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Thread: Trouble at the Fair

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    My wife, daughter, and I all went to the fair on Saturday, thought it would be fun. We saw the sights and met Jesse James and all that stuff.We got thereround about noonish, and at about 4:30, four state police and one extremely obese rent-a-cop surround my family and i.The first officer to speak to mewas about 6'3 ish weighed maybe 160. very tall and lanky white guy. Said to me, "why you walkin' round here packin heat?" Whatin the world is that about? I was dressed in a pair of levi'scarpenter jeans and at-shirt. nothing about me or my dress was threatening, or "thuggish" as his language implied. I was mostly at a loss for words, so he asked again,my response was "Officer,I carry my handgun for the same reason you do, safety and it is my right." Another officer said, "well if it ain't concealed boy, you're breaking the law." We all know better, I respectfully told the officer that I excersize my right to open carry, and withno signage stating i can't,I was in the right. his natural reply "well you're disturbing the peace with that thing on your hip, i should just lock you up right now." I had been nice up to this point, but it was hot outside, I was with my family and started to get agitated. "well officer, if you 'd like to explainto your supervisor why you arrested a soldier in the US Army forlegally carrying a handgun, then i'll be more than happy to go along with you." Around this time, i was guided to a wall, hands and legs spread and an officer approached me from the rear to disarm me. OK. He then told me i could turn around after a brief (very poorly done) pat down. The officer then attempted to unload my pistol (bare bones 1911) after about 2 minutesof attempting to pull the slide back, he dropped the mag and kept pulling on the slide. I told him that he had to flip the slide safety and he looked at me like i speak chinese. i pointed at it and said "push that switch down" he still couldnt figure it out.After about 5 minutes he figured it out, and i got a lecture about carrying in public, and that "cocked and locked" is extremely unsafe practice. (safest way to carry a 1911 except unloaded) Another officer drove up, he was older and had been in the dept alot longer than these guys, drove me to my car appologizing the whole way about "ignorant officers making up rules as they go" So it was a very interesting day. I was a little hacked off, but the wife was just pissed.

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    Which county were you in?I would find out which post they were from and give them a call... I'm sure the post commander would like to hear about his officers making up the law as they go along. You may have broken part of his ego but not the law.

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    We were at the KY state fair in Louisville. So i have no idea where they were from.

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    Thats Jefferson County

    They were probably from Post 4.

    Post Commander: Captain William J. Ward

    Phone# 270-766-5078

    I would place a call and see what Capt. Ward has to say.

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    thank you very much, i appreciate the help, i'll be placing a call to the CPT shortly

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    And post the results please...

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    Bare Bones 1911? He was just mad cause yours was bigger than his...he he... Hey zero could you imagine that leo's reaction had you been carryingthe judge?

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    janda1218 wrote:
    Another officer drove up, he was older and had been in the dept alot longer than these guys, drove me to my car appologizing the whole way about "ignorant officers making up rules as they go" So it was a very interesting day. I was a little hacked off, but the wife was just pissed.
    were you asked to leave or were you just ready to go?

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    LOLRIA... He would have went from packin' heat to slingin' a cannon!

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    He called you boy? You have a wife and a daughter and you're reduced to boy?

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    yes he called me boy. My wife and daughter were with me, and when asked for ID i gave him my military ID, and still i was "boy" no respect was given to me at all. With a little hind sight i realize i should have remembered names. :X

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    janda, someone at the KSP Post had to have assigned them there or it was a detail and they had to sign up for it. If you call they should know who was assigned. Sorry if I seem persistent, that just makes me very steamed!!

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    zer0cool wrote:
    LOLRIA... He would have went from packin' heat to slingin' a cannon!
    ha ha I'm gonna start oc'ing my carbine just to get some looks, ha ha jk I don't think that would do anything but hurt the oc cause in nky, I know even I would be nervous if I saw someone with a rifle strapped to their back

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    You're only nervous because you don't see it all the time. We just need a few brave souls to pioneer the movement. Idea for our next OC picnic?

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    well you're disturbing the peace with that thing on your hip, i should just lock you up right now.
    And there it is again folks, "disturbing the peace". If it's not in the KRS, what law is being broken here? Why are these police officers not being advised on OC?


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    N00blet45 wrote:
    He called you boy? You have a wife and a daughter and you're reduced to boy?
    A disrespectful & unprofessional remark towards someone who hasn't broken any laws.


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    The only one disturbing the peace was him, no one said a thing till he started throwing a hissy fit. But thats IMO.

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    janda1218 wrote:
    yes he called me boy. My wife and daughter were with me, and when asked for ID i gave him my military ID, and still i was "boy" no respect was given to me at all. With a little hind sight i realize i should have remembered names. :X
    This situation is why I advocate the use of a Flip Video camera when OCing. Be careful how you display the camera towards LEOs. No quick movements, of course. Although it looks about as big as a typical mobile phone, I would not "point" the camera at them, rather lay it flat in your hand when turned on, and out to your side at first, until they recognize it as a camera. Then you should be able to put it out in front of you.

    Alternatively, you can wear it around your neck with the included strap. The new flip cams are ultra small, so this should not be too much of an issue. Perhaps drop the camera in your front shirt pocket. All that needs to be done to turn it on is a switch on the side, and you'll hear a sound that it has turned on.

    If you OC, the Flip video camera should be accessible enough to turn it on when you are being approached. When questioned about the need for the camera, I would just say, "I'm recording for my own protection, if the need arises." or "I post videos to OpenCarry.org for all law enforcement encounters when I'm open carrying."

    These video cameras are cheap, and easy to use. They may be a great asset when the need arises.

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    zer0cool wrote:
    The only one disturbing the peace was him, no one said a thing till he started throwing a hissy fit. But thats IMO.
    I share your opinion, as do many here.

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    IMHO, it's best NOT to argue with police officers. It generally just makes them angry, and they'll end up treating you in a way you'd prefer they didn't. Unfortunately, most LEOs don't appreciate citizens explaining their rights to them. More importantly, arguing with LEOs is irrelevant. I realize this is easier said than done.

    I would assume most OC encounters with LEO are similar in nature, and follow a process that officers are taught. Remember this line:

    1) "Officer, am I being detained, or am I free to go?"

    I've learned this line can "generally" be used as a response to irrelevant questions like:

    "Why you walkin' round here packin heat?"

    , if you are approached by law enforcement. This question establishes whether or not you are being detained on the spot (you cannot leave), or if you are free to walk away. If you continue to talk to the officer after that question is answered, it is considered to be "casual conversation".

    See "Busted - The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters", available on youtube, and on http://www.flexyourrights.org/busted, for more information on police encounters.

    I will post this video in a separate thread.

    - Statesman

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    This post should not be construed to be legal advice, and is given for informational purposes only. Please check with an attorney before using any information given.


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    As a former cop... One cannot disturb the 'peace' of a LEO. If there is no complainant... there is no crime. 'Boy?"... heh... Whutta hump. 'Anybody dunno how a 1911 operates is a moron. The only possible question would be OC in a 'public gathering'... but that varies from place to place. KSP yet? I can understand the rent-a-cop... but KSP should be well versed on OC in KY by now. Maybe they're just stuck on stupid. 'Hope you made that phone call. I'd be makin' one to a lawyer if I were you as well.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    One cannot disturb the 'peace' of a LEO.
    100% Correct! If the sight of a gun "disturbs the peace" of a LEO then they're in the wrong business.

    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    The only possible question would be OC in a 'public gathering'
    Public gathering is ok in KY as long as its not a "gathering" or "meeting" of a governing body. He was well within his rightsbut he wasntin the "comfort zone" of a badged ego. I work with and around LEOs all the time and i doubt any would hassle you if you were OCing. Unless you were OCing with it sticking out of the top of the front of your pants with no holster and your looney toon boxers hanging out.OR if your idea OCing is waving with it like the Queen of England does with her glove.

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    zer0cool wrote:
    Unless you were OCing with it sticking out of the top of the front of your pants with no holster and your looney toon boxers hanging out.
    If you are still wearing Looney Tunes boxers, you deserve to be stopped and questioned.

    OR if your idea OCing is waving with it like the Queen of England does with her glove.
    That would be a brandishing charge, correct?

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    If I remember correctly, we don't have any thing regarding "brandishing" unless it's in reference to a weapon on school property in a vehicle. You canhave it in a vehicle on school property but KRS states you cant "brandish" it.i.e. Dropping the kids off at school. But I believe (from what I remember) if you started pointing or waving the weapon around and nothing is transpiring for you to apply justifiable deadly force, that is wanton endangerment.

    NOTE: The KRS statute that I'm referencing is under CCDW.

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    Can anyone confirm this? I've read quite a few statutes on CC, and the use of deadly force, but nothing about brandishing yet. Maybe I should check my CCDW manual.

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