.357 mag.

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I have a friend that did that with a bunch of IMR4350 he bought back in the late 1970s. He kepth it in dry storage at a good temparature so I haven't had any issues with it.

If you sight in at 75 yds. you still won't have any problems with 100 yd. shots. The only reason I said 100 yds. is because any error in sight in at 75 yds. will be amplified at 100 yds..Other than that it wouldn't make any real difference in trajectory. Trust me, a44 mag isn't that balistically bad, especially a rifle. And with the 240 gr. bullet your using, a leaf or something light isn't going to really be much of an issue regarding deflection. So have fun and feel confident in your rifle, its a good choice for a brush gun! I actually prefer the 44 mag over a 30-30 for brush hunting because a .308 bullet is more likely to deflect than will a .429 projectile.

gamestalker

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Well I got a chance to throw some factory ammo through the rifle and I waspretty impressed. Off hand, at 18-23 yards, and at about half pass dark (it was dark enough I had to turn on the porch light just to see the target) I was able to put 9 rounds into a group the size of a tennis ball. Lowest shot was about .5" above the center of the bull, highest shot was 2.75" above center of bull. Farthest shot to the left was 1" from center of bulland farthest shot right was 1.5" from center of bull. The entire group was 2 3/8" tall and 2.5" wide. Not bad for the above conditions if you ask me.

Tomorrow, I'll go out and set up at approximately 40-50 yards on a rest and see what it does. I'll let you all know what happensbut if you have any advice, I'd love to hear it.

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I really don't have any advice, it sounds like you've got the ticket. I looked up the ballistics and according to the science of it, the 240 gr. bullet is good at any range up to 150 yds. when sigted in at 100 yds.. At point blank its 1.5" low and at 150 yds. it should hit about 2.25" low. Can't really beat that, and the 240gr. is sure to stop just about anything nearly any where you hit it. It will probably die from hydra shock from a bullet that size! I hope you hammer a nice one this season dude. You deserve it and your rifle needs to draw first blood. You have a responsibility to your fellow supporters of the sport of hunting. Think of it as a mission and approach it as such, it kind of makes it a little more interesting, and fun.

Is there a lot of public land where you live, or is it primarily private land? Here in Arizona we have thousands of square miles of public land and a lot of it is wilderness. Its nice, but it is also difficult at times because you can easily get lost and often times hunting can involve miles and miles of walking through elements that have no real land marks or roads to get in by. And getting your animal out after the kill sometimes takes days of work, hard work I might add. I've guided people that said they would never hunt again in Arizona because it was so physical.

gamestalker

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Okay, I was able to put the rest of a 50rd box through her this morning but I'm a little confused. First off, I was set up at roughly 50 yards (take or add 10 yards) for the first 20-25 shots. They were shot from a somewhat supported position (sitting in a fold-a-chairwith both elbows resting on my legs) and they weren't even on the paper most of the time. All WAAAAAY high! So I adjusted the sights (the WRONG way) and fired another 10 shots or so at various levels and things of course only got worse. I eventually figured out that I needed to lower the rear sight instead of raising it and not wanting to 'waste' any more ammo I moved closer as well. Now at about 20-25 yards (posibly as much as 30, if you can't tell already, I suck at gaugingdistances) with the sight as low as possible,I was still hitting about 3"-5" highwhen I aimed dead on with thefront sight just below my intended point of impact. A little adjustment to the sight picture and I finally printed a decent group. I had one flyer (I flinched, that thing has got some punch to it from being so light) into roughly a 4" group. I was agrivated by that point and was basicallydoing more shootingthan stabilizing. I know with practice and the correctsight position, it's capable of muchbetter than that 4" group.Either way, I was having to aim about 4-5 inches low to put them in that sized group with most of them directly on the bullseye.

What do I do? The sight doesn't go down any lower than it already is but even at say 25 yards, I'm still hitting roughly 3.5" high when aiming for the center of the bull. I've only been able to get about 3-4 hours worth of sleep in the past 36 hours or so, so I'm a little sleep deprived. I was fine while shooting, been up for less than 24 hours at that point, but now I just can't seem to think straight. Please help!!!

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Well, what you really need to do is take 25 steps back from the target and using a decent rest put 2 rounds in it being that your probably running low on ammo.Don't worry about high or low at this point, all your trying to do at this range is get it on the paper. make adjustments at this range that will at least get it in the ball park.Then take another 25 steps back and shoot a couple more making small adjustments to keep it in the ball park. And as you continue bacl in 25 step increments you'll reach 100 steps where you'll get it dead on.It really isn't going to be effective to try and sight in at 25 yds, or even 50 yds. for that matter because any little descrepency at these distances is critical at 75 or 100 yds. things begin to double or quadruple in terms of variances. I'm 5'5" and each one of my normal steps is almost exactly 1 yd.. so if your about 6 ' then I would think 73 or so steps is going to be close to 75 yds. or very close.. But it is critical to use a decent rest. I use old socks filled with beans, if you can, if not use sand or something of like consistency. But homnestly speaking, it is almost impossible to sight in without a decent rest. You'll really have no idea where you are actually hitting. If your on the paper at 75 yds. with a rest, then take it out to 100 yds. and begin the process of getting it as close to dead on the bull as possible and you'll be just perfect for anything from point blank (-1.5") to 150 yds. (-2.2 "), with 100 yds. being dead on of course,I promise! Once you get it where your getting consistent groups then make your adjustments as need in small increments.

You'll get it, just follow my instructions and make sure to use a good stable rest, that is the key to sighting in accurately. Each year I watch folks trying to sight in at the range off hand or in other positions and it just dosen't work. Let me know how it goes. Oh if its shooting left move the rear sight to the right, and left if its hitting right,up to raise it,down to lower it. Don't mess with the front sight, all adjustments are made from the rear only.

gamestalker

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Yes Mr. Mind Reader, I am running pretty low on ammo at this point. lol I was shooting 5 shot groups but quickly realized that I can't afford that at this moment. So I switched to 3 shot groups. The last group that I made was a 9 shot (full tube) group thatwas about 3.5"-4" up and down and left and right. The gun is dead nuts accurate as far as left and right is concerned. I would guess that I was about 40 steps from the target. I'm 5'11" and you couldn't pay me enough to post my weight on here. Either way, at ~40 steps from the target, like I said, if I aimed about 3-4" low, I'd be hitting the bull all day long. Basically what I was wondering is if I have to aim that low at that range, what kind of sight alignment would I need to have to hit a 100yd target. Would I aim dead center or what. Sorry but it's been a realllllllllly long day and I can't really think straight.

Tomorrow I'll take all your advice and move up to where my truck is parked which is about 75-85 steps. Pretty much the furthest distance possible on my piece of land. I just need to know where to aim. You said that things get doubled and quadrupled at longer range so I would assume that that's the reason why it wasn't even on the paper most of the time when I was aiming dead on. Like I said, the sight is at it's lowest setting available. So I can't go down anymore, I just have to adjust my sight picture and that's what I was asking for your help on.

Also, another thing I learned today is that I REALLLLLLLY need to have either some binocs or a spotting scope to check the target from where I am as opposed to walking down and checking the target every couple shots. Either way, thanks for all your help on this, I REALLLLLLLY appreciate it.

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You know 75 or 85 yds. is just fine for sight in. I would take one nice steady shot from there and try real hard to see if it hits high or low, ifit doesn't get on the paper. and go from there. ButI would bet if you do that you'll find its hitting very low and all you'll have to do is just make a few adjustments up to get it right. The reason I say that is because any half decent firearm is test fired to asess the acuracy and funtion of the gun and with that it wouldn't have made it to the retail cestor if it was not possible to sight it in at 75 yds or so.the sights are above the barel of course, so it is physically impossible for it to shoot high at 25 yds., no matter how far down the sights areadusted unless someone has changed the sights on it making the rear sight set above the front sight atits lowest setting point. Take and do a quick measure of the hight of the front and rear sights. the rear should be no higherthan the front at the top lateral point of the V or grove.That is one of the factors used to determine absolute zero or perpetual zero.

gamestalker

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gamestalker wrote:

You know 75 or 85 yds. is just fine for sight in. I would take one nice steady shot from there and try real hard to see if it hits high or low, ifit doesn't get on the paper. and go from there. ButI would bet if you do that you'll find its hitting very low and all you'll have to do is just make a few adjustments up to get it right. The reason I say that is because any half decent firearm is test fired to asess the acuracy and funtion of the gun and with that it wouldn't have made it to the retail cestor if it was not possible to sight it in at 75 yds or so.the sights are above the barel of course, so it is physically impossible for it to shoot high at 25 yds., no matter how far down the sights areadusted unless someone has changed the sights on it making the rear sight set above the front sight atits lowest setting point. Take and do a quick measure of the hight of the front and rear sights. the rear should be no higherthan the front at the top lateral point of the V or grove.That is one of the factors used to determine absolute zero or perpetual zero.

gamestalker

Click to expand...

This was a New Old Stock gun with Hi-Viz sights, it's also got a FACTORY ported barrel. Obviously this is somewhat of a custom gun. Here's a picture of the Rear Sight that measures 3/16"from barrel to center of right hand green dot;


And here's a pic of the front sight that measures the exact same height!!!:


As for accuracy, here I was shooting at a box for a medium domino's pizza. I had the red fr. sight alligned perfectly along side the green dots on the rear sight. Also, I had the red dot centeredon the bottom of the white dot inside the red square.Here's the pic.


And here is a pic of the ~40 step target. The top several shots are holding the sight on the middle of the target and the rest of them are from holding it at the bottom of the green. Here's the pic;


Since I'm now certain that there's something wrong, what do I do? Run my last box of ammo through it and try to get used to compensating or what?

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You said your rear and front sights are both 3/16 of an inch off the barrel, right? If that is the case then raise your front sight up about 1/16" and then you should be able to adjust the rear sight as normal to sight in. Let me know what happens.

gamestalker

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I don't know how or if it's even possible to raise the front sight. Any suggestions? I really like the Hi-Viz sights but if they're both the exact same height then something is (if I'm reading your above replies correctly) definitely wrong. Correct? Like I said, I don't know of any way to raise the front sight and the rear sight can't go any lower so what do I do short of taking it to a smith?

Okay I just remeasured and it's worse than I originally stated. The rear sight (to the center of the green dot) is 5/16th of an inch. The front sight (to the center of the red dot) is 3/16th. Sorry I was going on like my 40th hour without sleep at the time and all the marks blurred together and I made a mistake. But I just remeasured it and the rear sight (at it's lowest level) is still 1/8" higher than the front.

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If there is a way to file down therear sight mounting surface that would work. Or put the factory sights back on or go to a smith.

gamestalker

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Well after a little bit of amerature gunsmithing I was able to fix it, mostly anyway. What I did is really crank down on the windage screw. You see, to adjust for windage on this rifle, you unset a screw and move the entire rear sight left or right. By cranking down on the screw (at the front of the rear sight) it raises the rear sight just a hair. I know that a 100yd shot is still going to require some 'guesstimation' but at half that, it shouldn't take much compensation/guesstimation to get a dead on shot.

Here's a pic that says it all. I was aiming for the area just above the dot on the 'i' in domino's. Basically, the group was centered about .75" above the spot that I was aiming at. It was shot atroughly 20 steps. Pretty much point blank but still. It was a 10 shot group that measured 1.5" wide and 1.5" tall. I was going to start at 1-2 shot groups but that was because I expected it to be way off windage wise. It wasn't so I just kept on shooting.

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That works! If you feel you can effectively use that gun without too much difficulty then go for it. But at some point in time you might want to fix that problem, it could ruin your hunt and just simply isn't the right way to set up your really nicefirearm. Kind of cheesy ya know.

gamestalker

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I'll probably go out and shoot a little more in a little while. What I'm going to do is back up as far as possible and take one shot from a supported position. The distance will probably only be 70-75 steps but it's the best I can do. Either way, I've got pretty bad vision and will be wearing a 5 year old pair of glasses that help and hurt at the same time but I wouldn't even be able to see the target without them. Either way, I'll be glad to hit a 4-5 inch groupat that range with iron sights so if I can hit within 7.5" or so of the bullwhen I'm still getting used to shooting the rifle I'll know that I can eventually work my way down to a 4" group required for a good kill shot on a deer.

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Hey, with the kind of hunting you'll be doing it really won't make much difference. Where I live a 250 yd. shot is considered close and the rifle must be sighted in with deadly accuracy. Good luck and hope you get a nice one this season!

gamestalker

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250 yards = close range!?!?!?! How's the weather in heaven? I just can't imagine something like that! Hey while we're on the subject of long range shots, how are the .308 rounds at long range. I mean hey, it's good enough for the military so it's gotta be good enough for me who'll never step foot on a range with more than ~250 yard targets, right? The reason I'm asking is I'd like to have and know how to use it to 'reach out and touch something.' I used to have a Savage .308 with accutrigger and that was soooooooo sweet. I'm basically just thinking about getting another one as a BUR (Back Up Rifle) for hunting. What do you think?

Thanks for the good luck wish, this is only my second year out but a lot of things have changed since last season so I've got some high hopes. I'll definitely be telling everyone I know (including you all) when/if I get a deer this year. It doesn't have to be a monster 10 point, I hear does taste better anyways so it isn't going to take much teasing before bambi goes for a long nap. A dirt nap that is. MUHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Thanks again for all your help!

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The .308 is probably one of the most versatile rifles made. It can be loaded for super long range varmint and it can be loaded witha big nasty bullet for big game, and everything in between. There are more varieties for the 30 cal. bullet than any other caliber made and that is fact. Although the .308 round isn't as coefficient as the .284 or .277 round, it is certainly in the same class. I actually prefer the .308 rifle over the 30-06 even though they both will shoot the same varieties of bullets, the .308 seems to perform a little better. The new ultra mag round that was introduced several years ago is a conception of the .308 cartridge. That particular cartridge concept proved to have magnum capabilities without having to use the belted design and deliver a high velocity while maintaining a good working pressure. well I'll stop boring you with technical stuff for now. But and answer to your question is, yes the .308 is definitely an excellent choice for long range and everything in between. In addition to that, the Savage 110 and 111 are excellent rifles and have some of the most accurate actions for a production rifle for the money. I have one in 7mm rem. mag. and although I've lapped the barrel and action to maximize its performance, it is just fine out of the box.

gamestalker

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Well I'm just going to have to get one then. I'm going to go window shop for .308's on gunbroker. Thanks for all your help!

EDIT TO ADD: Found a couple pretty nice buys (less than $400) for models NOT equipped with the AccuTrigger. Is the adjustable trigger worth the extra money?

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Here's a few auctions that I'm currently looking at. I'll start with the most expensive.

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=109297541- Savage 10FP 20" barreled rifle with a Bushnell Elite 3200 10x40mm Mil-Dot tacticalscope. The bi pod is NOT included. Total price (my local FFL charges $50) is $1,005

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=109277241- Savage 11FXP4 with Simmons Blazer 3-9x40. Total price is $531

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=109257156- Savage 11FXP3 with an unlisted type of scope butWITHOUT accutrigger. Total price $419

Any suggestions?

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Yes, the upgraded trigger is worth it. And so far as the retail prices your getting, I think you are being over quoted. I was just at my local gun shop today and looked at at least a dozen 110 s and 111s that were in the $40 price range. Granted none of them had good optics on them, but a nice Leupold 3x9x40is only $200 at your local WalMart. And even if you have to go with mail order you can get the same deal from Cabela's or Sportsmans. A used one, Savage 110 or 111 is really not a bad way to go and can be found for about $250 or so. Most people don't put very many rounds through these type of firearms so usually your getting just a dirty gun in a rather new state of wear often not even broken in yet. I shoot nthing but Leupold optics because they have excellent eye relief, 100% water proof, they don't fog, excellent light transmission, clarity unmatched by any other, and guarenteed for life without any questions asked if broken by any means!I have had 2 incidents with my Leupold optics one in which I accidently left my $500 binoculars on the tire and ran them over when I drove off, crushing them. Leupold sent me back a new pair and even paid the shipping for me. I dropped my rifle down a cliff and the Leupold scope was distroyed. Leupold replaced it again no questions asked and paid the shipping. I worked in a sporting goods store for a coule of years and had several customers bring their Leupold optics in after having been their fault for breaking them and Leupold never asked questions or made it a hassle to replace or fix! Buy Leupld and settle for nothing less, you'll never be sorry and anyone who looks through them will be amazed at the picture quality that is so obvious even at first glance.

gamestalker