Waist Band Holsters

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riverrat10k wrote:

I have recently obtained a concealed permit. Before that, step I did much research on the laws and responsibilites of handgun ownership. I carry a little S&W hammerless .38+P. I felt I would "stir up less trouble" by carrying concealed. However, the va. eatery and alcohol laws leave me in quandry. My weapon is so small, I risk concealing it with my love handles!:lollus it is such a small arm, it looks kinda silly in abig leather holster. I hate leaving it in the car. I may join forces with you folks but I am still a bit hesitant. There is great info here at OCDO and I wish to thank many of the posters for your insight and experience. I'll be lurking.

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Your post beat mine above re: +1 or not +1.

As for OWB holsters for J-frames (is that what you are carrying?) there are any number of quality leather and synthetic holsters that are not much bigger than the J-frame itself. It is not necessary that you take up twice the size of the revolver with an OWB pancake holster.

Unless you are facing this http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=19897&highlight=nudist+camp WARNING: probably NSFW and guaranteed NSFFamily. ADDITIONAL WARNING: Major Beverage Alert!! you should have no problems OC-ing IWB even with "love handles" as long as you consider a change of holster location from right underneath them. (A little creativity helps - so long as it does not involve duct tape .)

stay safe.

skidmark

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richarcm wrote:

Ahhh....yes. And so is my dilemma. A 'he said, she said' style inerpretation of what is legal.

I think I'll wait until I get my permit so that I'm covered either way.

:?

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Having your permit will be of no benefit in a restaurtant that serves alcohol for on premises consumption where if you are to carry legally, it must be OCd and no permit is required nor applicable.

You will need to be familiar with the practical, workable everyday methods of OC which include IWB and the Virginia Tuck. To my knowledge no case has ever been lost over this method of carry as being charged with carrying concealed. Anybody care to rebutt?
___________________________________________________________________

Also somebody please show me in the Code of Virginia what per centage of a handgun must be visible in order for it to be considered carried openly - 100%, 75%, 50% 25%. Per centage doesn't work for you? How about inches or contrasting color? No? Oh, I see it only has to be visible and identifiable to common observation.

And let's not forget that if I am sitting strong side to the wall after entering, I am still OCing.

I repeat my link for descriptive purposes.
http://vaguninfo.com/pages/opencarry.htm

Yata hey

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I am sure that there are no end of opinions on this subject - ad nasium.

What we are generally concerned with here, gentlemen, is after the Code and case law, what works and what doesn't.

Might happen, could happen, maybe might could happen is pure negative speculation.

Yata hey

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Hlh, thank you for the invite. I am a still VERY cautious concerning my handgun. AndSkidmark, yes a little airlight J.Of course have used shotguns and riflessince a child, but handgun carry is new to me. Employment now takes me to secluded places in questionable parts of town, and I realized I am not as young, strong, or fast as I used to be. Heavier, bad knee, etc. I guess I should just shop for the proper holster and get on with it. Cargo shorts are great but a little low for good response. Winter is no prob. Just that darn restaraunt thing! Overall, I support y'all and may take HLH up on his offer at some point. "An armed society is a polite society"



riverrat

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skidmark wrote:

ed and ProShooter wrote:

richarcm wrote:

Ahhh....yes. And so is my dilemma. A 'he said, she said' style inerpretation of what is legal.

I think I'll wait until I get my permit so that I'm covered either way.

:?

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+1

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While waiting until you get your CHP in hand so that you can avoid potential confusion, it is not supportive of the OC "cause".

IMHO either you are convinced that OC is legal or you are not convinced. IMHO if you are convinced that OC is legal you are willing to OC without any "backup" papers.

As always, YMMV.

stay safe.

skidmark

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The question is not whether OC is legal. The question is whether or not that particular style of carry is viewed legallyas open carry. It has nothing to do whatsoever with supporting "the cause".

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ProShooter wrote:

skidmark wrote:

ed and ProShooter wrote:

richarcm wrote:

Ahhh....yes. And so is my dilemma. A 'he said, she said' style inerpretation of what is legal.

I think I'll wait until I get my permit so that I'm covered either way.

:?

Click to expand...

+1

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While waiting until you get your CHP in hand so that you can avoid potential confusion, it is not supportive of the OC "cause".

IMHO either you are convinced that OC is legal or you are not convinced. IMHO if you are convinced that OC is legal you are willing to OC without any "backup" papers.

As always, YMMV.

stay safe.

skidmark

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The question is not whether OC is legal. The question is whether or not that particular style of carry is viewed legallyas open carry. It has nothing to do whatsoever with supporting "the cause".

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"Viewed legally" by whom? You? This is merely the opinion of someone in a great minority who esposes do it my way or you are wrong. A multitude of postings on a particular subject does not make your position more valid. Even if a rogue dept. or LEO where to share your opinion, it does not add to the validity.

Why I was even told yesterday by a local LEO, that OC was not legal in a county to be mentioned later. No I will not elborate more at this time except to tell you that I was carrying a 1911 in a belt slide Serpa - very OC. More later. BTW - I am free and smoking, literally and figeratively. Minor incident with major irritation after the fact.

And yes it has everything to do with supporting the cause. Did you miss this point from John and Mike?

How richarcm chooses to participate is another matter which is entirely up to him.
Whether he elects to OC 24/7, occasionally or not at all is for him to decide and he should do so without regret.

Yata hey

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Grapeshot wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

skidmark wrote:

ed and ProShooter wrote:

richarcm wrote:

Ahhh....yes. And so is my dilemma. A 'he said, she said' style inerpretation of what is legal.

I think I'll wait until I get my permit so that I'm covered either way.

:?

Click to expand...

+1

Click to expand...

While waiting until you get your CHP in hand so that you can avoid potential confusion, it is not supportive of the OC "cause".

IMHO either you are convinced that OC is legal or you are not convinced. IMHO if you are convinced that OC is legal you are willing to OC without any "backup" papers.

As always, YMMV.

stay safe.

skidmark

Click to expand...

The question is not whether OC is legal. The question is whether or not that particular style of carry is viewed legallyas open carry. It has nothing to do whatsoever with supporting "the cause".

Click to expand...

"Viewed legally" by whom? You? This is merely the opinion of someone in a great minority who esposes do it my way or you are wrong. A multitude of postings on a particular subject does not make your position more valid. Even if a rogue dept. or LEO where to share your opinion, it does not add to the validity.

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Viewed legally by the criminal justice system, obviously.

Nothing I said espouses the idea of "do it my way or your are wrong". What I have said all along is that there is a possibility that some may view an IWB holster as concealed carry. IWB's by design, are concealment holsters. If you choose to carry in that method, so be it, that is your perogative.

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If you can identify the grip as being a firearm--it is open carry. Before I got my SERPA, I OC'd my P229 with an IWB holster...when I walked into a restaurant, I would tuck my shirt behind the grip of my firearm, behind the holster and ergo, it is OC.

Otherwise, how would anyone tell if you had a firearm?

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riverrat10k wrote:

Hlh, thank you for the invite. I am a still VERY cautious concerning my handgun. AndSkidmark, yes a little airlight J.Of course have used shotguns and riflessince a child, but handgun carry is new to me. Employment now takes me to secluded places in questionable parts of town, and I realized I am not as young, strong, or fast as I used to be. Heavier, bad knee, etc. I guess I should just shop for the proper holster and get on with it. Cargo shorts are great but a little low for good response. Winter is no prob. Just that darn restaraunt thing! Overall, I support y'all and may take HLH up on his offer at some point. "An armed society is a polite society"



riverrat

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1) I have a few OC holsters for a j-frame that you are free to try out. Just contact me via PM or here on the board and we will work out time & place. Unlike professional OC guides/mentors, I do not expect anything in return.

2) I have always suggested the Wal-Mart Walk http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/730330-post50.htmlas the way for newbies to get used to OC-ing and to deal with the (generally lack of) response from the hoi-poloi. Again, iof you are intetested in a guided tour of your local Wal-Mart, contact me to arrange for a time. Unlike professional OC guides/mentors, I do not expect anything in return.

3) It is still a bit early for the planning for the September They-Have-Gone-Back-To-School :celebrateRichmond OC Dinner, but I am willing to provide chauffeur and escort service for those needing an arm to lean on. Again, just contact me to work out the arrangements. Unlike professional OC guides/mentors, I do not expect anything in return.

4) I know the location of the Souper-Seekret pre-meeting meeting place for the VCDL monthly meetings in Annandale, as well as the after-meeting meating [yes, that is spelled correctly] place.I'm am willing to provide chauffeur and escort service for those wary of OC-ing or driving in NOVA traffic- but this will involve some gas money unless prices come down some more.

stay safe.

skidmark

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ProShooter wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

Viewed legally" by whom? You? This is merely the opinion of someone in a great minority who esposes do it my way or you are wrong. A multitude of postings on a particular subject does not make your position more valid. Even if a rogue dept. or LEO were to share your opinion, it does not add to the validity.

Click to expand...

Viewed legally by the criminal justice system, obviously.
What! The entire Dept. of Criminal Justice Services and all LE agencies and departments view, interpert and/or decide what is legal? Gosh darn, golly - here all along I thought that the General Assembly decided what was not legal, that LE depts. were bound to enforce the laws as written, the Attorney General offered interpertation or clarification to these LEs and the courts had the final say on the laws as writtten.

Nothing I said espouses the idea of "do it my way or your are wrong". What I have said all along is that there is a possibility that some may view an IWB holster as concealed carry. IWB's by design, are concealment holsters. If you choose to carry in that method, so be it, that is your perogative.
No sir, it is my Right !

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By your logic if I buy a bald, slick tire that was originally designed, advertised and intended for use on a vehicle then I must at least be guilty of poor judgement. BTW - I intend to use it to make a boat bumper.

How I chose to use a product determines it's fuction. Advertising copy intended for the laws of 48+- states does not, I repeat does not become prima facia evidence of an attempt to conceal. To suggest so is ludicrous.

I can see the fun day in court now. Prosecutor, "Yes your honor he was carrying his handgun in a sharkskin and eel holster from the concealed carry custom line of this famous concealed carry holster maker - see here's the ad in Guns & Ammo! Thats why even though is was not hidden from common observation and readily identifiable as a weapon we disarmed him, charged him and brought him to trial. He was using a holster advertised as a concealed model. In your chambers - Why?"

Bottom line: To my knowledge no case has ever been lost in Virginia over this method of carry with the charge being carrying concealed when or where not allowed or without a CC permit. No response/cite to the contrary, I'm done.

I will preach to the choir occasionally but never to the three simian.

Yata hey

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Grapeshot wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

Viewed legally" by whom? You? This is merely the opinion of someone in a great minority who esposes do it my way or you are wrong. A multitude of postings on a particular subject does not make your position more valid. Even if a rogue dept. or LEO were to share your opinion, it does not add to the validity.

Click to expand...

Viewed legally by the criminal justice system, obviously.
What! The entire Dept. of Criminal Justice Services and all LE agencies and departments view, interpert and/or decide what is legal? Gosh darn, golly - here all along I thought that the General Assembly decided what was not legal, that LE depts. were bound to enforce the laws as written, the Attorney General offered interpertation or clarification to these LEs and the courts had the final say on the laws as writtten.

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Viewed and decided are 2 different things - you are missing the point.

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ProShooter wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

Viewed legally" by whom? You? This is merely the opinion of someone in a great minority who esposes do it my way or you are wrong. A multitude of postings on a particular subject does not make your position more valid. Even if a rogue dept. or LEO were to share your opinion, it does not add to the validity.

Click to expand...

Viewed legally by the criminal justice system, obviously.
What! The entire Dept. of Criminal Justice Services and all LE agencies and departments view, interpert and/or decide what is legal? Gosh darn, golly - here all along I thought that the General Assembly decided what was not legal, that LE depts. were bound to enforce the laws as written, the Attorney General offered interpertation or clarification to these LEs and the courts had the final say on the laws as writtten.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Viewed and decided are 2 different things - you are missing the point.

Click to expand...

I'm missing the point? Says the pot to the kettle! :exclaim:
If you can't see it or hear it, why am I wasting my breath. It's for the children our newbies! Someone needs to give them a valid, responsible answer. Letting them chose between info lacking in credibility and tried and true methods is at best difficult for someone of limited experience. The choir is not paying much attention except for a slight chuckle every now and then.

Like plastic guns going thru security and high cap handguns causing crime, so too do your maybe, mights, could be's of Virginia style OCing needs to relegated to status of Urban Legend - it just ain't so!

No cite yet?

Yata hey

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Grapeshot wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

Viewed legally" by whom? You? This is merely the opinion of someone in a great minority who esposes do it my way or you are wrong. A multitude of postings on a particular subject does not make your position more valid. Even if a rogue dept. or LEO were to share your opinion, it does not add to the validity.

Click to expand...

Viewed legally by the criminal justice system, obviously.
What! The entire Dept. of Criminal Justice Services and all LE agencies and departments view, interpert and/or decide what is legal? Gosh darn, golly - here all along I thought that the General Assembly decided what was not legal, that LE depts. were bound to enforce the laws as written, the Attorney General offered interpertation or clarification to these LEs and the courts had the final say on the laws as writtten.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Viewed and decided are 2 different things - you are missing the point.

Click to expand...

I'm missing the point? Says the pot to the kettle! :exclaim:
If you can't see it or hear it, why am I wasting my breath. It's for the children our newbies! Someone needs to give them a valid, responsible answer. Letting them chose between info lacking in credibility and tried and true methods is at best difficult for someone of limited experience. The choir is not paying much attention except for a slight chuckle every now and then.

Like plastic guns going thru security and high cap handguns causing crime, so too do your maybe, mights, could be's of Virginia style OCing needs to relegated to status of Urban Legend - it just ain't so!

No cite yet?

Yata hey

Click to expand...

There is no cite for the manner in which people think, and that is where you are missing the point of all this.

You have your thoughts, and your understanding of the law. I have tried, unsuccessfully to tell you the way that things are often viewed, the way that people think, outside of Utopia. There are those here that see that, and those that dont. Believe what you want to believe. Carry in whatever method suits you. Just understand that there are people, and methodologies that differ vastly from your own.

imported post

ProShooter wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

Viewed legally" by whom? You? This is merely the opinion of someone in a great minority who esposes do it my way or you are wrong. A multitude of postings on a particular subject does not make your position more valid. Even if a rogue dept. or LEO were to share your opinion, it does not add to the validity.

Click to expand...

Viewed legally by the criminal justice system, obviously.
What! The entire Dept. of Criminal Justice Services and all LE agencies and departments view, interpert and/or decide what is legal? Gosh darn, golly - here all along I thought that the General Assembly decided what was not legal, that LE depts. were bound to enforce the laws as written, the Attorney General offered interpertation or clarification to these LEs and the courts had the final say on the laws as writtten.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Viewed and decided are 2 different things - you are missing the point.

Click to expand...

I'm missing the point? Says the pot to the kettle! :exclaim:
If you can't see it or hear it, why am I wasting my breath. It's for the children our newbies! Someone needs to give them a valid, responsible answer. Letting them chose between info lacking in credibility and tried and true methods is at best difficult for someone of limited experience. The choir is not paying much attention except for a slight chuckle every now and then.

Like plastic guns going thru security and high cap handguns causing crime, so too do your maybe, mights, could be's of Virginia style OCing needs to relegated to status of Urban Legend - it just ain't so!

No cite yet?

Yata hey

Click to expand...

There is no cite for the manner in which people think, and that is where you are missing the point of all this.

You have your thoughts, and your understanding of the law. I have tried, unsuccessfully to tell you the way that things are often viewed, the way that people think, outside of Utopia. There are those here that see that, and those that dont. Believe what you want to believe. Carry in whatever method suits you. Just understand that there are people, and methodologies that differ vastly from your own.

Click to expand...

:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

Thanks, I needed that!

Yata hey

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riverrat10k wrote:

I have recently obtained a concealed permit. Before that, step I did much research on the laws and responsibilites of handgun ownership. I carry a little S&W hammerless .38+P. I felt I would "stir up less trouble" by carrying concealed. However, the va. eatery and alcohol laws leave me in quandry. My weapon is so small, I risk concealing it with my love handles!:lollus it is such a small arm, it looks kinda silly in abig leather holster. I hate leaving it in the car. I may join forces with you folks but I am still a bit hesitant. There is great info here at OCDO and I wish to thank many of the posters for your insight and experience. I'll be lurking.

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Your not a STALKER are you? :what:

Cause that would be just great!!!

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lol. was doin' ok 'till the last sentence. Anyone, best place in rich. to buy holsters? Max selection over price.

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riverrat10k wrote:

lol. was doin' ok 'till the last sentence. Anyone, best place in rich. to buy holsters? Max selection over price.

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Southern Gun World on Midlothian, Green Top on Rt. 1 and Town Police Supply on Hull Street probably have the best selection. Compare prices and check out the gun shows too. Sometimes you can get a good deal there.

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ty thats what i thot

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riverrat10k wrote:

lol. was doin' ok 'till the last sentence. Anyone, best place in rich. to buy holsters? Max selection over price.

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Depends what your looking for insofar as construction/material/style.

Nobody has a huge selection because there are an infinite number of styles, quality, fit, IWB, OWB etc, etc. They only stock the most popular weapons fit.

That said probably the best by category is:

Leather - DeGoff's in Mechanicsville

Nylon, like Uncle Mikes - Greentop near Ashland

Kydex - Blackhawk & Fobus - Town Police Supply on 360 W.
& Southern Police Supply 60 W.

Gander Mountain - poor

Dances -near South Park S.C. 95 S - fair

Gun Shows are ify - Show Place shows the best

Your best bet is to find a style that you like, regardless whether or not it is for your weapon and then price shop on line for best deal if you in the market for a popular rig in the "popular" price range.

Almost all shops can order what you want but you can generally get it at least as fast yourself.

Customs or exotics are getting pricey and can have a waiting list.

Yata hey

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I'm beginning to think of this differently after a little thought....

The only way you would really have to get in trouble would be if a cop or anti gunner saw you with the gun. In which case it wouldn't be concealed. If nobody can tell that it is a gun then nobody will ever confront you about it. If they do then they knew it was a gun and therefore it is not concealed.

Right?