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Thread: A "warrants alarm" question

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    Campaign Veteran Bookman's Avatar
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    While reading the thread concerning protecting your OC weapon I came across the following comment (emphasis mine):

    "While in-line at stores and such, I'll always have a "nervous fidget" going on so that I can always continuously be scanning 360 degrees around me. This ends up turning into a little bit of a two-step and keeps my gun from staying stagnant as well. And moving targets are tougher to get! Never get "comfortable" or lazy while in public and OCing."

    Looking at the two areas in bold, is this behavior enough to "warrant alarm" in the eyes of the law? (Through direct observation by the LEO; NOT by a phone call)

    I fully support our 2A rights, but I have to admit that someone doing what appears to be a methamphetamine shuffle:what: while carrying a weapon would make me just a tad nervous.
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

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    Bookman wrote:
    While reading the thread concerning protecting your OC weapon I came across the following comment (emphasis mine):

    "While in-line at stores and such, I'll always have a "nervous fidget" going on so that I can always continuously be scanning 360 degrees around me. This ends up turning into a little bit of a two-step and keeps my gun from staying stagnant as well. And moving targets are tougher to get! Never get "comfortable" or lazy while in public and OCing."

    Looking at the two areas in bold, is this behavior enough to "warrant alarm" in the eyes of the law? (Through direct observation by the LEO; NOT by a phone call)

    I fully support our 2A rights, but I have to admit that someone doing what appears to be a methamphetamine shuffle:what: while carrying a weapon would make me just a tad nervous.
    I guess it would be up to a Jury to decide. And take my word for it the Prosecution would definitely eliminate any CPL / NRA potential jurors during jury selection.

    I would definitely call the above highlighted action "out of the ordinary".

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    Ravenhawk wrote:
    Bookman wrote:
    While reading the thread concerning protecting your OC weapon I came across the following comment (emphasis mine):

    "While in-line at stores and such, I'll always have a "nervous fidget" going on so that I can always continuously be scanning 360 degrees around me. This ends up turning into a little bit of a two-step and keeps my gun from staying stagnant as well. And moving targets are tougher to get! Never get "comfortable" or lazy while in public and OCing."

    Looking at the two areas in bold, is this behavior enough to "warrant alarm" in the eyes of the law? (Through direct observation by the LEO; NOT by a phone call)

    I fully support our 2A rights, but I have to admit that someone doing what appears to be a methamphetamine shuffle:what: while carrying a weapon would make me just a tad nervous.
    I guess it would be up to a Jury to decide. And take my word for it the Prosecution would definitely eliminate any CPL / NRA potential jurors during jury selection.

    I would definitely call the above highlighted action "out of the ordinary".
    I agree. That behavior would definitely be tweaking my radar. That's why I asked.
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

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    Bookman wrote:
    Looking at the two areas in bold, is this behavior enough to "warrant alarm" in the eyes of the law? (Through direct observation by the LEO; NOT by a phone call)

    I fully support our 2A rights, but I have to admit that someone doing what appears to be a methamphetamine shuffle:what: while carrying a weapon would make me just a tad nervous.
    Bookman, Although you are to be commended for staying alert of your surroundings (we all need to at all times) doing the "tweeker shuffle" and constantly looking around will likely make some people nervous. That unfortunatelyis also the behavior of someone who is about to do something illegal (armed robbery?).

    I have witnessed the tweeker shuffle hundreds of times, and would likely be able to tell that you weren't tweeking. That is not to say that a newer Officer would be able to make that same determination through observation alone.The fact that you are armed would compound the issue. I could definetly see it justifying a contact with you however (I can already feel the flames). The good part of this is that once an Officer had spoken to you (even socially) he would likely soon be convinced that all was well (providing that you were rational and cooperative). If at this point you elicited hostile or uncooperative behavior (not saying you would) it would likely heighten the Officer's senses, and you would probably be detained.

    Hope this helps answer your question.
    If you have to fight, do not fear death. We will all die one day, so fight skillfully and bravely! And if it is to be that you die, then at least go to God proudly. Meet him as the proud warrior that you are, and not as a sniveling coward. Nobody lives forever.

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    Johnny Law wrote:
    Bookman wrote:
    Looking at the two areas in bold, is this behavior enough to "warrant alarm" in the eyes of the law? (Through direct observation by the LEO; NOT by a phone call)

    I fully support our 2A rights, but I have to admit that someone doing what appears to be a methamphetamine shuffle:what: while carrying a weapon would make me just a tad nervous.
    Bookman, Although you are to be commended for staying alert of your surroundings (we all need to at all times) doing the "tweeker shuffle" and constantly looking around will likely make some people nervous. That unfortunatelyis also the behavior of someone who is about to do something illegal (armed robbery?).

    I have witnessed the tweeker shuffle hundreds of times, and would likely be able to tell that you weren't tweeking. That is not to say that a newer Officer would be able to make that same determination through observation alone.The fact that you are armed would compound the issue. I could definetly see it justifying a contact with you however (I can already feel the flames). The good part of this is that once an Officer had spoken to you (even socially) he would likely soon be convinced that all was well (providing that you were rational and cooperative). If at this point you elicited hostile or uncooperative behavior (not saying you would) it would likely heighten the Officer's senses, and you would probably be detained.

    Hope this helps answer your question.
    Johnny Law, I agree with everything you said, but you read my post wrong. I was asking a question about someone else's response on another thread. THEY were doing the above described behavior. Personally, seeing someone behaving like that would place me on heightened alert.

    Your response is, indeed, the entire point of my question.
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

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    Bookman wrote:
    Johnny Law, I agree with everything you said, but you read my post wrong. I was asking a question about someone else's response on another thread. THEY were doing the above described behavior. Personally, seeing someone behaving like that would place me on heightened alert.

    Your response is, indeed, the entire point of my question.
    My bad.
    If you have to fight, do not fear death. We will all die one day, so fight skillfully and bravely! And if it is to be that you die, then at least go to God proudly. Meet him as the proud warrior that you are, and not as a sniveling coward. Nobody lives forever.

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    No sweat. I just wanted to set the record straight.
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

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    Bookman wrote:
    Looking at the two areas in bold, is this behavior enough to "warrant alarm" in the eyes of the law? (Through direct observation by the LEO; NOT by a phone call)
    It may not be sufficient to WARRANT alarm but it sure will get his/her attention. As Johnny Law stated they may want to engage you in conversation (a contact) and their actions would then be determined by your response(s).

    I find that I can be observant without the "shuffle". I tend to move about more casually, letting my eyes do all the work. What is neat about a lot of the checkout stands where I shop is that there are lots of reflective objects. Kind of like rear view mirrors.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    So we are down to trying to decidehow to stand in a checkout line so as not to get hassled or cause nervousness. I think I have a problem with this. I just can't figure out why andthat is making me real nervous.

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    irfner wrote:
    So we are down to trying to decidehow to stand in a checkout line so as not to get hassled or cause nervousness. I think I have a problem with this. I just can't figure out why andthat is making me real nervous.
    You, sir, are incorrigible!

    Off Topic - Are you coming out for Renton Art walk on Saturday? DEROS72 will be displaying. I get to do the donkey work and drive.
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

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    Bookman wrote:
    irfner wrote:
    So we are down to trying to decidehow to stand in a checkout line so as not to get hassled or cause nervousness. I think I have a problem with this. I just can't figure out why andthat is making me real nervous.
    You, sir, are incorrigible!

    Off Topic - Are you coming out for Renton Art walk on Saturday? DEROS72 will be displaying. I get to do the donkey work and drive.
    It depends on if I get to (have to) babysit grandma or not.

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    Bookman,

    I would tend to agree.If I see someone myself with a nevous behavior .I would become alarmed myself.You have known me for a long time ahve you ever seen my behavior change when I carry? Thats why I think the folks at safeway etc and the cops I talk to(Had coffee and B.s.d with a Demoines LEO this morning.They are comfortable around me because I don,t do anything I wouldn,t do otherwise.I learned a long time ago that one could be aware of his surroundings without looking like it.Kidding around with folks in line at the starbucks for ex. It puts people at ease.If I see someone standing around nervous looking around all the time figeting like he's about to dive into a firefight ,Yeah I would be somewhat alarmed.

    By the way we were listening to this LEOS radio (At another coffee stand down the street Owned by a real great gal name Chris who is all with us) .Anyway it was funny listening to this crackhead bust over his radio.How they described this gal they had cuffed up who was totally gone. "She smells like stale crack,stale booze and stale man." We busted up.

    Thanks to Bookman for his assistance with my art projects.He was always there ,to help.Was the one that got me to the hospafter my last heart attck ,made sure my stuff was squared away.Taken me to the Doc's more times than I can count.Friends like that come around very few times in ones life.He's one that will always have you back...

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    Bookman wrote:
    While reading the thread concerning protecting your OC weapon I came across the following comment (emphasis mine):

    "While in-line at stores and such, I'll always have a "nervous fidget" going on so that I can always continuously be scanning 360 degrees around me. This ends up turning into a little bit of a two-step and keeps my gun from staying stagnant as well. And moving targets are tougher to get! Never get "comfortable" or lazy while in public and OCing."

    Looking at the two areas in bold, is this behavior enough to "warrant alarm" in the eyes of the law? (Through direct observation by the LEO; NOT by a phone call)

    I fully support our 2A rights, but I have to admit that someone doing what appears to be a methamphetamine shuffle:what: while carrying a weapon would make me just a tad nervous.

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    Bookman wrote:
    While reading the thread concerning protecting your OC weapon I came across the following comment (emphasis mine):

    "While in-line at stores and such, I'll always have a "nervous fidget" going on so that I can always continuously be scanning 360 degrees around me. This ends up turning into a little bit of a two-step and keeps my gun from staying stagnant as well. And moving targets are tougher to get! Never get "comfortable" or lazy while in public and OCing."

    Looking at the two areas in bold, is this behavior enough to "warrant alarm" in the eyes of the law? (Through direct observation by the LEO; NOT by a phone call)

    I fully support our 2A rights, but I have to admit that someone doing what appears to be a methamphetamine shuffle:what: while carrying a weapon would make me just a tad nervous.
    Thank you for taking totally out of context what I said. I made this comment to answer the question about how people protect their weapon from a potential gun-grab while out in public. Keeping a watchful eye, and not making yourself out to be a sitting duckare the points I was TRYING to make. While I will share the blame, some, as I probably didn't describe what I do clearly enough to not be misunderstood. The "two step" was supposed to be somewhat of a sarcastic JOKEanddoes not have any type of methamphetaminical, rhythmic shuffle to it. Have you ever seen a uniformed officer standing in line at a grocery store or aresturant? They (well, most of them) constantly scan their surroundings. This isNOT threatening behavior. But, if something is worth my attention, I'llgive a casual glancetowards it.Also, you don't have to dance around to make sure you're not in one spot. Standing at the grocery store (OCing) while swiping your debit card and finishing your transaction with your head in the card machine for 15-30 seconds without looking up to see whats going on around you would "make me just a tad nervous." Because that looks like an OCer about ready to become a VICTIM. (emphasis mine)

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    G20-IWB24/7 wrote:
    Bookman wrote:
    While reading the thread concerning protecting your OC weapon I came across the following comment (emphasis mine):

    "While in-line at stores and such, I'll always have a "nervous fidget" going on so that I can always continuously be scanning 360 degrees around me. This ends up turning into a little bit of a two-step and keeps my gun from staying stagnant as well. And moving targets are tougher to get! Never get "comfortable" or lazy while in public and OCing."

    Looking at the two areas in bold, is this behavior enough to "warrant alarm" in the eyes of the law? (Through direct observation by the LEO; NOT by a phone call)

    I fully support our 2A rights, but I have to admit that someone doing what appears to be a methamphetamine shuffle:what: while carrying a weapon would make me just a tad nervous.
    Thank you for taking totally out of context what I said. I made this comment to answer the question about how people protect their weapon from a potential gun-grab while out in public. Keeping a watchful eye, and not making yourself out to be a sitting duck is the points I was TRYING to make. While I will share the blame, some, as I probably didn't describe what I do clearly enough to not be misunderstood. The "two step" was supposed to be somewhat of a sarcastic JOKEanddoes not have any type of methamphetaminical, rhythmic shuffle to it. Have you ever seen a uniformed officer standing in line at a grocery store or aresturant? They (well, most of them) constantly scan their surroundings. This isNOT threatening behavior. But, if something is worth my attention, I'llgive a casual glancetowards it.Also, you don't have to dance around to make sure you're not in one spot. Standing at the grocery store (OCing) while swiping your debit card and finishing your transaction with your head in the card machine for 15-30 seconds without looking up to see whats going on around you would "make me just a tad nervous." Because that looks like an OCer about ready to become a VICTIM. (emphasis mine)
    You guys paranoia seems to know no bonds.

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    How would somebody notice someone looking around and scanning the place were they not looking around themselves?

    That's the idea I'm trying to get across. LOOK AROUND while you're OCing.

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    G20-IWB24/7 wrote:
    How would somebody notice someone looking around and scanning the place were they not looking around themselves?

    That's the idea I'm trying to get across. LOOK AROUND while you're OCing.
    I thought situational awares was always, not just when armed or OC.

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    G20-IWB24/7 wrote:
    Bookman wrote:
    While reading the thread concerning protecting your OC weapon I came across the following comment (emphasis mine):

    "While in-line at stores and such, I'll always have a "nervous fidget" going on so that I can always continuously be scanning 360 degrees around me. This ends up turning into a little bit of a two-step and keeps my gun from staying stagnant as well. And moving targets are tougher to get! Never get "comfortable" or lazy while in public and OCing."

    Looking at the two areas in bold, is this behavior enough to "warrant alarm" in the eyes of the law? (Through direct observation by the LEO; NOT by a phone call)

    I fully support our 2A rights, but I have to admit that someone doing what appears to be a methamphetamine shuffle:what: while carrying a weapon would make me just a tad nervous.
    Thank you for taking totally out of context what I said. I made this comment to answer the question about how people protect their weapon from a potential gun-grab while out in public. Keeping a watchful eye, and not making yourself out to be a sitting duckare the points I was TRYING to make. While I will share the blame, some, as I probably didn't describe what I do clearly enough to not be misunderstood. The "two step" was supposed to be somewhat of a sarcastic JOKEanddoes not have any type of methamphetaminical, rhythmic shuffle to it. Have you ever seen a uniformed officer standing in line at a grocery store or aresturant? They (well, most of them) constantly scan their surroundings. This isNOT threatening behavior. But, if something is worth my attention, I'llgive a casual glancetowards it.Also, you don't have to dance around to make sure you're not in one spot. Standing at the grocery store (OCing) while swiping your debit card and finishing your transaction with your head in the card machine for 15-30 seconds without looking up to see whats going on around you would "make me just a tad nervous." Because that looks like an OCer about ready to become a VICTIM. (emphasis mine)
    I wasn't trying to dog you out or anything. It just occurred to me that that particular type of behavior by ANYONE would be cause for concern, and MIGHT cross the line to "warrants alarm".

    Sorry if I offended you. That wasn't my intent.

    ETF: "warrants suspicion" to "warrants alarm".
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

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