "under mine"? Make sense now?) valid self-defense.

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    marshaul wrote:
    DonTreadOnMe wrote:
    I am all for hunting....but testing your ammo? *sigh*

    Crap like that under minds our argument that gun owners/hunters help with conservation and actually value wildlife.

    :X




    I'm all for having a reason before you shoot an animal, but what better reason is self-defense? I'm not a skilled snake-handler, so if I come across a poisonous snake I'd like to have a round or two of snake shot ready to go. Doesn't mean I'll use it, but I don't particularly want to take any risks either.

    What's your problem anyway? Nobody here is talking about killing animals for fun. Having you posting this nonsense undermines (get it, "under mine"? Make sense now?) valid self-defense.
    +1 I was camping with my dad in one of the canyons one time. On our way back to camp, we cam across a huge rattler. He was curled up next to a rock and was blocking our path back to camp. It was a transverse trail with dropoff on one side and steep incline on the north side. There was no way around this snake, and he was way pissed off. I had my 45 on me and was debating wether to "terminate the threat", but my dad laughed at me and looked around and found a fairly long branch a little ways back on the trail. When we got back to the snake, he started rattling again and gettin all riled up, so my dad slowly pushed at the snake with the stick. After about 30 seconds of gettin harassed by the stick, the snake had his fill and slithered off the trail and down the mountain.

    Moral of this story. I don't think either of us were wrong or right on how the situation was handled. His way, the snake lived, my way, and the snake is toast. My dad simply had a quicker thought process than I did and obviously more sensible way to handle it. Had I been alone, and the fear I felt in the moment, I would have just shot the snake.

    This just goes to show that different people handle situations different ways, and nobody is always correct or wrong. The situation and the person and their response to said situation determines everything. I learned a lesson that day though. I no longer think about using deadly force against a rattler when I run into them now. I just look around for a big long stick if I can't go around them.

    Kevin

    If it isn't broke, then don't fix it, or you'll fix it until it's broke.

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    marshaul wrote:
    DonTreadOnMe wrote:
    I am all for hunting....but testing your ammo? *sigh*

    Crap like that under minds our argument that gun owners/hunters help with conservation and actually value wildlife.

    :X




    I'm all for having a reason before you shoot an animal, but what better reason is self-defense? I'm not a skilled snake-handler, so if I come across a poisonous snake I'd like to have a round or two of snake shot ready to go. Doesn't mean I'll use it, but I don't particularly want to take any risks either.

    What's your problem anyway? Nobody here is talking about killing animals for fun. Having you posting this nonsense undermines (get it, "under mine"? Make sense now?) valid self-defense.
    If you do a little research on the issue you will find that almost all bites come from people choosing to interact with them...ie handling, trying to kill...extra. There for, even more than someone that is experinced with handling a venomous species...the best thing to do is leave the animal alone.

    I myself have spent 1000s of hours working with venomous snakes in the field and in captivity. I have yet to have a wild venomous snake pose a threat to me when I did not instigate contact.

    Without trying to construct some unlikely scenario in which one is somehow at risk from a snake...and some how unable to move way...but able to draw ones gim and shoot the snake that must be very close...ready to bite...if one moves away, but not bothered by you drawing your gun how is it exactly self-defence?

    I am not trying to pick on or attack you, but hunting is one thing...but randomly shooting animals because one simply does not like them or thinks 'its only a snake', or its a venomous snake....only good one is a dead one.....is a mentality that should be questioned and called out. These animals are under a great deal of pressue as it is. I can visuilize very few instances that shooting a snake would really be needed, if you find ourself in one of those unlikly situations....great. I am mearly questioning how often that is really the case. Sadly, because many people have a great fear of snakes they determan its existance as something that consitues shooting it on the grounds of self-defence.

    I hope you can take my comments for what they are...an apeal for you to consider the issue further, not an attack.












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    LovesHisXD45 wrote:
    marshaul wrote:
    DonTreadOnMe wrote:
    I am all for hunting....but testing your ammo? *sigh*

    Crap like that under minds our argument that gun owners/hunters help with conservation and actually value wildlife.

    :X




    I'm all for having a reason before you shoot an animal, but what better reason is self-defense? I'm not a skilled snake-handler, so if I come across a poisonous snake I'd like to have a round or two of snake shot ready to go. Doesn't mean I'll use it, but I don't particularly want to take any risks either.

    What's your problem anyway? Nobody here is talking about killing animals for fun. Having you posting this nonsense undermines (get it, "under mine"? Make sense now?) valid self-defense.
    +1 I was camping with my dad in one of the canyons one time. On our way back to camp, we cam across a huge rattler. He was curled up next to a rock and was blocking our path back to camp. It was a transverse trail with dropoff on one side and steep incline on the north side. There was no way around this snake, and he was way pissed off. I had my 45 on me and was debating wether to "terminate the threat", but my dad laughed at me and looked around and found a fairly long branch a little ways back on the trail. When we got back to the snake, he started rattling again and gettin all riled up, so my dad slowly pushed at the snake with the stick. After about 30 seconds of gettin harassed by the stick, the snake had his fill and slithered off the trail and down the mountain.

    Moral of this story. I don't think either of us were wrong or right on how the situation was handled. His way, the snake lived, my way, and the snake is toast. My dad simply had a quicker thought process than I did and obviously more sensible way to handle it. Had I been alone, and the fear I felt in the moment, I would have just shot the snake.

    This just goes to show that different people handle situations different ways, and nobody is always correct or wrong. The situation and the person and their response to said situation determines everything. I learned a lesson that day though. I no longer think about using deadly force against a rattler when I run into them now. I just look around for a big long stick if I can't go around them.

    Kevin
    Wise and thoughtful man! ...wise lesson, and not just for dealing with snakes.





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    DonTreadOnMe wrote:
    LovesHisXD45 wrote:
    marshaul wrote:
    DonTreadOnMe wrote:
    I am all for hunting....but testing your ammo? *sigh*

    Crap like that under minds our argument that gun owners/hunters help with conservation and actually value wildlife.

    :X




    I'm all for having a reason before you shoot an animal, but what better reason is self-defense? I'm not a skilled snake-handler, so if I come across a poisonous snake I'd like to have a round or two of snake shot ready to go. Doesn't mean I'll use it, but I don't particularly want to take any risks either.

    What's your problem anyway? Nobody here is talking about killing animals for fun. Having you posting this nonsense undermines (get it, "under mine"? Make sense now?) valid self-defense.
    +1 I was camping with my dad in one of the canyons one time. On our way back to camp, we cam across a huge rattler. He was curled up next to a rock and was blocking our path back to camp. It was a transverse trail with dropoff on one side and steep incline on the north side. There was no way around this snake, and he was way pissed off. I had my 45 on me and was debating wether to "terminate the threat", but my dad laughed at me and looked around and found a fairly long branch a little ways back on the trail. When we got back to the snake, he started rattling again and gettin all riled up, so my dad slowly pushed at the snake with the stick. After about 30 seconds of gettin harassed by the stick, the snake had his fill and slithered off the trail and down the mountain.

    Moral of this story. I don't think either of us were wrong or right on how the situation was handled. His way, the snake lived, my way, and the snake is toast. My dad simply had a quicker thought process than I did and obviously more sensible way to handle it. Had I been alone, and the fear I felt in the moment, I would have just shot the snake.

    This just goes to show that different people handle situations different ways, and nobody is always correct or wrong. The situation and the person and their response to said situation determines everything. I learned a lesson that day though. I no longer think about using deadly force against a rattler when I run into them now. I just look around for a big long stick if I can't go around them.

    Kevin
    Wise and thoughtful man! ...wise lesson, and not just for dealing with snakes.
    So now i have to carry my gun AND a big stick? Aww maaan.. 'Disturbing The Peace', here i come.

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    Posted twice, sry..

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    ProtectedBy9mm wrote:
    DonTreadOnMe wrote:
    LovesHisXD45 wrote:
    marshaul wrote:
    DonTreadOnMe wrote:
    I am all for hunting....but testing your ammo? *sigh*

    Crap like that under minds our argument that gun owners/hunters help with conservation and actually value wildlife.

    :X




    I'm all for having a reason before you shoot an animal, but what better reason is self-defense? I'm not a skilled snake-handler, so if I come across a poisonous snake I'd like to have a round or two of snake shot ready to go. Doesn't mean I'll use it, but I don't particularly want to take any risks either.

    What's your problem anyway? Nobody here is talking about killing animals for fun. Having you posting this nonsense undermines (get it, "under mine"? Make sense now?) valid self-defense.
    +1 I was camping with my dad in one of the canyons one time. On our way back to camp, we cam across a huge rattler. He was curled up next to a rock and was blocking our path back to camp. It was a transverse trail with dropoff on one side and steep incline on the north side. There was no way around this snake, and he was way pissed off. I had my 45 on me and was debating wether to "terminate the threat", but my dad laughed at me and looked around and found a fairly long branch a little ways back on the trail. When we got back to the snake, he started rattling again and gettin all riled up, so my dad slowly pushed at the snake with the stick. After about 30 seconds of gettin harassed by the stick, the snake had his fill and slithered off the trail and down the mountain.

    Moral of this story. I don't think either of us were wrong or right on how the situation was handled. His way, the snake lived, my way, and the snake is toast. My dad simply had a quicker thought process than I did and obviously more sensible way to handle it. Had I been alone, and the fear I felt in the moment, I would have just shot the snake.

    This just goes to show that different people handle situations different ways, and nobody is always correct or wrong. The situation and the person and their response to said situation determines everything. I learned a lesson that day though. I no longer think about using deadly force against a rattler when I run into them now. I just look around for a big long stick if I can't go around them.

    Kevin
    Wise and thoughtful man! ...wise lesson, and not just for dealing with snakes.
    So now i have to carry my gun AND a big stick? Aww maaan.. 'Disturbing The Peace', here i come.
    Ok, now that is funny! But, humor aside... Look at LoveshisXD45's father story. I for one would settle for adding his fathers sensible, thoughtful and wise mentality to what one should carry with oneself.

    Most of the time, simply walking around the animal is all that is needed.











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    I went on a walk about exactly a week ago just before sundown. I was visiting family out in the Ranches. On my way back I saw a rattler about 18" long on the sidewalk. This was right in the middle of a subdivision, although it was right next to a large drainage area with lots of weeds.

    It was dusk and the snake was probably warming itself on the concrete.I'm really glad that I even saw the snake and I had no idea what kind of snake it was at first. That would have been bad if I had stepped on it, but it moved quickly enought that I probably would not have stepped on it even if I didn't know it was there. As I got closer it moved across the ground between the sidewalk and the road, and then I stopped to see what type of snake it was, and it went down in the gutter and then stopped on the pavement. Once it got in the gutter I was able to see that it was a rattler.

    I mentioned it to someone on the Ranches Home Owners Association and have not heard much since, but I think that the HOA will contract for snake pest control for that particular drainage area, given the close proximity to many small children who live close by and other children who play in that drainage area. He said the last time he'd heard of rattlers spotted in the Ranches was about seven years ago.

    If you leave them alone they will try to get away from you. If you surprise one and it has no way of escape, well, I think you will get bit before you can draw a gun.


    Edit: The snake never made that rattle sound. It was quiet.






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