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Seattle Municiple Building - no gun policy

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xiphoris

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Today I happened to have business in the Seattle Municiple Building (I think that's what it's called -- the tower with a slanty top just north of the Columbia Tower). I asked and was told by security at their front desk told me that they disallow guns in the building. I asked if it was a publicly owned building and they responded in the affirmative.

Is this a legitimate carrying ban or a violation of pre-emption?
 
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Bear 45/70

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xiphoris wrote:
Today I happened to have business in the Seattle Municiple Building (I think that's what it's called -- the tower with a slanty top just north of the Columbia Tower). I asked security at the front desk about their gun policy and was told that no guns are allowed in the building. I also asked if it was a publicly owned building and they responded in the affirmative.

Is this a legitimate carrying ban or a violation of pre-emption?
Click to expand...
Only if there are courts held in the building or a jail and then only certain parts would be off limits. Otherwise once again the City of Seattle cheats, like most governments do.
 
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BlaineG

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Mayor Knuckles still thinks his silly "decree" of no guns on city property holds water.....It's been a couple monthes, I wonder why no one has challanged this one; it's cut and dried illegal for him to do that.....
 
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xiphoris

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That's what I suspected. It does not have those things inside it AFAIK -- it has plenty of regular businesses like gyms.

Alright, I am going to contact the building administration, using something similar to what jbone sent in this thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/14421.html

Hopefully that will get some traction. They should at least have a written policy we can read, yes?

If they are not willing to change policy voluntarily, what's the next step?
 
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xiphoris

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BlaineG wrote:
Mayor Knuckles still thinks his silly "decree" of no guns on city property holds water.....It's been a couple monthes, I wonder why no one has challanged this one; it's cut and dried illegal for him to do that.....
Click to expand...
Perhaps it's time to test it? OC group visit to the Municipal Building?
 
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xiphoris

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BlaineG wrote:
Mayor Knuckles still thinks his silly "decree" of no guns on city property holds water.....It's been a couple monthes, I wonder why no one has challanged this one; it's cut and dried illegal for him to do that.....
Click to expand...
Did his decree cause an actual Seattle City Ordinance to be passed? His decree just asks city employees to design and draft such an ordinance. Is anything actually in effect yet?
 
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BlaineG

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xiphoris wrote:
BlaineG wrote:
Mayor Knuckles still thinks his silly "decree" of no guns on city property holds water.....It's been a couple monthes, I wonder why no one has challanged this one; it's cut and dried illegal for him to do that.....
Click to expand...
Did his decree cause an actual Seattle City Ordinance to be passed? His decree just asks city employees to design and draft such an ordinance. Is anything actually in effect yet?
Click to expand...
I think (uhoh) that even though the different departments have not submitted their plans, that most of the security and managers on the properties are acting like it has taken effect...... I just don't go to Seattle anymore. I actually stopped going to play with a Concert Band that I've played with for 11 years. I will avoid spending any money or going to Seattle or King county at all costs....
 
jbone

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xiphoris,

Sent you a PM of the letter Hammer and I sent to Skagit County for same violation in thier Court Buildings.
 
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Mike

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xiphoris wrote:
Today I happened to have business in the Seattle Municiple Building (I think that's what it's called -- the tower with a slanty top just north of the Columbia Tower). I asked and was told by security at their front desk told me that they disallow guns in the building. I asked if it was a publicly owned building and they responded in the affirmative.

Is this a legitimate carrying ban or a violation of pre-emption?
Click to expand...

So you asked an employee a legal question and got a bad answer - it's not a preemption violation for a random employee to make a mistake of law or lie to you.
 
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XD45PlusP

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xiphoris wrote:
Today I happened to have business in the Seattle Municiple Building (I think that's what it's called -- the tower with a slanty top just north of the Columbia Tower). I asked and was told by security at their front desk told me that they disallow guns in the building. I asked if it was a publicly owned building and they responded in the affirmative.

Is this a legitimate carrying ban or a violation of pre-emption?
Click to expand...

Ummmm ok, so you asked? Why would you do that? Just out of the blue? Was there a sign? Remind me again why you asked..... There is no jail, police, or court facilities in this building. Even if there was a sign, it holds no weight whatsoever.


Ever heard of "Dont Ask Dont Tell"

PS, the city of seattle owns this building.

XD
 
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xiphoris

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So you asked an employee a legal question and got a bad answer - it's not a preemption violation for a random employee to make a mistake of law or lie to you.
Click to expand...
He was the front security. By his answer, he would take action against someone entering the building open carrying, in violation of the person's rights and state pre-emption. This has not actually happened to me, of course, which is why I said I am going to follow up with the building administration.

As to the question about why I asked, the answer is that I would rather have a discussion with the building administration and convince them to change their policy, than by walking into the building carrying and being arrested. At that point I have no choice but a lawsuit to change their minds. I would rather avoid one.

I might still attempt that approach, open carrying into the building. I thought it would be a cute trick to concealed-carry into the building, go about my business, then right before I leave, convert to open-carry. Walk out past the guards, see what happens!

My thinking is that they'd have a greater chance to win against me by preventing me from entering via trespass laws (even though since this is a public building they can't), than by attempting to arrest me while I'm already inside, obviously on legitimate business, and causing trouble for no one, and on my way out.

But that's why I'm here asking for advice. I want to take the approach most likely to achieve a positive result.
 
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Mike

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xiphoris wrote:
So you asked an employee a legal question and got a bad answer - it's not a preemption violation for a random employee to make a mistake of law or lie to you.
Click to expand...
He was the front security. By his answer, he would take action against someone entering the building open carrying, in violation of the person's rights and state pre-emption. This has not actually happened to me, of course, which is why I said I am going to follow up with the building administration.

As to the question about why I asked, the answer is that I would rather have a discussion with the building administration and convince them to change their policy, than by walking into the building carrying and being arrested. At that point I have no choice but a lawsuit to change their minds. I would rather avoid one.

I might still attempt that approach, open carrying into the building. I thought it would be a cute trick to concealed-carry into the building, go about my business, then right before I leave, convert to open-carry. Walk out past the guards, see what happens!

My thinking is that they'd have a greater chance to win against me by preventing me from entering via trespass laws (even though since this is a public building they can't), than by attempting to arrest me while I'm already inside, obviously on legitimate business, and causing trouble for no one, and on my way out.

But that's why I'm here asking for advice. I want to take the approach most likely to achieve a positive result.
Click to expand...
By asking them, you cede the power - don't ask, don't tell. You know the law, you can carry there.
 
amlevin

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Bear 45/70 wrote:
If it was me, I would contact Randy Loun the local gun guy attorney.

Randy Loun of

Loun & Tyner

509-4th Street
Suite 6
Bremerton, WA 98337-1401
(360) 377-7678

rloun@hotmail.com
Click to expand...

From Martindale-Hubbell (Profiles of US Lawyers)

"

Randy W. Loun


Bremerton, Washington
(Kitsap Co.)









Visibility Rankings

#2 out of 44 lawyers in Bremerton, Washington

#126,807 out of 892,553 total lawyers Overall

His "visibility" rating is in the top 14% of all Lawyers rated.

JUst a little FYI for those looking for an attorney.
 
just_a_car

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amlevin wrote:
Randy W. Loun
Bremerton, Washington
(Kitsap Co.)

Visibility Rankings

#2 out of 44 lawyers in Bremerton, Washington

#126,807 out of 892,553 total lawyers Overall

His "visibility" rating is in the top 14% of all Lawyers rated.

JUst a little FYI for those looking for an attorney.
Click to expand...
That's because Randy's made of "Awesome" and "Win". :p
 
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