Soliciting Contributions for Case Against Denver, CO

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so... anyone catch the season premiere of The Shield last night?

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jarhead1055 wrote:

The only reason i brought up the military was because lonnie wished to attack my serive.

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Lonnie hardly attacked your service, or the Corps, or anybody else's service. He, like everyone else, is trying to get you to recognize the salient points here and eschew the chaff.

As for myself, I'm certainly impressed with your service, and what has been accomplished in the last few years, probably more than you yourself. I'm sorry to say that I don't know what all the decorations are that you pictured. Would you please explain them to me?

MD

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jarhead1055 wrote:

I didnt say that you had to be an attending member to continue the movement and i took an oath to defend this country against all threats forign and domestic.

The only reason i brought up the military was because lonnie wished to attack my serive.

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I didn't attack your service, I attacked your worldview and your mental state. Big difference, bub.

Anyone who uses their military service as a shield against criticism for their own screwed up behavior is either a coward or a grade A whack-a-mole.

You've called me a liar repeatedly, and then offer no proof other than your own personal suspicions other than your own twisted sense of "He's bad news because of not attending a meetings enough".

As for you goading me into enlisting, you might want to check some of the regs that have been passed by Congress.

10USC651
Article 125 of the UCMJ

I couldn't join even if I wanted to. Every time I came back from overseas I'd be violating Article 125 which is a felony charge. Not to mention the whole "other soldiers can talk about their personal lifes" but I can't. Not to mention these incidents:

Allen Schindler
Barry Winchell

Those are just the two examples I remember off the top of my head. There's plenty more where they came from.

More recent news on the subject

As you can see, by wanting to drag me to a local enlistment office, you ask me to do the very things that you continually accuse me of: Lying and omitting. You also expect me to put myself in the most disarmed area possible (you see, enlisted soldiers can't carry on base without a special order to do so) so I can get my head bashed in by the random enlisted man because I slipped and said something about my partner?

I'm not willing to commit crimes, lie, or omit in order to satisfy your desire to make me "know what it feels like".

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Lonnie Wilson wrote:

jarhead1055 wrote:

I didnt say that you had to be an attending member to continue the movement and i took an oath to defend this country against all threats forign and domestic.

The only reason i brought up the military was because lonnie wished to attack my serive.

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I didn't attack your service, I attacked your worldview and your mental state. Big difference, bub.

Anyone who uses their military service as a shield against criticism for their own screwed up behavior is either a coward or a grade A whack-a-mole.

You've called me a liar repeatedly, and then offer no proof other than your own personal suspicions other than your own twisted sense of "He's bad news because of not attending a meetings enough".

As for you goading me into enlisting, you might want to check some of the regs that have been passed by Congress.

10USC651
Article 125 of the UCMJ

I couldn't join even if I wanted to. Every time I came back from overseas I'd be violating Article 125 which is a felony charge. Not to mention the whole "other soldiers can talk about their personal lifes" but I can't. Not to mention these incidents:

Allen Schindler
Barry Winchell

Those are just the two examples I remember off the top of my head. There's plenty more where they came from.

More recent news on the subject

As you can see, by wanting to drag me to a local enlistment office, you ask me to do the very things that you continually accuse me of: Lying and omitting. You also expect me to put myself in the most disarmed area possible (you see, enlisted soldiers can't carry on base without a special order to do so) so I can get my head bashed in by the random enlisted man because I slipped and said something about my partner?

I'm not willing to commit crimes, lie, or omit in order to satisfy your desire to make me "know what it feels like".

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well this is intresting so now that you have brought the "i am gay" excuse into this convo i am going to explain to you why you are just a coward and being gay has no real meaning in the military.

first off Clinton passed a law a few years ago... "dont ask dont tell" must have forgotten about that now. Second of all do you really think you would be the only gay person in the military?

The section of the UCMJ that covered homosexual acts is no longer valid because of the laws that Clinton did pass. So no worries there. Once again you seem to think that because you are gay that gives you special privilages. It dosnt it never did and it NEVER will.

I could care less if you like men i dont care if you like sheep. Not my business and the govt dosnt care if you do either. So you seem to think that because you are gay that it gives you the right to carry a gun in places that clearly do not allow it.

also no special treatment there either. As far as my mentality reguarding my mental state let me remind you that even if we dont see eye to eye i would still step in to depend you if danger was emient.

So you want to call me a coward? Ok thats your right but everyone who KNOWS me will tell you otherwise and they will also tell you that in a bad situation they would be happy to have me there watching there back.

I never said you were bad news, I said you made bad choices nothing less nothing more. So before you start quoteing me get your facts straight. Just once id like to see you at atleast 1 meeting just once. I work 3 jobs and you dont sign my pay check but i sure as hell make the time to meet people and do what i believe in.

You seem to think i am out of line for calling you on what i do not believe in well thats my right and i fought for it and so did many others. so if you want to run around on your soap box about how you almost lost your life then fine by me i jus dont want to have to listen about it or read about it.

Had you been beaten up and hospitalized my mental state would have hunted down those who harmed you, But thats just not the case here. there is a map on this site that clearly shows who's cpl is legal were. I would hope that you looked at it before you went to CO but after all a legend like yourself in your own mind must have known this long before you went there right?

OR is this another one of your self indulgent crusaides because oh no your gay and it makes you a target. ever stop to think maybe its the way you act that directs attention to you?

In the end if you do not have what it takes to fire your weapon and take a human life then you are just another victim complete with a gun to use on its owner nothing more nothing less.

So maybe you should cowboy up and start acting like a man who can take care of himself instead of some skirt who needs to feel powerful because they have a gun.
BTW i have a midal and juicebox here for ya.

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first off Clinton passed a law a few years ago... "dont ask dont tell" must have forgotten about that now. Second of all do you really think you would be the only gay person in the military?

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10USC654 did not change the existence of Article 125. Every gay person, if they have any sort of relationship in any way, are at risk of Article 125 violation. They may not choose to enforce, but it still exists in black letter law, and can be brought back into full enforcement at any time.

The section of the UCMJ that covered homosexual acts is no longer valid because of the laws that Clinton did pass. So no worries there. Once again you seem to think that because you are gay that gives you special privilages. It dosnt it never did and it NEVER will.

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Article 125 is still valid Congressional law. Do you suggest that I lie, omit, and violate the law?

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spoken like a true skirt. If history has done anything its prove that people who play it on the safe side end up speaking german or japanese.

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I for one thank Lonnie for his actual service to the Washington gun community.

I'm also really sick of people who have served in the military that have some sort of entitlement attitude like jarhead here.

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jarhead1055 wrote:

spoken like a true skirt. If history has done anything its prove that people who play it on the safe side end up speaking german or japanese.

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jarhead, You are out of line here. I have met you and you are an upstanding guy. But your obsession with Lonnie is bordering on stalking. Your military service is not at issue here and neither is Lonnie's. OC is a problem in Denver. Lonnie has found an avenue and wishes to address that problem. I would expect you to defend his right to do so or at least get out of the way. You made your point long ago. It is clearly understood you have issues with Lonnie. Continuing to harasshim does not help your image or your cause. It also does not help OC. He, Lonnie, is trying to raise funds to fight an OC issue. You on the other hand are pushing a personal vendetta. Stop it, it is beneath you.

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irfner wrote:

jarhead1055 wrote:

spoken like a true skirt. If history has done anything its prove that people who play it on the safe side end up speaking german or japanese.

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jarhead, You are out of line here. I have met you and you are an upstanding guy. But your obsession with Lonnie is bordering on stalking. Your military service is not at issue here and neither is Lonnie's. OC is a problem in Denver. Lonnie has found an avenue and wishes to address that problem. I would expect you to defend his right to do so or at least get out of the way. You made your point long ago. It is clearly understood you have issues with Lonnie. Continuing to harasshim does not help your image or your cause. It also does not help OC. He, Lonnie, is trying to raise funds to fight an OC issue. You on the other hand are pushing a personal vendetta. Stop it, it is beneath you.

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I am not doing anything to the OC cause outside of this board. The truth will come out and dont be suprised when everyone finds out that lonnie has not told us the whole truth.

So Lonnie i along with others would like to see the police report and the damage to this accident that you got into that you almost died in. For some reason u think having a gun would have stoped this?

I have no reason to stalk lonnie he isnt my problem and i just dont like being mislead when it comes to people asking for money. So lonnie i almost die every day of my life so can i ask for money 2?

My image..... Anyone who really knows me knows who i am and they also know that i really dont care much what others think. They dont pay my bills and they dont control my life.

So lonnie i would also like to see the law suite paperwork for CO cause i have a hunch that you are going after them for money as well. Id hate to think that you would ask others for money so you could get money for yourself.

So yes you keep bring up that you will not lie or steal or cheat so i am waiting to see what exactly you have that proves your life was in such a danger that you have the right to sue anyone?

You were picked up at the airport by your friend yes? why didnt he bring you your gun when he came and got you? CO has nothing todo with your issues your just mad or scared and you want to take it out on someone else and try and benifit from it on a monitary level.

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:exclaim:OK, I'd say it's time to clear the air. This has been going on far too long. So, let's see if we can get some questions answered that would help us all to make sense of this.:exclaim:

First, Lonnie

• Did you present your WA drivers license and your FL CWP when you checked in to fly to Denver:question:
• Why haven't you renewed your CWP in WA:question:
• Since you travel to Denver on business often, why has this only become an issue now:question:
• IF SV-libertarian was right when he said, " And what about Seattle? That is a much bigger fish than those of us on OCDO. For starters you notice nothing is coming out of Seattle as far as a ban, because it won't work. It was simple barnstorming, plain and simple.
  
  This is something the NRA, GOA, 2nd Admendment Foundation, etc... would have to be tackling not a small handful of activists with no major backing...,"
  then why is it that this is a fight for a "small handful of activists, rather than a fight for some larger organization:question:
  

Second, Jarhead

• Are you more upset about Lonnie's lack of participation in the OC meets here in WA, or the fact that he is choosing to fight a fight in CO when you feel that his efforts could be better spent here:question:

The military issue is off-topic. While it's an interesting debate regarding whether or not gay people should join the military, following the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy and thereby denying themselves their own right to be who they are while doing any job, it's not part of this debate. :banghead:

:idea:The entire argument might be more poignant if we were talking about reciprocity and a state's--any state's--right to deny the 2nd Amendment to any law-abiding citizen--especially when that citizen has been licensed by another state to CC. While Colorado definitely has a problem, that doesn't negate Washington State's problems. Unfortunately, those problems are not being fixed, in many cases, by any letter writing.

As far as I know, there are only certain states, as it stands now, where my CWP is accepted, including my home state of Tennessee. And there are plenty of states where OC is all but banned, so that means that there are places where all of our civil rights are denied. Of course, this isn't right, but then there is the argument that charity starts at home.This is like a tennis match, which is nearly as exciting as golf. :uhoh:

Remember, think globally, act locally. Yes, it's a left-wing, tree-hugger saying, but I think it applies to the 2A issue, too.

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thewise1 wrote:

I for one thank Lonnie for his actual service to the Washington gun community.

I'm also really sick of people who have served in the military that have some sort of entitlement attitude like jarhead here.

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I can appriciate lonnie's service to the OCers in WA but what i am sick of is his actions tords CO its not WA and my military service was mine i am not entitled to anything.

Just as lonnie isnt entilted to anything else either. So when lonnie wants to produce all the docs that proves his case to the OC community then i will be more than happy to applogize and leave this alone.

I think if someone is asking for money then they have the obligation to provide all materials asked for.


Tell ya what, In the intrest of being fair. IF lonnie can produce evidence that makes his case i will personally pay for the filling for the courts. Now in order for this to be fair to all the board has to side with Lonnie and 100% agree that its all denvers fault that lonnie got into an accident in WA ST and almost died.

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May I call Troll? Well I don't care if I may or not, I'm going to: jarhead1055 is being a troll on this particular issue, and should be ignored.

Going to these so-called "meetings" does not an activist make. These meetings are just preaching to the choir. Social events. Being out, "in the field" carrying a gun for all to see, educating cops and the general public, and schooling various bureaucracies on the legality of open carry is effective activism, and Lonnie has done that.

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Troll????? not hardly but your entitled to your opinion, All i am asking for is proof and some accountability for the money and the whole story. Call me weird but its how i see things and i am not saying anyone else has to agree with me but i do believe that its a valid request.

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* Did you present your WA drivers license and your FL CWP when you checked in to fly to Denver

Why would SeaTac Airport give a damn about my Florida CWP? It's not like my airline was going to act as a gatekeeper to me carrying my pistol to Colorado.

* Why haven't you renewed your CWP in WA

1) I have. 2) What does that have to do with anything?

Since you travel to Denver on business often, why has this only become an issue now?

It was always an issue since the trips started 3 days after SB34 went into effect in Colorado in 2007, What makes it an issue to push forward is due to the Heller decision as well as the car ramming incident putting an :exclaim: on getting this resolved. I was going to ask for money even if the car ramming incident didn't happen.


* IF SV-libertarian was right when he said, " And what about Seattle? That is a much bigger fish than those of us on OCDO. For starters you notice nothing is coming out of Seattle as far as a ban, because it won't work. It was simple barnstorming, plain and simple.

This is something the NRA, GOA, 2nd Admendment Foundation, etc... would have to be tackling not a small handful of activists with no major backing...,"
then why is it that this is a fight for a "small handful of activists, rather than a fight for some larger organization

Interesting point. Right now, the vast majority of the money from the foundations, such as SAF, NRA Civil Rights Fund, etc, is focused on the really bad anti-gun states, such as Illinois, DC, California, New York. So unfortunately for me, they're a little tied up right now.

The entire argument might be more poignant if we were talking about reciprocity and a state's--any state's--right to deny the 2nd Amendment to any law-abiding citizen--especially when that citizen has been licensed by another state to CC. While Colorado definitely has a problem, that doesn't negate Washington State's problems. Unfortunately, those problems are not being fixed, in many cases, by any letter writing.

You're right about that. Neither the Washington State Legislature nor the Colorado Legislature are likely to fix the reciprocity mess, no matter how much gun owners in our states hound their Legislatures. We couldn't even get the Alien Firearms License situation fixed because the clock ran out in the State Senate, and at least in Washington that's probably the most emergency issue in terms of gun owners being denied their civil rights. Same with Colorado, which provisions are simple: You recognize ours, we recognize yours, but whoever has the licenses from those states must be resident of the license that one possesses. Both states have a lot in common: Anti-gun House, Senate, and Governor.

As for jarhead's accusations that I'm seeking to profit off of the lawsuit, you'll notice in the Goyke v. Toomer litigation that there's no asking of damages for the client, just the ability to apply for a Georgia Firearms License. Btw, jarhead, the Goyke litigation is your proof that you seek. Georgia doesn't have the non-resident license recognition issue either, because they recognize all out of state licenses that recognize theirs, as long as the holders are NOT Georgia residents. I begged and pleaded with the Senate sponsor of SB34 to follow the Georgia and Washington rule (residents of their own state must have said license from their home state) but he consistently refused to acknowledge further email after making a fix about newly arrived residents that I suggested.

If any of you want to do a little bit of "small time" activism, here is the Senate sponsor of SB07-34:

http://www.state.co.us/gov_dir/leg_dir/Senate/members/Sen11.htm

Personally, I don't think he can be convinced (as denying out of state reciprocity) but if you folks wanna hammer his email, go right ahead. Ask him if the state facing tens of thousands of dollars in litigation costs, which could pay for school textbooks for children in the state of Colorado (he is the appropriations committee chair and has to approve funds for lawsuit defense) is worth continuing to deny the residents of other states who don't recognize Colorado's license (for whatever reason) but have a perfectly valid license and training with the exception of having a wrong address on said license. Include wording from the Washington reciprocity law (RCW 9.41.073) as to how we fixed our residents from using out of state licenses to carry. He's the one that authored the original bill, and such, he may be able to reverse it.

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OK, here's why I asked about your two CWP's. According to the AG's website, we no longer have reciprocity with FL (http://www.atg.wa.gov/page.aspx?id=7772), so if you hadn't renewed your CWP here, I could see why the airline would have an issue. But, of course, airlines and TSA have issues with all sorts of things now. If the address on your license doesn't match the one the ticket was sent to, there could be problems. By that logic (which I realize is flawed and makes travel difficult at best), I can see why the submission of your FL CWP and your WA ID made for a raised eyebrow. I once had to wait three months to change my name just so that the airlines wouldn't have a fit, so the hassle is obvious to anyone who has traveled at all in the last 7 years.

However, as I said, I would think that the problem would be better addressed as an interstate problem for travelers in general, rather than being addressed as a specific Denver problem. I also don't see how, with the recent ruling on the DC ban, Denver's policy can hold up.

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scarlett1125,

I don't understand what relevance any CPL or CWP would have at checkin--you certainly don't need any permit to bring your firearms as checked baggage.

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deanf wrote:

May I call Troll? Well I don't care if I may or not, I'm going to: jarhead1055 is being a troll on this particular issue, and should be ignored.

Going to these so-called "meetings" does not an activist make. These meetings are just preaching to the choir. Social events. Being out, "in the field" carrying a gun for all to see, educating cops and the general public, and schooling various bureaucracies on the legality of open carry is effective activism, and Lonnie has done that.

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I was going to call troll, but you beat me to it.

Jarhead is a troll. Don't feed the trolls.

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My recollection is that Lonie presented both at check-in, which, I assume was because of the Denver OC ban. From what I recall of the legislation, he would have been in violation of the law had he had his gun and no CWP recognized by CO. I would be interested to find out how handguns carried into DC were handled prior to the Supreme Court decision. It seems to me that that decision alone should be enough to make all these city/county handgun bans go away, but I'm probably being idealistic.

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scarlett1125 wrote:

My recollection is that Lonie presented both at check-in, which, I assume was because of the Denver OC ban. From what I recall of the legislation, he would have been in violation of the law had he had his gun and no CWP recognized by CO. I would be interested to find out how handguns carried into DC were handled prior to the Supreme Court decision. It seems to me that that decision alone should be enough to make all these city/county handgun bans go away, but I'm probably being idealistic.

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That's incorrect. I never presented my Florida CWP to the check in agents at SeaTac. They don't care, they never will care, it's not their job.

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deanf wrote:

Being out, "in the field" carrying a gun for all to see, educating cops and the general public

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is exactly what I've seen happening at these events that you described as being purely social. There is strength in numbers, and that is part of the purpose for these events. Of course, that does not preclude anyone from doing the same on a daily basis, but setting aside time to OC in public with our families to dispel the myth of the evil gun owner/carrier is not, in my opinion, a purely social activity.