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ACLU Recuiting in Fremont

cynicist

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thewise1 wrote:
The ACLU is a valuable organization for basically all the other amendments, although some would use hyperbole to argue that they are communists who hate children and gun owners and want to pervert our country.

Those same tactics are the tactics the gun grabbers use, so be careful about using them. All of your rights are equally important. They do actively protect 9 out of 10 (well, really 8 out of 10... no one even knows about the 10th amendment anymore) of our rights, so be thankful for that at least.
I agree. (except I haven't heard of the government stationing troops in a home, so it's fair to say they, along with everyone else, ignore the 3rd.)

I am a supporter of the ACLU, but they really need to protect ALL constitutional rights.

Part of the problem is the membership is dominated by people who aren't favorable towards the 2A, and so the chasm exists between the ACLU and pro-gun Constitution defenders. I may sould like a stoned hippie here, but I think gun owners would fair better if they just worked with the ACLU, perhaps joining en masse and internally change the policies.

While we're on the topic, about 99% percent of what they do is good. It's just those horrible, horrible NAMBLA-type cases that make the news and destroy the name of an otherwise good organization.Send

But, there still is the NRA, for the rights the ACLU ignores.
 

thewise1

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Bear 45/70 wrote:
You are not listening. Anybody or group that thinks the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is a buffet is our enemy. Its all or nothing. Remember this:

TOLERANCE is a virtue possessed by those with no conviction.
You support McCain, who is fine with pissing all over probably half the bill of rights in the name of security, but somehow you rationalize that away.

I respectfully request that you consider that and either adjust your claims here or stop supporting him.
 

BlaineG

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marshaul wrote:
I'm listening perfectly well, thank you, and for once I fundamentally disagree with you.

Things are not as black and white as you suggest. I only view as enemies those who actively work against my fundamental human rights. The ACLU has yet to meet this qualification.

Furthermore, your little platitude could not be further from the truth. Tolerance is a virtue. It is the mark of a free man living in a free society.

I possess great tolerance. I challenge you to find fault in my convictions.
IMO, you're allowing the opposition way too much wiggle room......The ACLU does not support conservative values. The rights they do support are all left leaning. I cannot not think of one conservative position they are for. When left leaning lawyers get thru with The Heller deal, we might well wish for pre-Heller conditions.......
 

thewise1

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BlaineG wrote:
marshaul wrote:
I'm listening perfectly well, thank you, and for once I fundamentally disagree with you.

Things are not as black and white as you suggest. I only view as enemies those who actively work against my fundamental human rights. The ACLU has yet to meet this qualification.

Furthermore, your little platitude could not be further from the truth. Tolerance is a virtue. It is the mark of a free man living in a free society.

I possess great tolerance. I challenge you to find fault in my convictions.
IMO, you're allowing the opposition way too much wiggle room......The ACLU does not support conservative values. The rights they do support are all left leaning. I cannot not think of one conservative position they are for. When left leaning lawyers get thru with The Heller deal, we might well wish for pre-Heller conditions.......
What? The 4th amendment is a left leaning right? The 1st? The 5th?

This is absurd.
 

BlaineG

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thewise1 wrote:
Bear 45/70 wrote:
You are not listening. Anybody or group that thinks the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is a buffet is our enemy. Its all or nothing. Remember this:

TOLERANCE is a virtue possessed by those with no conviction.
You support McCain, who is fine with pissing all over probably half the bill of rights in the name of security, but somehow you rationalize that away.

I respectfully request that you consider that and either adjust your claims here or stop supporting him.
Balderdash.........List and prove any of your statement, Sir....And please don't trot out the tired old DemonCrap line of talking points....In fact, name two rights you are now without that were there before, please.
 

thewise1

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BlaineG wrote:
Balderdash.........List and prove any of your statement, Sir....And please don't trot out the tired old DemonCrap line of talking points....In fact, name two rights you are now without that were there before, please.
Warrantless wiretaps. I'm just going to do one because I've been down this road before where people rationalize away their rights in the name of fighting terrorism that has less chance of hurting them than dying on I5 in the morning commute, and it's a waste of my time to try and argue it with you.

I'll even save you the trouble and talk about how I shouldn't care if I have nothing to hide blah blah blah blah blah
 

Bear 45/70

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thewise1 wrote:
Bear 45/70 wrote:
You are not listening. Anybody or group that thinks the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is a buffet is our enemy. Its all or nothing. Remember this:

TOLERANCE is a virtue possessed by those with no conviction.
You support McCain, who is fine with pissing all over probably half the bill of rights in the name of security, but somehow you rationalize that away.

I respectfully request that you consider that and either adjust your claims here or stop supporting him.

Where the hell do you get that I support McCain? I don't really like him at all as he is almost as two faced as osoma. My choice has been all along has been:.

NONE OF THE ABOVE. START OVER AND GET IT RIGHT FOR ONCE!

But then of course you just assumed I supported McCain because I really hate osama. You just aren't paying attention.
 

thewise1

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Bear 45/70 wrote:
thewise1 wrote:
Bear 45/70 wrote:
You are not listening. Anybody or group that thinks the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is a buffet is our enemy. Its all or nothing. Remember this:

TOLERANCE is a virtue possessed by those with no conviction.
You support McCain, who is fine with pissing all over probably half the bill of rights in the name of security, but somehow you rationalize that away.

I respectfully request that you consider that and either adjust your claims here or stop supporting him.

Where the hell do you get that I support McCain? I don't really like him at all as he is almost as two faced as osoma. My choice has been all along has been:.

NONE OF THE ABOVE. START OVER AND GET IT RIGHT FOR ONCE!

But then of course you just assumed I supported McCain because I really hate osama. You just aren't paying attention.
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=14797&forum_id=55&highlight=mccain

that one implies mccain is a better choice...

or this...

I'll take an old man every time over a know it all liar of a punk that doesn't know crap about squat. But then you haven't got the brains to recognize a liar when he is lying to you. You and your kind are the reason this country is so screwed up. The Dems are for the people, yeah right, they are the reason Social Security is going bankrupt and are screwing people like me out of what I paid for, for longer than you have been alive, Duckster. Oh yeah, your wonderful candidate snubbed wounded American soldiers, twice on his kiss the arabs ass trip. Why is he campaigning in the middle east to start with? The arabs aren't voting in this election.
Actually the whole thread is full of that implication, but I want to admit that after looking closer, you did say at least once that you would prefer none of the above, so I'll go ahead and apologize for not reading the whole story first.

Either way I do think the ACLU is a valuable organization for other reasons.
 

BlaineG

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thewise1 wrote:
BlaineG wrote:
Balderdash.........List and prove any of your statement, Sir....And please don't trot out the tired old DemonCrap line of talking points....In fact, name two rights you are now without that were there before, please.
Warrantless wiretaps. I'm just going to do one because I've been down this road before where people rationalize away their rights in the name of fighting terrorism that has less chance of hurting them than dying on I5 in the morning commute, and it's a waste of my time to try and argue it with you.

I'll even save you the trouble and talk about how I shouldn't care if I have nothing to hide blah blah blah blah blah
Have you got the smartass out of your system now and willing to talk? Warrentless Wiretaps were first used for RICO many, many, many moons ago.....perfectly legal, with judical oversight....never once...not once, has it been abused.......Now, tell me when you've been wiretapped?? Never....Who have been? People that connections with terrorists..........And how about this, Mr. Superior, tell me the morning on I-5 where 3000 people were killed..........You hate America First people piss me off, blabbing stuff you hear on Air America and The Black Helicopter AM Shows:cuss:
 

thewise1

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BlaineG wrote:
thewise1 wrote:
BlaineG wrote:
Balderdash.........List and prove any of your statement, Sir....And please don't trot out the tired old DemonCrap line of talking points....In fact, name two rights you are now without that were there before, please.
Warrantless wiretaps. I'm just going to do one because I've been down this road before where people rationalize away their rights in the name of fighting terrorism that has less chance of hurting them than dying on I5 in the morning commute, and it's a waste of my time to try and argue it with you.

I'll even save you the trouble and talk about how I shouldn't care if I have nothing to hide blah blah blah blah blah
Have you got the smartass out of your system now and willing to talk? Warrentless Wiretaps were first used for RICO many, many, many moons ago.....perfectly legal, with judical oversight....never once...not once, has it been abused.......Now, tell me when you've been wiretapped?? Never....Who have been? People that connections with terrorists..........And how about this, Mr. Superior, tell me the morning on I-5 where 3000 people were killed..........You hate America First people piss me off, blabbing stuff you hear on Air America and The Black Helicopter AM Shows:cuss:
:lol: I rest my case.
 

BlaineG

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What case? Look, Friend......When you shoot some street punk, The ACLU is going to be on your azz like white on rice. They are going to try to bury you for violation of that poor little, abused, hated by socity kid...... The ACLU is your enemy........ Go ahead and support baby murderers, death row inmates, terrorists, criminals and aid and abet the ones trying to take your weapons......You rest your case, my butt:dude:
 

thewise1

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BlaineG wrote:
What case? Look, Friend......When you shoot some street punk, The ACLU is going to be on your azz like white on rice. They are going to try to bury you for violation of that poor little, abused, hated by socity kid...... The ACLU is your enemy........ Go ahead and support baby murderers, death row inmates, terrorists, criminals and aid and abet the ones trying to take your weapons......You rest your case, my butt:dude:
:lol:

The ACLU does not prosecute. Argument failure.
 

marshaul

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Bear 45/70 wrote:
marshaul wrote:
I choose to walk the high road, my friend. Intolerance will not defeat right. Ignorance bears its own defeat.
On TV and in the movies maybe, but history proves you wrong way to often.

Funny, because I don't watch TV, but I do read history. Suffice it to say, I think you're wrong. No doubt evil has had its time on many occasions throughout history. But that history doesn't teach us that meeting intolerance with intolerance is the solution to anything.

BlaineG wrote:
IMO, you're allowing the opposition way too much wiggle room......The ACLU does not support conservative values. The rights they do support are all left leaning.  I cannot not think of one conservative position they are for.  When left leaning lawyers get thru with The Heller deal, we might well wish for pre-Heller conditions.......

Well, I don't support "conservative" values either. There are no "left-leaning" rights. Rights are rights. Period.

This divisive, "left vs right" attitude is the very thing the ACLU are themselves guilty of with their stance on the 2nd amendment. I choose to be the better man, avoid being part of the problem, and recognize right as right, be it "left-leaning" or "right-leaning."

Personally, I no longer have any idea what "left" and "right" mean. America's political spectrum has become so corrupted with divisive language and attitudes, themselves the very tools used to distract the American people with endless bickering across imaginary lines, when in reality we all want the Liberty that is our birthright.

Edit: By the way, RICO itself is an egregious abuse. The very crimes it seeks to prevent are created by government's own illogical, harmful prohibitions on activities we have every right to engage in and it has no right to regulate. In effect, the government created organized crime so it could say, "Look at all this crime! Safety trumps liberty! Give us power to stop the problems we created, so those problems can get worse, we can ask for more power, and the vicious cycle can spiral out of control!"
 

BlaineG

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thewise1 wrote:
BlaineG wrote:
What case? Look, Friend......When you shoot some street punk, The ACLU is going to be on your azz like white on rice. They are going to try to bury you for violation of that poor little, abused, hated by socity kid...... The ACLU is your enemy........ Go ahead and support baby murderers, death row inmates, terrorists, criminals and aid and abet the ones trying to take your weapons......You rest your case, my butt:dude:
:lol:

The ACLU does not prosecute. Argument failure.

Anyone knows that..........They will, however, take the side of the punk, or if managed to kill him, the side of the family and try to make you part with everything you have or will have. Even if you win, you're going to be broke and ruined after paying for your defense.......You are one seriously misguided liberal.

TWO, you're liberal values and my American ones are just too far apart, we'll just have to disagree on the ACLU's value.....
 

marshaul

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And you, Blaine, obviously don't know very much about the ACLU.

Edit: I know you weren't specifically talking to me, but I am as American as you can possibly be. My ancestors were colonials and revolutionaries (and later Rebels), and my values embrace American liberties above all else. Do not think to question their "Americanness" by any criterion.
 

thewise1

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BlaineG wrote:

Anyone knows that..........They will, however, take the side of the punk, or if managed to kill him, the side of the family and try to make you part with everything you have or will have. Even if you win, you're going to be broke and ruined after paying for your defense.......You are one seriously misguided liberal.

TWO, you're liberal values and my American ones are just too far apart, we'll just have to disagree on the ACLU's value.....
Essentially where we differ is that you believe the punk shouldn't have any rights - prior to his conviction - because you believe he's a punk.

I believe that we all have rights, and they protect them for all of us. If someone violates the punks rights, then they should be protected as well.

Also, you misspelled libertarian as liberal. And I don't want your 'values' where rights are only afforded those you feel should have them, thanks.
 

BlaineG

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marshaul wrote:
And you, Blaine, obviously don't know very much about the ACLU.
I would be thrilled to learn why you think so..... I've been battling their values since I started paying attention to un-American activities. Very rarely will you find them supporting a conservative point of view and always supporting criminals. Sorry....I am not tolerant of liberal values....I have watched them whittle away the values that once upon a time made America great......
 

marshaul

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Libertarianism is the only true American value system. Modern "conservatism" (which isn't conservative at all) is a rather heinous import from tyranny-loving Europeans who couldn't stand the thought of real freedom.
 
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