Has anyone disarmed you?

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The only people who've disarmed me were wearing uniforms and badges and breaking the law and their oath of office while doing so.

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SkipCoryell wrote:

Please assume it's by a nonLEO.

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Fail. You can't trust people to rely on an unstated assumption. You already have 3 "Yes" votes. I bet they were all disarmed by LEOS.

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N00blet45 wrote:

Bebop wrote:

If they were to ask again tell them I will not resist you taking the gun but I again object toyour illegal secure of the firearm.

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I'm not going to tell them what my next course of action will be. If Johnny Law reaches for my pistol I'm going to treat it as I would some crazy person going for my gun. It's not like I'm going to draw on him but I'm not just going to let him take my gun.

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So what would you do exactly? I would say that anything other than compliance is a fast-track to getting slapped with resisting arrest or some other charge, or possible seriously injured or even killed. Comply, keep your mouth shut, legal action. Thats your best and safest path.

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DopaVash wrote:

N00blet45 wrote:

Bebop wrote:

If they were to ask again tell them I will not resist you taking the gun but I again object toyour illegal secure of the firearm.

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I'm not going to tell them what my next course of action will be. If Johnny Law reaches for my pistol I'm going to treat it as I would some crazy person going for my gun. It's not like I'm going to draw on him but I'm not just going to let him take my gun.

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So what would you do exactly? I would say that anything other than compliance is a fast-track to getting slapped with resisting arrest or some other charge, or possible seriously injured or even killed. Comply, keep your mouth shut, legal action. Thats your best and safest path.

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I agree, DV. Sometimes the only thing they understand is when you get in their pocket.

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DenWin wrote:

I'm of the opinion that if you have the option to OC, do it.  My military experience always says make your self look like a hard target, not a soft target, and the harder the better.  But that's just my two cents.

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I'm glad to hear someone with military experience followed the same thought process that I did.

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Double post!

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I don't know what I'd do. The situation would likely dictate my course of action. However I would not tell the officer "I'm not going to resist."

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When it comes to someone trying to disarm you, you should use standard self-defense techniques, the first of which includes basic common sense. First, here in Arizona, a law enforcement officer does have the right to temporarily disarm you during a detention or arrest. If you are stopped by a police officer either while driving, on foot, or otherwise, you are actually under arrest. That doesn't mean you are going to jail but by law you are being detained and you are not free to go. The officer must have probable cause to detain you and they do have the right to disarm you while you are detained. I have seen several posts about refusing to hand over your gun to a police officer. I don't recommend this. There are plenty of crooked and corrupt cops out there on the street who would love an excuse to kill someone and they know that they will get away with it. It is better to do what the cop says, keep your mouth shut, take mental notes, and as soon as you are free to go or are already booked depending on the outcome, write everything down, and call a lawyer if needed. Resisting a cop on the street will get you nowhere and if you have a gun that you don't turn over, you could easily be killed. Keep your mouth shut, do what you are told, and if the cop is in the wrong, then when you are safely away from the situation, get a lawyer and take legal action. You are much better off fighting the cop in a courtroom with an attorney than arguing on the side of the road. While some cops are good, don't trust them all. Some may be criminals themselves, take bribes, and are not mentally sound. If you are in fear for your life from a cop, there are things you can do. If they are trying to pull you over or otherwise stop you and something seems fishy, call 911 from your cell phone and do not stop. If it is legitimate, they will call backup and if you are dealing with ten cops instead of just one, then the one bad cop will probably not do you wrong in front of the other good cops. You can always defend your actions in court with an attorney if need be.

As to non-LEOs trying to disarm you, use standard self-defense techniques. You should already be aware of your surroundings in the first place. If they make a reach for it or touch the holster or gun, quickly rotate so that the gun is out of their reach. Physically push their hands and body away if necessary and verbally order them to stop and ask them what they are doing. I wouldn't draw yet because if they are close enough to reach the gun, they are close enough to knock it out of your hand. Security guards do not have the right to disarm you in such a manner. They can tell you that firearms are prohibited on the property and ask you to leave. If you refuse to leave or get belligerant toward them, they can just as an LEO or a citizen disarm you for everyone's safety because you have already broken the rules and refused their requests to leave or disarm. They cannot just simply run up to you and grab it away. If the person is still aggressively trying to grab your gun, use as much physical force as necessary to get them away. If you have a semi-automatic, I would release the magazine catch. Some guns have a safety where it won't fire with one in the chamber if the magazine isn't present. Other guns will still fire but you now have one bullet to worry about if they get it away from you instead of 10+. If they are this aggressive, it may be advisable to draw and fire that one round into the person if possible. I carry a switchblade on me as a backup. If I am on the ground aggressively struggling to keep my firearm from getting taken away and I feel like I am losing the battle, I will be reaching for the knife because as soon as they get the gun away, before they even have a chance to fire it, they will have a knife in their throat. Everyone has their own strategy so use what works for you. A gun is easier to grab away than a knife. I would release the magazine and then grab the knife and start stabbing them. I could probably do this faster than they could pull it from the holster and fire that single round into me. Additionally, I stand a greater chance of surviving a single bullet than they do surviving a knife wound or many of them.

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Not that I recommend this, but most semi-auto's if you press the barrel into something they won't fire so you could always pull it hard into your body, but once again this is a last ditch effort which I would never do

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So have you tested this?:shock:

Skip

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RIAShooter wrote:

Not that I recommend this, but most semi-auto's if you press the barrel into something they won't fire so you could always pull it hard into your body, but once again this is a last ditch effort which I would never do

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I presume you are speaking of pressing the slide to the rear or out of battery.

Be aware that some Glocks and FiveSeveNs have been known to fire in this condition. Not only will you have the impeding exit of a deadly projectile but you risk a kB (kaBoom) - not fully supported cartridge igniting with potentional very bad results! http://tinyurl.com/6p6hny

There are a number of excellant weapon retention moves which I won't go into here now - I highly recommend that everyone learn and practice at least one or two.

Yata hey

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Yes, once - as an unfunny "joke" by a guy at a big outdoor party. I had taken the precaution of removing the magazine owing to the crowd density and the number of drunks about. I thought that some fool might try to grab it. Sure enough, the guy actually hosting the party got at it...

Fortunately, he was otherwise a responsible gun owner and he gave it back without incident. Just shows you how muchbooze impairs judgment.

-ljp

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Legba wrote:

Yes, once - as an unfunny "joke" by a guy at a big outdoor party. I had taken the precaution of removing the magazine owing to the crowd density and the number of drunks about. I thought that some fool might try to grab it. Sure enough, the guy actually hosting the party got at it...

Fortunately, he was otherwise a responsible gun owner and he gave it back without incident. Just shows you how muchbooze impairs judgment.

-ljp

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Two points, the 1st is a recommendation and the 2nd my opinion and attitude.

Invest in a quality, active retention holster. Work on moves to prevent/protect gun grabs. In a crowded, close environment, my elbow rests on top of my 1911 - it looks very casual. I never, repeat never, carry anything with my right hand. The most you will ever see in it is a knife, fork or spoon.

IMO or WMA (with my attitude) - I would have left and returned the next day to have at the least a very serious conversation with this host, leaving no doubt as to my outrage and concern over his actions. Point of fact, with some people he (the host) would risk a broken wrist or nose (defensive response) for contact of that nature with the weapon of another. This is not funny and again IMO, is an act of serious aggression. Note that "friends" have been killed by "friends" especially when drunk.
I will not tolerate playing games with or careless handling of weapons.

Rant over. I mean you no disrespect and I appreciate your relaying the story - there is a point to it.

Yata hey

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Grapeshot wrote:

Legba wrote:

Yes, once - as an unfunny "joke" by a guy at a big outdoor party. I had taken the precaution of removing the magazine owing to the crowd density and the number of drunks about. I thought that some fool might try to grab it. Sure enough, the guy actually hosting the party got at it...

Fortunately, he was otherwise a responsible gun owner and he gave it back without incident. Just shows you how muchbooze impairs judgment.

-ljp

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Two points, the 1st is a recommendation and the 2nd my opinion and attitude.

Invest in a quality, active retention holster. Work on moves to prevent/protect gun grabs. In a crowded, close environment, my elbow rests on top of my 1911 - it looks very casual. I never, repeat never, carry anything with my right hand. The most you will ever see in it is a knife, fork or spoon.

IMO or WMA (with my attitude) - I would have left and returned the next day to have at the least a very serious conversation with this host, leaving no doubt as to my outrage and concern over his actions. Point of fact, with some people he (the host) would risk a broken wrist or nose (defensive response) for contact of that nature with the weapon of another. This is not funny and again IMO, is an act of serious aggression. Note that "friends" have been killed by "friends" especially when drunk.
I will not tolerate playing games with or careless handling of weapons.

Rant over. I mean you no disrespect and I appreciate your relaying the story - there is a point to it.

Yata hey

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Grapeshot, I totally agree. This isnot funny one little bit. I don't think any of my gun toting friends would try to pull a joke like this. If they did I don't think they would be upset at my getting physical with them after the liquor wore off. Until then I'll be expecting an apology and until I get one I will not be around them much. Someone could get seriously hurt (them) or killed (them, me, or someone else in the crowd).

Rant over. Thiswas a serious situation.

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I've not yet begun carrying but I'll say this, If anyone has the nerve to try it (other than a LEO while I'm being detained) they will be sorry. Taking an expensive lethalchunk of metal registered to my name is not something I'll tolerate at all. I'll definately be carrying a knife on the weak side.

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Were those LEO's who were/attempted disarmed just minding thier own business.
Most of the videos I see of gun grabs are when the police actively get involved with
the perp. I hope you do seperate these incidents from just walking down street
and getting disarmed by a passer-by.

Does being tackeled by 3 BIG leo's from out of blue in attempt to seperate me from my "fragmentary hand grenades" count. They didn't get them in the end.

As for walking into a gang and getting gun removed....
Why would you enter a group of thugs, armed or not?


Now a better question for poll.....
How many have managed to keep thier gun past a patdown?
I've passed twice now. Hidden front shirt pocket first time, belt second.
I really miss that shirt, the pocket seam was in the design so it couldn't be
detected, especialy at night while spread on police car hood.
Of course haven't managed an OC pass yet.

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Grapeshot wrote:

Legba wrote:

Yes, once - as an unfunny "joke" by a guy at a big outdoor party. I had taken the precaution of removing the magazine owing to the crowd density and the number of drunks about. I thought that some fool might try to grab it. Sure enough, the guy actually hosting the party got at it...

Fortunately, he was otherwise a responsible gun owner and he gave it back without incident. Just shows you how muchbooze impairs judgment.

-ljp

Click to expand...

Two points, the 1st is a recommendation and the 2nd my opinion and attitude.

Invest in a quality, active retention holster. Work on moves to prevent/protect gun grabs. In a crowded, close environment, my elbow rests on top of my 1911 - it looks very casual. I never, repeat never, carry anything with my right hand. The most you will ever see in it is a knife, fork or spoon.

IMO or WMA (with my attitude) - I would have left and returned the next day to have at the least a very serious conversation with this host, leaving no doubt as to my outrage and concern over his actions. Point of fact, with some people he (the host) would risk a broken wrist or nose (defensive response) for contact of that nature with the weapon of another. This is not funny and again IMO, is an act of serious aggression. Note that "friends" have been killed by "friends" especially when drunk.
I will not tolerate playing games with or careless handling of weapons.

Rant over. I mean you no disrespect and I appreciate your relaying the story - there is a point to it.

Yata hey

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That's a great big +1 .

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Not been carrying long enough I guess, but if I'm even the slightest bit worried about it I'll let my right arm hand straight down, which effectively rests my elbow against the grip.

So, if someone is going to attempt to disarm me w/o cracking me over the head with a 2x4 (or similar), I'll notice, and take appropriate action.

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+1 on practicing defensive retention techniques.

If some over-zealous rent-a-cop (or anyone else) tried to grab my gun, it would be ugly quickly (likely broken bones, courtesy of training provided to Uncle Sam's Misguided Children), and damn near fatal a short -time later, as once they go for the gun and have defended the gun, I'm drawing it and holding them at gun point - the minute they touch my gun it has gone from strong arm robbery to armed robbery.

As for LEO who ask me to disarm, I will object verbally, state that I will not resist, and ask them to take custody of the handgun IN ITS HOLSTER (so they don't put their booger hookers on the bang switch).

The most dangerous people on our local range are the LEOs.

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Hi all,

I'm new to this site and I am the guy who responded to Skip RE: this topic and caused this poll to happen in the first place... This poll is so highly unscientific for so many good reasons, the skewed results are literally laughable in reality...

You see, my summation about open carry being unnecessarily dangerous IS 100% valid... Legba's "non-funny joke" replyis a PERFECT example of what I intimated with my question to Skip... The guy who tookLegba's gun was drunk, and thank goodness the gun was unloaded... Now put yourself in a situation where the perp is not drunk (this even more coordinated), is an aggressive gang banger/drug dealer/punk type, and he is intent on taking your openly carried pistol away from you.... It CAN and WILL happen... You turn the corner in a mall/shopping center/grocery store/anywhere you feel "safe" and BAM, you can be disarmed and you are now his next victim with your own gun. Worst of all, through your arrogant actions of needlessly carrying in the open, that perp now has your gun to be used on who knows what other innocent bystanders... All of which could have been easily avoided if you were just carrying concealed...

Since open carry is not very widely executed by the average civilian, the only stats that I can draw upon (no pun intended) to substanciate my point would be to use the ones collected about armed law enforcement officers (LEOs) during their course of duty. According to info I found on the LEAA site; there are approximately 60,000 assaults on law enforcement annually. Also, recognize that every attack on an officer involves at least one gun in some way (the same as it would be in the civilian "open carry" perspective), except that LEOs in a dangerous situation usually have a partner or "backup". We civilians do not have this luxury usually (that's why we carry our guns in the first place, right?).

Important stat to remember: Depending on the year, as many as 10-20% of the officers killed in the line of duty are killed by bad guys who take the officer’s gun and use it against them. Interpolating that data to the above number of attacks on LEOs, that means 6,000 to 12,000 LEOs PER YEAR, DIE at the hands ofthe criminal who disarms them!

Another facor which officers are aware of when dealing with repeat offenders that we civilians usually don't train for is that bad guys routinely practice dis-arming techniques in while serving time in prison -- often while they are ‘bulking up’ with prison weight lifting equipment. An LEO that is aware and trained for this will STILL get their weapon stripped and die from that weapon in the percentages presented above. The odds of civilians who open carry, dying by the same aggressive confruntations HAVE TO BE EVEN HIGHER, given our lack of training/understanding of these very valid threats...

Now, I've heard lots of "tough guy" talk in this posting about learning other defensive measures so that youR gun doesn't get taken from you when you open carry, but all of that extra/necessary training is 99.9% USELESS if one just carries concealed!!! Use your training time to master proper shooting techniques, other valuable clearing drills, and quite frankly learning how to RUN FAST to avoid trouble!

Now, before the blugeoning starts on me, let me tell you that I "pack" EVERY DAY and have so since 2001. But no matter what my rights are, my state is "Shall Issue" so I ONLY carry concealed for all of the above reasons... I am not looking for trouble by open carrying, but if trouble finds me, I CAN neutralize it with my big SURPRISE the thug doesn't know about until he's 185 grains heavier (the weight of my bullet in his body)!. For those that aren't lucky enough to live in a shall issue state, but still have the right to open carry, then I say "OK, if you HAVE TO", but please realize that you make yourself a target of sorts, especially in a state which doesn't recognize "gun rights" very well because the local criminals ALSO feel the weight of being descriminated against on the "gun" issue, so your handgun is even MORE VALUABLE to them in those localities...

"I can carry openly, so I will", is not the best logic when considering how a deadly weapon can be carried... Look at the lady who recently was prosecuted in PA for open carry at her kids soccer game... She even had a CCW so what is the logic behind open carry that day? She was just asking for trouble, that's what. And, she's lucky that trouble came in the form of "legal trouble" via an LEO arresting her than some punk hiding behind her car with atire ironto smack her on the back of the head, take her gun, and possible kill her AND her kids! Yes, it IS that easy to happen, even to a 225lb 6' 1" tallguy like me! To think otherwise is very dangerous and equally short sighted....

Rant off now... What do you think?