Moving OUT of California, but to WHERE?

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I am carefully studying ALL of your responses! I'll get into it in more detail in a while, but for now ...

I am of the belief that if a person is an honest law-abiding citizen with the usual "good guy" credentials; no criminal record, no mental illness, yadda yadda ... (admittedly difficult to find in California) he or she should be trusted to carry a loaded weapon open OR concealed just about anywhere without restrictions. The law would never have to worry about me robbing a convenience store, or blasting away at some jerk who doesn't know how to use his turn signals. I just don't need that sort of drama in my life.

I can understand not allowing them in courthouses and government buildings like the DMV and the post office and such, but restaurants? Come on! Haven't they heard about the McDonalds Massacre at San Ysidro? If I can't carry in a restaurant, the state falls lower on my Excel analytical spreadsheet!

It isn't that I WILL OC or CC on a regular basis. I just want that option. I want the option, because it tells the "bad guys" that I might be packing, and that alone will make it far less likely that I will be the target of a criminal. An armed society IS a polite society, after all!

I'm only 50 now, but age has taken its toll already. The bad knees make running away from a threat nearly impossible. The bad back makes duking it out with Rocky's drunk, drugged up younger brother unappealing. The finances make the willful reception of a long hospital stay or a permanent crippling injury insurmountable.

I'm the kind of guy who thinks, I'll treat you with respect and honor regardless of your age, race, religion, ethnicity or social status, as long as you respond in kind. I judge a person by their character.

There is another factor in this decision. My dear aging mother (PLEASE don't tell her I used the word "aging!") lives here also. If I move, she would move to wherever I am. We have almost no family, so if I leave, she would be left here alone. She needs to be within a reasonable distance of a quality medical center, so we can't buy homes out in the boonies, where it would be a 50 mile ride to the medical center for her various ongoing issues.

Please keep the responses coming. It is VERY encouraging to read your responses after living here in California, where you have a very good chance of being sentenced to a long prison term for shooting someone who is attacking you with a machete or for some similar defense of your life.

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Might as well come to Arizona with the rest of 'em.....


We've got it pretty good. The restaurant with alcohol thing is a bit of a downer, but on the other hand, OC is so common here that I would rate us higher than some other states with possibly better laws, but more real-life hassling from LE.

Obviously, the senior care system is running like a well-oiled machine in AZ, as well. We have no shortage of retirees!

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I would not recommend Arizona. It's like SoCal without the water.

Places I would recommend:

Colorado Springs, Colorado
Boise or Idaho Falls, Idaho

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Go to Alaska or Vermont for the best luck with concealed carry.

If having to have a permit for concealed carry (which isshall-issue)is okay with you, coming directly east to Nevada is pretty good.

NFA is okay, open carry is great, no rules on mags or numbers of guns.

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Honestly, my favorite state isNew Mexico. But it's incredibly difficult to make a living there. Lowest wages in the country. That's why I settled on AZ. But I may some daygo for Oregon, however that's just me.

Honestly, I don't think gun laws need to be your biggest concern. There are a bunch of freedom friendly states. They have different climates, different scenery,and different types of people. I'dmake a list of good freedom loving states, and chose from those based on a list of factorsthat goes beyond weapon laws.

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Good article in the Colorado Springs Gazette this morning about why the democraps shouldn't bother coming down from Denver. One of the reasons: "in El Paso county, gun control means hitting what you aim at." The County Commisioners have established an "NRA Appreciation Day." And 14 out of 1000 residents have CCW licenses--complete with congratulation letters from the Sheriff--who encourages everyone to get one. Obooba, boxer, schumer and the other worthless pos should stay in Denver. They're not welcome here. Now that Boobic bin laden picked another left wing asshole for his vp, it makes the choice a non-choice...at least if you want to keep your guns--or be able to buy ammunition for them.

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While visiting Kentucky a few weeks ago I looked up the gun laws to ensure I was legal in every aspect. I ran across a couple that were very interesting. When I looked up the equivalent Washington state laws, I found that we're screwed...... I think this confirms me moving back to my homestate of Kentucky.

1). Gold Star Open Carry State
2). Governments shall not impair rights to weapons during time of emergency
3). Employers not permitted to prohibit weapons on property, if kept in a vehicle on that property


Actual KRS wording:

KRS 237.104
Governments shall not impair rights to weapons during time of emergency
(1) No person, unit of government, or governmental organization shall, during a period of disaster or emergency as specified in KRS Chapter 39A or at any other time, have the right to revoke, suspend, limit the use of, or otherwise impair the validity of the right of any person to purchase, transfer, loan, own, possess, carry, or use a firearm, firearm part, ammunition, ammunition component, or any deadly weapon or dangerous instrument.
(2) No person, unit of government, or governmental organization shall, during a period of disaster or emergency as specified in KRS Chapter 39A or at any other time, take, seize, confiscate, or impound a firearm, firearm part, ammunition, ammunition component, or any deadly weapon or dangerous instrument from any person.
(3) The provisions of this section shall not apply to the taking of an item specified in subsection (1) or (2) of this section from a person who is:
(a) Forbidden to possess a firearm pursuant to KRS 527.040;
(b) Forbidden to possess a firearm pursuant to federal law.
(c) Violating KRS 527.020;
(d) In possession of a stolen firearm;
(e) Using a firearm in the commission of a separate criminal offense; or
(f) Using a firearm or other weapon in the commission of an offense under KRS Chapter 150.



A NEW SECTION OF KRS CHAPTER 237 IS CREATED TO READ AS FOLLOWS:
KRS 237.106
Employers not permitted to prohibit weapons on property, if kept in a vehicle on that property
(1) No person, including but not limited to an employer, who is the owner, lessee, or occupant of real property shall prohibit any person who is legally entitled to possess a firearm from possessing a firearm, part of a firearm, ammunition, or ammunition component in a vehicle on the property.
(2) A person, including but not limited to an employer, who owns, leases, or otherwise occupies real property may prevent a person who is prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a firearm or ammunition from possessing a firearm or ammunition on the property.
(3) A firearm may be removed from the vehicle or handled in the case of self-defense, defense of another, defense of property, or as authorized by the owner, lessee, or occupant of the property.
(4) An employer that fires, disciplines, demotes, or otherwise punishes an employee who is lawfully exercising a right guaranteed by this section, and who is engaging in conduct in compliance with this statute shall be liable in civil damages. An employee may seek and the court shall grant an injunction against an employer who is violating the provisions of this section when it is found that the employee is in compliance with the provisions of this section.
(5) The provisions of this section shall not apply to any real property:
(a) Owned, leased, or occupied by the United States government upon which the possession or carrying of firearms is prohibited or controlled;
(b) Of a detention facility as defined in KRS 520.010; or
(c) Where a section of the Kentucky Revised Statutes specifically prohibits possession or carrying of firearms on the property.

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You know, that might be a VERY interesting website to create!

www.whereshouldIlive.com

It would take the entire country and rate each state, county, city and neighborhood according to say, 100 different factors, so that someone could enter their top priorities and let the website suggest the best locations!

It could probably use the very same software that the dating sights use, except that the questions would be a bit different ... and the user profiles would also be geared toward finding suitable living conditions rather than a suitable match

On a scale of 1 - 10, 10 being best, rate each of the following facts about your future home:

1. Near excellent elementary school

2. Near excellent high school

3. near excellent college

4. near state-of-the-art hospital or medical facility

5. Near major airport

6. Near large body of water (lake, sea or ocean)

7 near rivers, streams, deltas and such.

8. excellent public transportation

9. Politically conservative

10 . Politically liberal

11. Strong religious community

12. Low taxes

13. Affordable homes

14. Low crime rate

15. allows unrestricted concealed carry

16. Allows unrestricted open carry

17. Ample technology (Cellular service, Internet, etc.)

18. racial diversity

19. traditional american values

20. quality, well maintained roads

21. outdoor activities (summer)

22. outdoor activities (winter)

23. large residential properties (farms, ranches, etc.)

24. mild climates

25. picturesque views

26. plenty of water (swimming pools, landscaping etc.)

26. motorcycle friendly region

27. lots of shade trees

28. Low insect problem

29. stable property values

30. average age under 40

31. Average age over 40

32. Senior community (no children)

33. Government tax-supported subsidy to low-income families.

34. Low Estate and inheritance taxes

35. Self-sufficient home (solar, well, septic, etc.)


Yeah! I think a website like that would be very popular!

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gravedigger wrote:

You know, that might be a VERY interesting website to create!

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http://www.city-data.com/

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I've been thinking about the same thing also. My work can be done anywhere. I work at home and need to come to Hollywood only on occasion.

Our requirements seem to be the same, save for one detail... state taxes. I'm looking to move to one of the 9 states that do not have state income taxes.





Alaska
New Hampshire
Tennessee

Florida
South Dakota
Washington

Nevada
Texas
Wyoming

Please note that these state have the most liberal (except Washington) gun laws. Except for Texas OC I believe is legal in them. For me, I like living in the west. So naturally Nevada is at the top of my list.

I'm also looking at Idaho, Utah and Montana... which have a low (compared to CA state income tax).

This all depends on your need for work--and availability of work. Having spent a lot of time in the boonies fly fishing in the western states... the pockets of opportunity are only available in urban areas for most people. Outside of this, the county has been economically stipped-mined. Whole towns have been boarded up. People are moving away. It's bleak in some areas.

Top of my list for gun rights, and like minded people who are "gulching" are...

Nevada

Utah

Idaho

Montana

Wyoming

N/S Dakota

Northern Arizona (there's actually trees and water there).



ST

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It sounds to me like Henderson, NV should make the top of your list. I really hate the summers here, it's just too hot but the rest of the time it's great. Plus we are realitively (sp) free. :celebrate

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I would recommend Idaho. I believe they are the freest laws in the country, next to Alaska maybe. No permit required to OC, only need a permit if concealing in city limits. Pretty much can go anywhere you please. Full state preemption of firearm laws. Friendly people, low crime, stable economy, light winters in the Treasure Valley area. One of the top 10 places to live in as voted by Money Magazine for several years.

Got enough people coming here from California causing us trouble...would be nice to have one come here to keep things good.

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Has anybody else noted that, other than Alaska, the states that are the most pro-2a are also the most anti-homeschool? Vermont is always listed as the dream-carry state, but you can forget about home school. Illinois, on the other hand is the "promise land" for home schoolers. Want to teach your kids at home? No problem. No forms, no testing, no curriculum approval. But we all know about Illinois' gun laws. I just find it strange.

BTW, I think Florida more than makes up for the lack of income tax in "Fees". When I lived there, they charged me a $250 "fee" to register my car and extra sales tax because according to them I didn't pay enough in Alabama when I bought the car 2 years previous.

The Alabama legislature, on the other hand, is currently complaining about having the 2nd lowest per capita revenue in the country :celebrate

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Try Washington, we seem to have plenty of Californians here already:cuss: might as add one more who is "of the right mind"!

Property tax varies, no income tax. No NFA weapons though, shall issue CPL, OC anywhere CC is legal (CPL required for carry in a vehicle) no mag restrictions, stand your ground state, etc...

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sv_libertarian wrote:

No NFA weapons though,

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That is the deal breaker for Washington with me. I got a job offer there, but it was a non option. I don't have any NFA stuff, but I consider it crucial for a state to trust it's citizens with whatever level of firepower they want.

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AZ seems to fit your bill pretty good, except for the carrying in alcohol-serving restaruant thing and the fact you need to spend 8 hours of your life and $65 +instructor fees to get a CCW.

As far as the restaraunts that serve alcohol thing goes, hopefully AZCDL will get that changed one of these legistative sessions.

You have lots of choices in AZ: the Valley (Phoenix metro) is very big city. Places like Wickenburg and Cave Creek are just outside the urban sprawl, and are very western-oriented style towns. You can live in the middle of BFE desert (like Sonora Rebel does). There is the 'high desert' areas around Prescott, with real weather even. There is also the pines of Prescott, Flagstaff, Alpine, Payson, etc.

If you are going to come to AZ, and out of the metro areas, better have a job lined up though, cause they are sometimes hard to find.

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gravedigger wrote:

There is another factor in this decision. My dear aging mother (PLEASE don't tell her I used the word "aging!") lives here also. If I move, she would move to wherever I am. We have almost no family, so if I leave, she would be left here alone. She needs to be within a reasonable distance of a quality medical center, so we can't buy homes out in the boonies, where it would be a 50 mile ride to the medical center for her various ongoing issues.

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The area around Lexington, Kentucky would be great for the medical issue. The University of Kentucky has one of the best medical programs in the nation. If you're a veteran the VA has an office in Lexington as well as a VA medical center.

Of course Kentucky is very firearms friendly. The right to keep and bear arms is recognized not only by the state constitution but also by case law and law enforcement (for the most part).

medicosimm said:

I love Arizona..stayed there for 3 yrs. Great place and good atmosphere.

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You're brave. I'll give you that.

If the crap really hits the fan, I'll be at the oldest (not the popularist) cornfield. That's way too far north, so I'll just drift South, but please keep East, as it may be...

This is why we used to have a large cook area. Same fire, much food. Don't shy away...

Jared said:

SouthernBoy wrote:

Virginia is my favorite place. I lived in Reston for 5 months, it was the best 5 months of my life.

Northern Virginia does have very high taxes, the rest of the state may be much lower.

Virginia does not have good self defense laws.

Virginia is not a bad state on guns but they get an inflated grade because of the open carry movement.

I like open carry but it sucks that it's mandated in almost every restaurant. Most states are not like this. Virginia has quite a few places off limits to carry (not as bad as Tennessee or the Carolinas).

They are not fully class 3 either. Automatic shotguns are banned.

Putting gun laws aside, if I'd live anywhere it would be Northern Virginia. Maybe this will change one day, but not anytime soon

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As of this year, the one day left in it, Concealed Carry and open carry are legal in Virginia restaurants, unless they are posted as no guns. Granted, I don't dine out a lot, but the few places I've been this year were not posted. Virginia's only other condition is that Concealed carriers can't drink while carrying. Of course, and this makes no sense to me, you can drink if you are open carrying. As for "automatic shotguns", only fully auto ones are illegal. Most any semi-auto shotgun is legal. I've been hunting with one for over 50 years.

gravedigger said:

I have been considering moving OUT of California. I have lived here for 36 years, which makes me a "native Californian" because anyone who has lived here more than 20 years is practically an original settler!

So, all other things being equal, in that I can find work anywhere, and I have no kids, no educational requirements and no ex-wives to avoid, I have concluded that the one deciding factor as to where to move will be the GUN LAWS.

I want to move to a place where I can legally own a pistol that shoots more than ten rounds. I want to move to a place where I can buy ten handguns, four rifles and a half-dozen shotguns if I can afford it, just because I think they're marvelous examples of fine American craftsmanship, and I want to take them home with me right away.

I want to find a place where I can legally open carry and CONCEALED carry without fear of being thrown into jail overnight just because a cop knows he is not accountable for the inconvenience he will cause me. (Ask bobbarker about this one.)

I want to move to a place where if I want to buy a machine gun just because I am an American, I can do so without Janet Reno showing up at my door.

I want to live in a place where, in the unlikely event that someone assaults me with a knife or a bat or a crowbar, I can legally draw and drop him in his tracks after he ignores my warning to cease his agression. I don't want to run away. I don't want to comply with the demands of a criminal, and I don't want to be prosecuted by the D.A. for defending my life.

My mom and sister visited Birmingham Alabama a while ago. I have to laugh, because she asked an older black gentleman, "Is this a safe neighborhood?" He smiled and said, "Yes ma'am. You are certainly safe here. I am armed. (shows his holster under his jacket) Everyone is armed. Even the waitress who is serving you is armed..."


So tell me, America. WHERE should I start looking for a new home?


.

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Alaska, Utah and Arizona come to mind. Also Wyoming. OC currently leaves out OK & TX, but that should be taken care of this new year. NM & CO are not bad, but they have a couple of weird laws to watch out for. Forget most of yankee land and the Dictatorship of Illinois.

Your mileage may vary.