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Thread: ACLU Recuiting in Fremont

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    I was just out walking around during lunch and saw several people recruiting for the ACLU at the corner for Fremont and 34th in front of the PCC. I thought you may want to know incase anyone is in the area and wants to chat with them about how the ACLU's view has changed on 2A. They told me that it's still not an individual right.

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    Regular Member gsx1138's Avatar
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    Did you tell them thanks for rendering their existence pointless? It's obvious politics with these guys. They don't care about civil rights.
    "Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world." ~ Musashi

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    Should get a group to OC and act interested in signing up. That will confuse em. Not that they need any more confusion. A group developed to protect civil rights seeking to destroy them.

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    Nitrox314 wrote:
    Should get a group to OC and act interested in signing up. That will confuse em. Not that they need any more confusion. A group developed to protect civil rights seeking to destroy them.
    Funny how they support killing live babies, but want to protect murderers on death row and kill the Second Amendment. Well, the 2A is ours, again, so they can KMA

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    Already a proud member


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    Ravenhawk wrote:
    Already a proud member
    Respectfully, RH, as a supporter of the 2A, how can that work out good for you in the long run?

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    The ACLU needs to get A CLU.



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    First time posting, but I thought I'd weigh in on this. The ACLU is made up of people, which means that it's affected by the biases of it's makeup. If the ACLU isn't pro second amendment, than it clearly needs more members that are.

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    Trillinon wrote:
    First time posting, but I thought I'd weigh in on this. The ACLU is made up of people, which means that it's affected by the biases of it's makeup. If the ACLU isn't pro second amendment, than it clearly needs more members that are.
    Don't you think, though, that in the meantime your dues and resources would be used for issues that go way beyond your moral acceptance? Having said that, I belong to AARP, so shame on me

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    Regular Member gsx1138's Avatar
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    I'd totally support the ACLU if not for their perplexing stand on the 2A. If everyone's civil rights are protected then so are yours. However, because of their stand they are not in favor of civil rights for everyone. It's about not just supporting what's convenient but what is right.
    "Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world." ~ Musashi

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    I agree that if the membership of the ACLU changed, eventually thier position on 2A might change. Since SCOTUS only recently ruled th RKBA is an individual right, it might take some time to change the ACLU view -- maybe a long time. But then again, the extension of full civil rights to minorities has taken (is taking) a long time, also.

    Remember that even though the ACLU isn't pro-2A, they do support freedom of speech and due process, which the OC movement both rely on to move our position forward. Certainlymembers have had 4A and due process violated.

    I think we should all sign up just to get the T-shirt . . . and then we can wear the shirts for our well-publicized picnics and other events.



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    Charles Paul Lincoln wrote:
    I agree that if the membership of the ACLU changed, eventually thier position on 2A might change. Since SCOTUS only recently ruled th RKBA is an individual right, it might take some time to change the ACLU view -- maybe a long time. But then again, the extension of full civil rights to minorities has taken (is taking) a long time, also.

    Remember that even though the ACLU isn't pro-2A, they do support freedom of speech and due process, which the OC movement both rely on to move our position forward. Certainlymembers have had 4A and due process violated.

    I think we should all sign up just to get the T-shirt . . . and then we can wear the shirts for our well-publicized picnics and other events.

    I was unaware that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights was a buffet, where you got to pick and choose what you want. I thought, there I go again, thinking; that they were a package deal. If the ACLU, or anybody else, that includes Obama,doesn't accept the package they are the enemy and need to be treated as such. Not supported or toleratedat all.

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    I suppose that if, overnight, the ACLU magically had RKBA supporters for 75 percent of its members, the organization might change. But I don't believe in magic. Realistically, on the long haul to that 75 percent, the powers that be would notice that not everything was right, and they would marginalize the upstarts.

    It is possible to subvert an organization. (And "subvert" is the right word.) It's happened to most of our institutions as they've headed down the road to the left. In order for that to happen, though, the old order who run the organization have be inattentive to the threat posed by the insurgents, and the insurgents themselves have to be very focused. You could find many good labels for the ACLU and the people who run it, but "inattentive" is not one of them.

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    The ACLU is a valuable organization for basically all the other amendments, although some would use hyperbole to argue that they are communists who hate children and gun owners and want to pervert our country.

    Those same tactics are the tactics the gun grabbers use, so be careful about using them. All of your rights are equally important. They do actively protect 9 out of 10 (well, really 8 out of 10... no one even knows about the 10th amendment anymore) of our rights, so be thankful for that at least.

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    thewise1 makes a very good point. I'd say I agree with him fully.

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    thewise1 wrote:
    The ACLU is a valuable organization for basically all the other amendments, although some would use hyperbole to argue that they are communists who hate children and gun owners and want to pervert our country.

    Those same tactics are the tactics the gun grabbers use, so be careful about using them. All of your rights are equally important. They do actively protect 9 out of 10 (well, really 8 out of 10... no one even knows about the 10th amendment anymore) of our rights, so be thankful for that at least.
    Oh, I see you strategy. Play fair and loose. No thank you, if theyuse therules that allow lying and cheating, then fine, I can work with those just fine. Only someone has to be real stupid would go to the gun fight with a knife just because the other guy, a known liar,said it was a knife fight. :shock:

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I think you're taking their stance on the 2nd amendment too seriously. I didn't really expect them to magically say, "oops, we were wrong" post-Heller.

    The simple fact is, the ACLU doesn't litigate over firearms one way or the other. They may not support (in words or actions) your un-infringed RKBA, but they haven't worked against it, and they have actually won cases helping to restore 4th amendment rights, which is very important to gun owners.

    I'm not saying we give them a free ride, I just think that, in the big picture, it's short-sighted and counter-productive to act like the defining aspect of the ACLU is their stance on firearms. It really has very little to do with what the organization actually does.


    I'm also not a fan of the NRA; I don't approve of their partisan approach to defending human rights, and I don't approve of their support of infringing legislation. However, I still give them credit where due.

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    marshaul wrote:
    I think you're taking their stance on the 2nd amendment too seriously. I didn't really expect them to magically say, "oops, we were wrong" post-Heller.

    The simple fact is, the ACLU doesn't litigate over firearms one way or the other. They may not support (in words or actions) your un-infringed RKBA, but they haven't worked against it, and they have actually won cases helping to restore 4th amendment rights, which is very important to gun owners.

    I'm not saying we give them a free ride, I just think that, in the big picture, it's short-sighted and counter-productive to act like the defining aspect of the ACLU is their stance on firearms. It really has very little to do with what the organization actually does.


    I'm also not a fan of the NRA; I don't approve of their partisan approach to defending human rights, and I don't approve of their support of infringing legislation. However, I still give them credit where due.
    You are not listening. Anybody or group that thinks the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is a buffet is our enemy. Its all or nothing. Remember this:

    TOLERANCE is a virtue possessed by those with no conviction.




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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I'm listening perfectly well, thank you, and for once I fundamentally disagree with you.

    Things are not as black and white as you suggest. I only view as enemies those who actively work against my fundamental human rights. The ACLU has yet to meet this qualification.

    Furthermore, your little platitude could not be further from the truth. Tolerance is a virtue. It is the mark of a free man living in a free society.

    I possess great tolerance. I challenge you to find fault in my convictions.

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    marshaul wrote:
    I'm listening perfectly well, thank you, and for once I fundamentally disagree with you.

    Things are not as black and white as you suggest. I only view as enemies those who actively work against my fundamental human rights. The ACLU has yet to meet this qualification.

    Furthermore, your little platitude could not be further from the truth. Tolerance is a virtue. It is the mark of a free man living in a free society.

    I possess great tolerance. I challenge you to find fault in my convictions.
    Fine have it your way, you keep being tolerant until they trod your body into the mud. That's what your tolerance will get you, because be assured that the other side is not being tolerant at all.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I choose to walk the high road, my friend. Intolerance will not defeat right. Ignorance bears its own defeat.

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    thewise1 wrote:
    The ACLU is a valuable organization for basically all the other amendments, although some would use hyperbole to argue that they are communists who hate children and gun owners and want to pervert our country.

    Those same tactics are the tactics the gun grabbers use, so be careful about using them. All of your rights are equally important. They do actively protect 9 out of 10 (well, really 8 out of 10... no one even knows about the 10th amendment anymore) of our rights, so be thankful for that at least.
    I agree. (except I haven't heard of the government stationing troops in a home, so it's fair to say they, along with everyone else, ignore the 3rd.)

    I am a supporter of the ACLU, but they really need to protect ALL constitutional rights.

    Part of the problem is the membership is dominated by people who aren't favorable towards the 2A, and so the chasm exists between the ACLU and pro-gun Constitution defenders. I may sould like a stoned hippie here, but I think gun owners would fair better if they just worked with the ACLU, perhaps joining en masse and internally change the policies.

    While we're on the topic, about 99% percent of what they do is good. It's just those horrible, horrible NAMBLA-type cases that make the news and destroy the name of an otherwise good organization.Send

    But, there still is the NRA, for the rights the ACLU ignores.

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    marshaul wrote:
    I choose to walk the high road, my friend. Intolerance will not defeat right. Ignorance bears its own defeat.
    On TV and in the movies maybe, but history proves you wrong way to often.

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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    You are not listening. Anybody or group that thinks the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is a buffet is our enemy. Its all or nothing. Remember this:

    TOLERANCE is a virtue possessed by those with no conviction.


    You support McCain, who is fine with ******* all over probably half the bill of rights in the name of security, but somehow you rationalize that away.

    I respectfully request that you consider that and either adjust your claims here or stop supporting him.

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    marshaul wrote:
    I'm listening perfectly well, thank you, and for once I fundamentally disagree with you.

    Things are not as black and white as you suggest. I only view as enemies those who actively work against my fundamental human rights. The ACLU has yet to meet this qualification.

    Furthermore, your little platitude could not be further from the truth. Tolerance is a virtue. It is the mark of a free man living in a free society.

    I possess great tolerance. I challenge you to find fault in my convictions.
    IMO, you're allowing the opposition way too much wiggle room......The ACLU does not support conservative values. The rights they do support are all left leaning. I cannot not think of one conservative position they are for. When left leaning lawyers get thru with The Heller deal, we might well wish for pre-Heller conditions.......

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