Soliciting Contributions for Case Against Denver, CO

irfner · Sep 1, 2008

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Lonnie, There is no reason for you to have to justifyyour actions here. Your history with OC speaks for itself. Anyone interested can research this forum and get a pretty good idea of the contributions you have made.

I will send another donation by snail this week.

P.S. You don't win money every time you win a law suite. Sometimes victory is measured in other ways.

sv_libertarian · Sep 1, 2008

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Marc, I don't know why you have issues with this. If Lonnie wishes to launch a lawsuit that is his right. If he wishes to ask for money for it, it is his right. It is also your right to ignore it if you don't care to contribute. To sit here and argue about why you think Lonnie's reasoning is flawed is also your right. The whole thing is counterproductive though. Folks who are inclined to give money for this will, and folks who won't, won't. But you are not making things any better with your incessant drumming about this.

heresolong · Sep 1, 2008

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I don't have any extra money right now (just made a donation to the McCain campaign) but might at the end of the month as I only get paid once per month.

Have you approached the NRA's legal division? They deal with these kinds of lawsuits on a regular basis. They recently won the Morton Grove, IL when the city backed down. They would probably be interested in providing some sort of assistance to a high profile case like Denver.

jarhead1911A · Sep 1, 2008

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Can anyone here please explain to me why the members of the CO oc group are not all up in arms about this? Why does it take someone from WA to deal with something in CO?

How is this our problem in WA? Lonnie next time take your gun with you in your suitecase and put it back on when u get to WA or whoever u have pick you up bring it to you.

sv_libertarian · Sep 1, 2008

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Who cares why CO isn't up in arms about this? Does liberty come with limitations or must certain people act before others can take up a cause?

jarhead1911A · Sep 1, 2008

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I CARE WHY.... And so do others.

sv_libertarian · Sep 1, 2008

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jarhead1055 wrote:

I CARE WHY.... And so do others.

Then DON'T HELP OUT! But don't get in the way of folks who do care.

And who is this others? And why should your or anyone else's opinions count in the matter of folks freely choosing to help in something? If consenting adults want to take part in their venture that is their right. Or would you strip that away from them and compell folks to only do things that have been vetted through you Marc?

Think about it. Nobody is forcing you to take part in this. All you are doing is trying to shove your viewpoint down other's throats who have chosen to take part in this venture. Surely you have something more productive to do in your own life?

jarhead1911A · Sep 1, 2008

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sv_libertarian wrote:

jarhead1055 wrote:

I CARE WHY.... And so do others.

Click to expand...

Then DON'T HELP OUT! But don't get in the way of folks who do care.

And who is this others? And why should your or anyone else's opinions count in the matter of folks freely choosing to help in something? If consenting adults want to take part in their venture that is their right. Or would you strip that away from them and compell folks to only do things that have been vetted through you Marc?

Think about it. Nobody is forcing you to take part in this. All you are doing is trying to shove your viewpoint down other's throats who have chosen to take part in this venture. Surely you have something more productive to do in your own life?

No i have to listen to his whinning about his little problem and people are tired of listening to it as well. I didnt know that lonnie needed you to hold his hand through all of this.

I am not stoping anyone from helping lonnie i am tired of everything that happens always upsetting lonnie. Its not my job or anyone elses to deal with all of his issues,
If you want to know just how people really feel try looking on the CO board on this subject and see the hundeds of people who are NOT posting on this and up in arms.

guess people dont care about lonnie's little problem. big suprise. I want to know how many people have actually met him face to face? I for one am tired of his self serving i am more important attitude.

He is a ghost, He dosnt show up to any of the functions yet he wants to direct himself as the one who deals with it all. So Lonnie if your out there tell everyone on here THE WHOLE STORY. Dont leave any details out. Failing to say anything is a lie of ommision and no one likes a liar.

So yes lonnie i am calling you out. So either put up or shut up.

sv_libertarian · Sep 1, 2008

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I'm bored and there is nothing else to do online tonight. Sorry.

Machoduck · Sep 1, 2008

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jarhead1055 wrote:

Can anyone here please explain to me why the members of the CO oc group are not all up in arms about this? Why does it take someone from WA to deal with something in CO?

How is this our problem in WA? Lonnie next time take your gun with you in your suitecase and put it back on when u get to WA or whoever u have pick you up bring it to you.

Jarhead, I don't think you've looked at this from enough different angles yet.

From the point of view of a Colorado resident there's no problem, except for having to spend a few dollars more for a CO resident permit than he would have paid for a Utan non-res permit. Simple solution: get a CO res permit, CC in Denver, and wait for common sense to break out. He couldn't sue if he wanted to because he has no standing; he's not a non-resident of CO. He would have to realize that any legal action will have to be taken by residents of other states.

For residents of Washington (the real Washington, not Rome on the Potomic) it only matters a lot if you visit Colorado, unless you believe that we're in this together. We who visit Colorado and choose not to be victims must open carry unless we happen to live in a state whose CPL is recognized by CO. That and stay out of the Denver Logic-Free Zone. We have been given no choice in the matter by the powers that be. It wasn't our choice to refuse recognition of Colorado's CWP; it was Christine Fraudyouare's when she was AG. Yes, WA is the fly in the ointment; CO has a law that says they have to recognize the CWPs of any state that recognizes CO. We had no control of the fact that Colorado chose not to provide a mechanism for non-residents to get a CWP. The only place to go was Utah, and now that SB07-34 has come to pass, we can't do that.

I have family in Colorado. My options are limited, thanks to the above. My only questions involve the method of attack, not the necessity of attack. Not that Denver is the most wonderful place in the world but who are they to deny me my civil rights?

MD

jarhead1911A · Sep 2, 2008

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If the problem started here then it needs to be delt with HERE. Not CO if lonnie wishes to have this states ruling overturned so we will accept a CO cwp then i am all for it!!!!!!

I just feel that running to CO to complain about a WA problem is counter productive to say the least. Its like shutting the barn door after the horse has run out.

Jared · Sep 2, 2008

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jarhead1055 wrote:

sv_libertarian wrote:

jarhead1055 wrote:

I CARE WHY.... And so do others.

Click to expand...

Then DON'T HELP OUT! But don't get in the way of folks who do care.

And who is this others? And why should your or anyone else's opinions count in the matter of folks freely choosing to help in something? If consenting adults want to take part in their venture that is their right. Or would you strip that away from them and compell folks to only do things that have been vetted through you Marc?

Think about it. Nobody is forcing you to take part in this. All you are doing is trying to shove your viewpoint down other's throats who have chosen to take part in this venture. Surely you have something more productive to do in your own life?

Click to expand...

No i have to listen to his whinning about his little problem and people are tired of listening to it as well. I didnt know that lonnie needed you to hold his hand through all of this.

I am not stoping anyone from helping lonnie i am tired of everything that happens always upsetting lonnie. Its not my job or anyone elses to deal with all of his issues,
If you want to know just how people really feel try looking on the CO board on this subject and see the hundeds of people who are NOT posting on this and up in arms.

guess people dont care about lonnie's little problem. big suprise. I want to know how many people have actually met him face to face? I for one am tired of his self serving i am more important attitude.

He is a ghost, He dosnt show up to any of the functions yet he wants to direct himself as the one who deals with it all. So Lonnie if your out there tell everyone on here THE WHOLE STORY. Dont leave any details out. Failing to say anything is a lie of ommision and no one likes a liar.

So yes lonnie i am calling you out. So either put up or shut up.

Jarhead, you are way out of line. Lonnie got the ball rolling on open carry in Washington and Oregon. Joe Waldron has personally vouched for Lonnie to me at the shot show in Orlando in 2007.

You know Joe Waldron, he's the reason washington does not have licensing and registration, an AWB, may issue CCW, and training for CCW.

Lonnie has done more for Washington than you have ever done. If he wants to go after Colorado, then that's his business, if he ask for money and you don't agree with it, then don't donate it. He works for a living and has a personal life, if he doesn't want to show up at an OC event then he doesn't have to. Whatever OC event he didn't show up at was probably uneventful because he already contacted the PD about the issue in advance.

If you think he should do more for Washington, then your obviously ignorant of what he has done, either that or perhaps you need a leader since you can't write a letter to a police department in regards to training advisories.

As far as him being a ghost, LOL, the portland PD know him. They know him because he set a letter to the city attorney and to the Chief saying that he will be open carrying in portland at a public event ( a copy of his CHL was enclosed) and that he will have someone record him all day and that any adverse interaction will result in a lawsuit.

The result was that all officers at the event had a picture of him and no police officer even confronted him.

Jared · Sep 2, 2008

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jarhead1055 wrote:

Can anyone here please explain to me why the members of the CO oc group are not all up in arms about this? Why does it take someone from WA to deal with something in CO?

How is this our problem in WA? Lonnie next time take your gun with you in your suitecase and put it back on when u get to WA or whoever u have pick you up bring it to you.

Colorado gun owners are lazy, that's why.

Also a CO resident has no standing, they can get a colorado permit so the concealed carry aspect is out the window, that only leaves the open carry.

He's trying to get Denvers OC ban lifted and get them to recognize non-resident permits since only recognizing resident permits of reciprocial states is unconstitutional as state citizenship can not be used to deny someone P & I.

grishnav · Sep 2, 2008

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I've met Lonnie.

Yes, in the flesh.

We had dinner just the other night.

We have dinner just about every time I travel to Seattle, though that'll probably stop now that I moved up here.

He's no ghost, just a busy guy. And a pretty cool and nice one at that.

jarhead1911A · Sep 2, 2008

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Well must be nice but he is still a non attending member. I dont really care what his excuse is.

Gray Peterson · Sep 3, 2008

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jarhead1055 wrote:

Well must be nice but he is still a non attending member. I dont really care what his excuse is.

Do you sign my paychecks? Unless you do sign my paychecks and therefor control my schedule, you have no right to tell me to give up work just to attend every meeting of the OCDO Washington forum. I did in fact go to the OCDO meet in Lacey back in July. I didn't see you there. So here's a big STFU right back at you for your hypocritical BS.

As for the big Kitsap meet in June, though I couldn't attend, I did had communications with the Undersheriff for Operations in Kitsap County over email, advising them of what exactly was going on, and to advise them that they had some hardasses in their department who was looking to start breaking skulls and arresting people on trumped up weapons charges. Certainly would have been a payday for anyone who had that happen, but being thrown in jail sucks. Best to avoid and educate versus getting arrested.

It seems to me, from observing the way that you talk to me, write to me, argue and bicker incessantly at me, that you need a leader, someone to bark orders at you, tell you what to do, what to advise, and continually hold your hand. You seem to equate me with an absent General who isn't actually leading, or doesn't do anything, or mingle "with the troops". The OCDO Washington forum isn't the United States Marine Corp, nor would it ever be. In fact, if you WERE actually in the Marine Corp, and given that kind of disrespect that you've given me to a General, you'd probably get thrown into the stockade for at least a few months, possibly court martialed. So be lucky that you're not in that situation.

Looking to me as your "commanding officer" is a great way to be disappointed fast (and it's probably the biggest reason you're pissed off at me and you're launching this crusade) and looking like to others that you're a frothing at the mouth fool. I won't give you advice on how to get deprogrammed from that sort of mentality. I'll leave that to other retired marines and other service members in this forum to give advise to you over PM, if they so choose.

joshmmm · Sep 3, 2008

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I am sorry for not understanding the gripe against Lonnie. Lonnie started Open Carry in Washington. If it was not for Lonnie, most likely we all would not be able to open carry in WA at this time without consequences.

Lonnie was VERY involved in the cause from the beginning--he got the first (and most of the other) training bulletins created and published. He has helped open carry more than anyone else on this board. Now that open carry is pretty much legal, the battle has, for the most part, been won here in WA Lonnie has decided to focus his time on personal matters rather than continuing to be on the front line of a war that is over... He is still here when we need him--he has helped numerous specific incidences, but he does not need to be the front-line activist to spearhead the issue anymore...

If you feel that supporting this case is without merit simply because it is in Colorado, fine--don't support it. Lonnie is not getting any money out of this--he is not trying to win a big verdict--he simply wants to right a wrong.

Guess what... this country's legal system relies on precedent. If WA decides to ban open carry in Seattle (or any carry, for that matter, as Nickels wants) we will be fighting an uphill battle as there is no federal court precedent on the issue. However, if we support CO now, and later we need to fight this here in WA, it will be an easy win.

Debate the merits of Lonnie's fight if you want... don't donate if you don't want to... but do not impugn the reputation of the most senior member on the WA forum. Lonnie has earned the respect and right to conduct this project and I would expect that everyone here give him some leeway to pursue a pet project that may very well be important for WA in the future...

jarhead1911A · Sep 3, 2008

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Lonnie Wilson wrote:

jarhead1055 wrote:

Well must be nice but he is still a non attending member. I dont really care what his excuse is.

Click to expand...

Do you sign my paychecks? Unless you do sign my paychecks and therefor control my schedule, you have no right to tell me to give up work just to attend every meeting of the OCDO Washington forum. I did in fact go to the OCDO meet in Lacey back in July. I didn't see you there. So here's a big STFU right back at you for your hypocritical BS.

As for the big Kitsap meet in June, though I couldn't attend, I did had communications with the Undersheriff for Operations in Kitsap County over email, advising them of what exactly was going on, and to advise them that they had some hardasses in their department who was looking to start breaking skulls and arresting people on trumped up weapons charges. Certainly would have been a payday for anyone who had that happen, but being thrown in jail sucks. Best to avoid and educate versus getting arrested.

It seems to me, from observing the way that you talk to me, write to me, argue and bicker incessantly at me, that you need a leader, someone to bark orders at you, tell you what to do, what to advise, and continually hold your hand. You seem to equate me with an absent General who isn't actually leading, or doesn't do anything, or mingle "with the troops". The OCDO Washington forum isn't the United States Marine Corp, nor would it ever be. In fact, if you WERE actually in the Marine Corp, and given that kind of disrespect that you've given me to a General, you'd probably get thrown into the stockade for at least a few months, possibly court martialed. So be lucky that you're not in that situation.

Looking to me as your "commanding officer" is a great way to be disappointed fast (and it's probably the biggest reason you're pissed off at me and you're launching this crusade) and looking like to others that you're a frothing at the mouth fool. I won't give you advice on how to get deprogrammed from that sort of mentality. I'll leave that to other retired marines and other service members in this forum to give advise to you over PM, if they so choose.

I love people who think they know anything about the military, You want to be so high and mighty about what you have done for OC but let me ask you this, What have you done for your country? when did you defend this country?

You think other Marines are going to straighten me out? So i didnt see you in iraq or afganistan or bosnia. MMMMM Wow you went to one meet in july lets count how many of them i went 2.

When was the last time you did anything for someone other than yourself? THought not. You are no leader and had you had any disciplain you would not be sitting on your soap box asking for money for a cause that is not a major concern.

so now how has to STFU? it isnt me and id be more than happy to take you to any branch of the military to ENLIST. But i dont think you have what it takes so maybe its time you STFU huh?

You want to talk about the military and you have no clue what its like but thats fine i fought for my country so you have the the right to run your mouth without being thrown in a brig for it.

American Rattlesnake · Sep 3, 2008

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jarhead1055 wrote:

Well must be nice but he is still a non attending member. I dont really care what his excuse is.

jarhead1055 wrote:

What have you done for your country? when did you defend this country?

Must one be an "attending member" of the "OC Club" to contribute to this movement?

Must one be military to do something useful and of lasting import for one's country?

Must one be military to defend this country? Not all enemies are external to our borders and not all enemies are best dealt with using bullets.

jarhead1911A · Sep 3, 2008

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I didnt say that you had to be an attending member to continue the movement and i took an oath to defend this country against all threats forign and domestic.

The only reason i brought up the military was because lonnie wished to attack my serive.

Soliciting Contributions for Case Against Denver, CO

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