Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Open Carry in front of Obama Rally - Chesapeake Thursday Evening

  1. #1
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,961

    Post imported post

    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Virginia USA, ,
    Posts
    1,688

    Post imported post

    Be mindful of the "1000 foot" federal law for those w/o a permit.

  3. #3
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849

    Post imported post

    hsmith wrote:
    Be mindful of the "1000 foot" federal law for those w/o a permit.
    If you are speaking about carrying within 1000 feet of a school in Virginia, I'm pretty sure there is no such law anymore. If I'm not mistaken, you can take a walk on the sidewalk right by a school in session OC'ing, no permit of course, of CC'ing with a permit.

    If this is wrong, please someone correct me, but I think it is correct.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    arlington,va, ,
    Posts
    387

    Post imported post

    SouthernBoy wrote:
    hsmith wrote:
    Be mindful of the "1000 foot" federal law for those w/o a permit.
    If you are speaking about carrying within 1000 feet of a school in Virginia, I'm pretty sure there is no such law anymore. If I'm not mistaken, you can take a walk on the sidewalk right by a school in session OC'ing, no permit of course, of CC'ing with a permit.

    If this is wrong, please someone correct me, but I think it is correct.

    The 1000 feet is from Federal Gun Free Safety Zone Act rewritten in 1996. Concealed carry permit holders are exempted, but ONLY if they have a permit from the state where the school is. So if you are in a state other than where your permit is from, but it has reciprocity, you are illegal within 1000 feet of a school.

    See: http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/batf_school_zone.pdffor a letter from the ATF in 2002 on the school zone issues with out of state permits.

    I don't see any information about the GFSZA being modified after being re-written in 1996. Not to say it isn't out there though, corrections are welcome as always.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hampton Roads, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    172

    Post imported post

    The Secret Service Protection Detail may supercede any and all regulations. I think this might just not be the right time for OC or CC unless you are willing to be tossed, cuffed, questioned and ultimately released.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    830

    Post imported post

    tripledipper wrote:
    The Secret Service Protection Detail may supercede any and all regulations. I think this might just not be the right time for OC or CC unless you are willing to be tossed, cuffed, questioned and ultimately released.
    maybe thundar will become the OCDO version of "don't tase me bro" it might garner some good press.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Virginia USA, ,
    Posts
    1,688

    Post imported post

    Thundar, this thread we all discussed it, look for LEO's post http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...school+federal

  8. #8
    Regular Member Virginiaplanter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    402

    Post imported post

    How does somebody know they are 1,000 feet from the school and not 99'11"? If there are two schools 500 feet apart, where does the measuring begin? From the corner of the first school or from the front door of either school if they are built parallel to each other and you are standing in front or in back of the school?


    Do you see the legal flaw in the law?

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Virginia USA, ,
    Posts
    1,688

    Post imported post

    Virginiaplanter wrote:
    How does somebody know they are 1,000 feet from the school and not 99'11"? If there are two schools 500 feet apart, where does the measuring begin? From the corner of the first school or from the front door of either school if they are built parallel to each other and you are standing in front or in back of the school?


    Do you see the legal flaw in the law?
    If you couldn't tell 99' 11'' from 1000' you might have a problem :-p


    but i agree with your typo. it is a stupid law.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Right Coast
    Posts
    118

    Post imported post

    I would strongly advise everyone who is not active law enforcement to NOT ATTEMPT approaching the metaltometers at the entrance of the rally while armed. Any type of carrying of weapons by non-LEO will have to be done outside the security perimeter that is established by the Secret Service. I know it sucks and agree it sucks but thats one of the rules of attending Presidential rallies. Don't even think about doing it!!

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    80

    Post imported post

    For the sake of clarification, you would not want to walk through the metal detectors with a gun or some other weapon either. Even if you're law enforcement, if you're not working the event then they will have no way to distinguish you from anyone else. Otherwise, have fun.

    I've been to publc events for Presidents Ford (1976) and Clinton (1996). The detectors are so far away from the podiums that you can't even see the stage from the security area.

    What you want is a group of four or five OCers congregating near one of those TV satellite trucks. The TV trucks is where you want to be, not near the Secret Service or the candidate's political supporters.

    :celebrate

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Right Coast
    Posts
    118

    Post imported post

    Actually, there are ways to identify active LEO from others at events such as this but i'm not going to go into that since its a public forum. My advice is to stay away from the security perimeter ARMED if you aren't LEO and are attending the rally.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    80

    Post imported post

    It is a classic news story when some sheriff's deputy who is not working stumbles into the Secret Security people and makes a mess. I recall once back in the Carter Administration when a guy with a carry permit asked where he should check his gun before taking the White House tour. It caused a few minutes of confusion, but eventually he made it through.

    :celebrate


    They have it all arranged so that the security is far, far away from the dignitaries, so there's never a risk there. But the satellite trucks are full of electronics that cost a fortune and aren't made to be shot, either intentionally or accidentally. OCing near a satellite truck doesn't worry the Secret Service or the candidate's supporters, but one accidental discharge can cause about $750,000 in damage.
    :celebrate


  14. #14
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849

    Post imported post

    mkl wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    hsmith wrote:
    Be mindful of the "1000 foot" federal law for those w/o a permit.
    If you are speaking about carrying within 1000 feet of a school in Virginia, I'm pretty sure there is no such law anymore. If I'm not mistaken, you can take a walk on the sidewalk right by a school in session OC'ing, no permit of course, of CC'ing with a permit.

    If this is wrong, please someone correct me, but I think it is correct.

    The 1000 feet is from Federal Gun Free Safety Zone Act rewritten in 1996. Concealed carry permit holders are exempted, but ONLY if they have a permit from the state where the school is. So if you are in a state other than where your permit is from, but it has reciprocity, you are illegal within 1000 feet of a school.

    See: http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/batf_school_zone.pdffor a letter from the ATF in 2002 on the school zone issues with out of state permits.

    I don't see any information about the GFSZA being modified after being re-written in 1996. Not to say it isn't out there though, corrections are welcome as always.
    Thanks for your response. May I ask this, then? What about a Virginia resident taking a walk (perhaps walking his dog) past a school while the school is in normal session, and this resident is open carrying his weapon.. not on school property. I believe LEO 229 once said that this was fine and since no permits are required in Virginia for OC, you would not even need any sort of ID.

    Do you have any knowledge of this? One of the posters gave several examples of how someone may not even know how far they are from a school while carrying. This is very possible since schools are all over the place, in residential areas as well as being close to commercial areas.




    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Virginia USA, ,
    Posts
    1,688

    Post imported post

    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Thanks for your response. May I ask this, then? What about a Virginia resident taking a walk (perhaps walking his dog) past a school while the school is in normal session, and this resident is open carrying his weapon.. not on school property. I believe LEO 229 once said that this was fine and since no permits are required in Virginia for OC, you would not even need any sort of ID.

    Do you have any knowledge of this? One of the posters gave several examples of how someone may not even know how far they are from a school while carrying. This is very possible since schools are all over the place, in residential areas as well as being close to commercial areas.



    And that is why it is a terrible law. Even a quick "thinking through it" comes up with so many vague "could happens." Hell, I am currently sitting 1500ft from a school, if I got in my car and drove over 501ft and didn't have a permit I would be breaking the law!

    It really needs to be repealed.

    AFAWK (as far as we know) - it is a "tack on" law, where you have committed other crimes, they will tack this on to add more charges to your case. Apparently no one has ever been just chaged with this.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,961

    Post imported post

    tripledipper wrote:
    The Secret Service Protection Detail may supercede any and all regulations. I think this might just not be the right time for OC or CC unless you are willing to be tossed, cuffed, questioned and ultimately released.
    Citation?

    The Secret Servicedoes not have any supra legal powers. They must operate within the bounds of the law. Lex Rex.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Right Coast
    Posts
    118

    Post imported post

    Presidential rallies at this point in time (within 120 days of elections) become National Security Events therefore USSS has control of all things inside the perimeter. You won't get passed the metaltometers while armed if you aren't active LEO so don't even bother trying unless you want a lot of NEGATIVE attention. Presidential rallies are NOT the proper place to try and make a statement about OC. It just gives a negative impression of OCers to the public. If you try to break the perimeter while armed you WILL be arrested. Warning to the wise. Don't do it at Presidential rallies this close to an election. USSS authorization to direct NSE's falls under PDD-62, which has since been codified into 18 USC 3056. Breaking a USSS Security Perimeter is chargeable under 18 USC 1752 and is punishable by up to 10 years in Federal prison and/or fines if the violator is in possession of a firearm. If no firearm possessed, then its imprisonment up to 1 year and/or fines.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hampton Roads, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    172

    Post imported post

    So, who took a collar? Anybody? I don't think so. LRS should be listened to, very carefully.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Virginia USA, ,
    Posts
    1,688

    Post imported post

    LRS76251 wrote:
    Presidential rallies at this point in time (within 120 days of elections) become National Security Events therefore USSS has control of all things inside the perimeter. You won't get passed the metaltometers while armed if you aren't active LEO so don't even bother trying unless you want a lot of NEGATIVE attention. Presidential rallies are NOT the proper place to try and make a statement about OC. It just gives a negative impression of OCers to the public. If you try to break the perimeter while armed you WILL be arrested. Warning to the wise. Don't do it at Presidential rallies this close to an election. USSS authorization to direct NSE's falls under PDD-62, which has since been codified into 18 USC 3056. Breaking a USSS Security Perimeter is chargeable under 18 USC 1752 and is punishable by up to 10 years in Federal prison and/or fines if the violator is in possession of a firearm. If no firearm possessed, then its imprisonment up to 1 year and/or fines.
    He doesn't have to break perimeter to protest. I see nothing wrong with OC'ing and protesting.



  20. #20
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844

    Post imported post

    hsmith wrote:
    He doesn't have to break perimeter to protest. I see nothing wrong with OC'ing and protesting.

    1+
    I know someone from this board that CC'd at a McCain event in VA without issues.
    No, it wasn't me.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Right Coast
    Posts
    118

    Post imported post

    That event fell outside the 120 day rule.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •