I have the taurus pt 1911 and i have to say, I LIKE IT .
I bought a Taurus PT 24/7 Pro in .40 cal about 6 months ago. My son bought the same thing but in the sub compact. This gun was $350. and I'm really blown away with the accuracy and reliability. I've shot at least 1,000 rounds through it and can't get it to jam once. And so far as the accuracy, I'm shooting a 12" x12" target board @ 100 yds. with every single round on the board and grouped nicely in the center. I bought brass and have only shot reloads through it, but even so it should have jammed at least a couple of times I would think.And it has a trigger that allows you to strike the primer over and over again without having to do anything but continue pulling the trigger. I really like that feature as it gives you the opportunity to clear a mis-fire if a bad primer or shallow seated one ever occures by just forcing it to fire which usually will fire if punched again. Dove tail front and rear sights that can be fine tuned. Its quick and easy to break down for cleaning, and its nice and light weight. And I can use the standard 10 rd., 14 rd., 15 rd., or up to a 30 round clip if I so choose. I found glass beaded clips for it, 2 for $18. for the 15 rd. and 2 for $24. for the 30 rd.. I honestly have to say of all the auto loaders I own, I own at least 1 ofthe really good ones, this is the highest quality one I think. Compared to these of which still hold their own for obvious reasons, and I don't have anything bad to say about how they've treated me.I wouldn't sell any of the following ones I own, just wouldn't be hesitant to put them up against the Taurus as follows:Sigs (3), Glocks (had 5) currently 3, Beretta (1), Ruger (1), HK (2), Browning (2), Walther (1), Springfield 1911 & XD 40, had2 Kahr K-9 sold 1, S&W (2) 4566 & SW99 compact and acouple dozen or so mid range quality autoloading pieces that don't really belong in this comparison.My wife wants me to buy her the sub compact as she really likes the one my son has. Speaking of wife, I got a Sig. for my wife, good trade!
I have the taurus pt 1911 and i have to say, I LIKE IT .
Taurus seems to make a quality product... overall. I intend to get one of their "Judge' series.45/410's for my wife to OC soon. The ideaof 3 .35 cal balls (410/000 buck) exiting the barrel at once appeals to me for a self defense dubble actionweapon.
I have the pt145 and I love it
Rebel: I am not sure why but the "Judge" fascinates me. I'm not quite sure how I would load it! Two 410's & 3 .45Colt. the reverse? Since most shootings (per FBI) follow the "Rule of 3's", I figure two 410's to the face at anything under 10 feet, would mess up a BG's day. Especially if followed by a .45 if needed. I don't think I'd carry it as a primary(thinkin like an old cop again). I had a M85 and a 608, and loved them both.
Well... a .45LC (Long Colt) ain't no slouch of a cartridge. It's a big, heavy lead bullet that does a LOT of damage. 410 000 buckshot will also ruin yer day. 3X .35 cal lead balls ea. I'd carry that for a Primary. I've seen the video... and this thing makes a mess out of a target within 8-10'. I think I'd load 3x 410 and2x.45 in order. Almost makes ya wanna carry one of these 'n one of whatever else.
I hand load for the 45 LC and with the 300 gr.JHP I'd be afraid of putting the BG through the wall thus costing me a lot of home repair reconstruction. But no doubt about it, this would get the job done in any circumstance. I think I would alternate every other one .410, 45LC, .410 and so. After about the second round the BG would be praying for death and also wondering what hell is going on and why one round has put a hole big enough to drive a truck through and the next one completely blew his leg off.
I've always said I'd rather be shot by a single projectile over a shotgun load any day! Not that I'd want to be shot at all, but I have been,about 35 or 40 years ago I was shot by a 22 mag. HP and it hurt like hell. It shot me through the crotch of my pants grazing my nut sack. I was about 14 or 15 years old hunting rabbits with my brother in law and dropped the gun, a Ruger. Back then my name was Michael, now everyone calls me Michelle. Anyway, that was before the improvements that prevented a discharge from impact on the hammer. It hurt so bad that I passed out cold, maybe from fear that I had lost my nuts, maybe from pain, I don't honestly know! The good news is I was sore for about a week and didn't suffer any permanent damage a result of that incident.
'Just came back from the Pima County Fairgrounds gunshow. Damn near bought a 'Judge'... long barrel. This thing's BIG. The short version's long as my SAA .45 Vaquero. I dunno what kind'a holster will fit this thing.
Rebel: RE: Holster - JUDGE go to simplyrugged.com
I saw 3 of those at Spragues, you know, our only gun shop in Yuma. I agree the big one is as big as a Vaquero, but the short one looked pretty nice so far as size is concerned. And honestly speaking, I don't see how you can get something that offersa package like that much smaller.
I think if I were the one carrying a self defense weapon like that I would load it with 3" magnums shooting BB shot to increase the damage done rather than 00 buck or similar shot. I would rather do an extreme amount of damage vs a couple of holes that just might miss the vitals and certainly not inflict as much pain, but I bet 30 or so pellets would. After all if your going to use 00buck why even use a shotgun shell at all?I use BB in my turkey hunting loads and it seems to be enough shot to deliver a fairly good pattern, while inflicting some deep wounds.
000 Buck... = 3x .35 cal balls pretty much close together. Is therea 410 magnum? I'm not shootin' turkeys...
Indeed there is. It's a 3" shell instead of the 2 1/2" or 2 3/4" shells. I've hunted turkey with them, successfully I might add. I would just think that the BB which is a load of .18" copper plated or not, pellets. There are approx. 25 pellets in the 2 3/4" shells, probably 21 in the 2 1/2" shells. I alsoreload #4 buck whenI can't find the BB shot, it's pretty close in size.
I understand that Taurus has introduced/updated "Judge", now will take 3"
.410 shells in 6" bbl.
Also updated M85 to 856 - six round, total magniseium, blue steel, stainless
That 3" is definitely the ticket. I certainly wouldn't want to be at the receiving end of any .410, but the 3" does deliver a much harder hitting load of what ever you choose. And if you buy one of those inexpensive Lee Load All shot shell reloader, you can make some very nasty reloads for the .410 application. I have hunted with the .410 off and on for years and also chronograph everything I shoot and the reloads are much, much, higher velocity than the factory stuff hands down. I'm getting way over 1600 fps vs 1250 or so from the factory. And cost, don't get me started, .410 is the most expensive shotgun to shoot and reloading it save a bunch of denero as well.
This hotload stuff is all well and good but we're talkin' about a defensive handgun which may require more than one round fired with mimimal recovery time... Quite possibly one-handed.
Practicality is the primary concern.
I understand and respect that position. I'm a little more adapted to recoil and in fact shoot the hot stuff one handed with no problems. To each their own.
Thanks for the info. I wondered about reloading the .410
Does any one recall if Taurus increased the capacity from 5 to 6 on the Judge??
I know on the "new" 856 (read 85-6) .38 Spl, cap. is 6 and the STEEL models are +P rated (the one made out of magnes.) uses STD loads ONLY
The first hand gun I owned was a PT-111. Had it for a few months...decided it was junk due to the trigger pull, feed problems with Speer GD 147gr HP's, and the ergos. Decided to get a g19. Well worth the extra 200usd. IMHO.
GAMESTALKER: G' Morn re: you're getting 1600 fps vs 1450 with factory loads in the Judge shooting .410. Any thoughts on a post-shooting investigation and some ADA screaming, "you couldn't use recommended factory loads; you had to increase the charge to insure death", or other such question?
Having seen these (I assume) side, by side,the 3 " versus the 6";If you were making a recommendation, would you recommend 3" for CC, and the 6" for OC?
Interested in your thoughts?
District Atty's vs 'trick' rounds: In the 'event'.... (the one we all hope never happens) 'n having been a cop with some extensive court time. These DA's will play the 'Rambo' angle to the hilt. Discover WHAT types of ammo your local LEO's are authorized to use. I s'pose some jurisdictions don't 'specify' what's carried in the duty gun... but some require 'Departmentally Issued' ammo... period. There's no personal substitutes allowed. 'Having been involved in a 'Police' shooting'... 'first thing the IID (Internal Investigation Division) dude at the scene did was check what my pistol was loaded with and how many rounds I'd fired (one... @ 46') Ennyhoo... all this fancy hi-powered expanding bullet stuff may give y'all some warm fuzzies... but (I cannot emphasize this enuff...) You... as a 'civilian'... shoot to 'STOP' the attacker... ALWAYS. All this 'shoot to kill' stuff sounds very macho 'til you're sittin' on the stand 'n some yahoo lawyer is pickin' your bones... AND THEY WILL! Juries generally are gun-stupid for the most part (cow brains) 'n will tend to side with the person gettin' shot by such, no matter if they deserved it or not. Prosecuters will produce all sorts of grisly photo's of the 'damage' to your detriment. I've seen this done where a dubble barreled shotgun was used at close range... (both barrels at once). Much ado about why 'both barrels were used'... heedless of the double triggers jerked in haste. As tho the shooter fired each individually. Also WHY the weapon was loaded with 000 Buckshot... rather than 'birdshot'. Not that it would'a mattered much at the range. Prosecutors ain't all that gun savvy (or friendly) either. They're LAWYERS... generally LIBERALS... employed by LIBERALS.For this reason alone...I carry nuthin' but 'plain Jane' out of the box ammo. I do carry HP's in the 9x18mm Mak... but FMJ ball or bare lead in the other pistols. (lead in the SAA .45)
For the Taurus Judge... 000 Buck is gonna make a mess... and those .45LC lead bullets will too. The idea is to STOP an attacker... a human... not a Cape Buffalo.
Having shot a few cape (Water) buffalo (nam), I'd be a little reluctant to set out after one with either a .410 or a 45LC. RE: "mess"- If I am required to take the BG's head OFF to protect my life; the mess isn't going to phase me, and a good defense atty know how to disarm the "you used too much bullet" or "you could have only meant to kill this person" One argument goes, if you are going quail hunting, you pretty much know which "sporting weapon" to use. If you arm yourself for the defense of yourself or your family, you can't easily anticipate what gun/ammo combination is best, can you? You can't foretell how you will be attacked, how many attackers there will be, etc. Isn't this true?
I've been involved in dozens of shoot reviews (where I was not involved in the shoot) Don't give the DA some "mystical power" that he actually lacks. An educated/trained shooter knows more than your average DA does about firearm and self defense. If you face a DA with a reputation for knowing "guns"; plan for it by reviewing what you know. Do some research!
We have an adversarial legal system! Some fear their legal adversary more than they feared their criminal adversary. If you didn't let one intimidate you; don't let the other.
First .410 in the face, then 5 .45LCs any place you choose. Should get the job done...
"For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V
You said it all! Our extensive knowledge is what will shut down any useful attempt by a DA to suggest we used too much fire power. And as you stated, what is too much if the circumstances are not of prior knowledge to a would be victim? Impossible to know, but certainly possible to prepare for. I never think, is this too much fire power? or will this make too big of a hole? How ridiculous, I''d much rather be talking with a DA or facing a grand jury, than laying in a hospital bed cripple or possibly 6 feet under. I don't know if I've mentioned my personal experiences over the last 40 years or so but they have been extreme, life threatening. When I was about 12 years old I was riding my bike to a fishing spot several miles from my home when I encountered a man in a truck who stopped me to ask directions or something casual as it seemed. But I wasskeptical at 5:00 AM of his intentions so I kept my distance from his truck window. Well, he jumped out and came at me with a knife, and on my side was a 22 pistol he didn't see in the dark of the morning. While getting away from my bike so I could move about freely I drew the gun in a major panic, being only 12 years old, and I yelled at him to freeze or I'll shoot! HE just about crapped his pants right there, begged me to not kill him. I won't finish that story for obvious reasons.
My sister and I were hitch hiking home from the beach when I was 16, she was 19. we were picked up by a guy in a van and within 10 minutes of getting into his van he pulled a knife and put it to my sisters throat and ordered her to take off her clothes while we were exiting the highway down a remote wooded area. He told me to not do anything or he would kill her. Knowing my sis had a gun in her purse which was just an easy reach for me. I waited till he was distracted for an instant as he was still driving and grabbed the purse at which point he grabbed desperately trying to stop me obviously thinking there was something of importance in that purse.I successfullygrabbed the gun out of her purse and pointed it at him, but he was doubtful I would use it and continued to reach for it saying you don't know how to kill anyone and probably don't know how to use that gun. As he reached for it I let a round go, he started nearly instantly crying and begging for his life while covering the hole in his shoulder to stop the bleeding, must have hit an artery. Anyway, I made him drive us to a well populated area and offered him the chance to call the police or just deal with his circumstances on his own. I was young and really didn't know what to do other than just defend myself, but I have never hurt someone unless it was absolutely necessary and no other choice existed. These are only two of my more than average encounters. I don't know why I've had so many encounters with sick and dangerous people in all the years I've been alive, but I thank God I was able to defend myself and others who would have certainly faced deadly circumstances other wise. Judge me or not, but I don't feel I did anything wrong in defending myself or others as I have had to do. Maybe because I'm always aware of my surroundings is a contributing factor to why I've had so many encounters of a deadly nature. I certainly don't look for these circumstances, I just happen to see them or I'm chosen as a victim, maybe because of my small size, I'm 5' 4" and only weigh 115 lbs. and I'm now an elderly man. One would think I'm looking for the opportunity to use my weapon if I were to take the time to tell of all the deadly encounters I've been forced to respond to with deadly defense, but again, that is most certainly not the case, by any means. I would do anything to avoid these extremely frightening, stressful, circumstances that leave me almost unable to stand from the fear and shock of the encounter with the sick, dangerous individuals who have no consciences or regard for human life. I've thrown up following some of my bad experiences from the fear and terrible shock. I'm really surprised I haven't had a heart attack in some of these encounters, I'm a sensitive individual.I was attacked about 2 months ago in my own neighborhood by 2 gang type guys who ended up running and screaming for their lives, but not until they had hurt me pretty badly, catching me unaware of their being hidden in a spot waiting to ambush me. Again, I thank God I was wearing as I always am.
Gamestalker: Sure glad you made it thru to be here with us!
sincerely - alec
Well thank you Alec for the sentiment. I'll tell you, it's a serious reality for me to carry a means of self defense on me and under my pillow at all times. I have such difficulty with those that simply can't relate to how important it is to me personally to be prepared to defend my life or another. I'm not real patient with the liberal portion of population who feels our law enforcement is all that we need. Don't misunderstand me, I more than appreciate what they do for us but unfortunately they are more likely to not be there in a life threatening situation than to be there because of the laws of average, certainly not because of there failure in some way. I have a sister who thinks I'm excessive and obsessive compulsive and thinks I'm rather paranoid, obviously not the one of whom I saved because I accessed her handgun in time of need. My brother is not believing of the incidents I've encountered and thinks I've either invented these incidents or exaggerated them, and is also the type of individual who will simply walk away from another person who is being robbed, raped, murdered, being seriously beat, I think you get the idea, he is not going to get involved to any, and I mean any extent. I have never seen him ever stand up for the right cause or in short be a man. I'm not ashamed to say he is my Brother, but I know I can't count on him to watch my back or support me in any situation.
One of my Son's who have deployed to Afghanistan and Iraqrecently returned and we all went out to havea nice dinnerin celebration. The service and meal were terrible andI complained to the manager. My brother ask me to step outside following my discussion with the manager to tell me I terriblyembarrassed him by making an issue of the bad service and food. He was very much alone in his opinion as the rest of my family thanked me for addressing the situation of which I did in a respectful and professional manner. I did at that time tell him I was ashamed of his inappropriate complaint, and that it personally insults my Son forhis service to our country.
Back in the 1960s my Brother received his draft notice and through some strings and money he managed to get his doctor to prescribe a couple of meds that made him appear to have a heart problem that kept the Army from accepting him. That is shameful if anything is! I and others may not have agreed about that particular conflict, but to run and hide basically from your responsibility to our nation is shameful at the very least. It is this mind set that is threatening our nation, and the liberty we represent throughout the world.
Again, I apologize for my long winded response, but I'm compelled to fully express my love for the United States and what it means to be American and the responsibility of being an American. No one should like war, but it is how we won, and have maintained our free way of life, and must not be forgotten, ever!