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Thread: College Classroom

  1. #1
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    I don't remember seeing this issue addressed here before...

    According to the MSP website, and the back of my CPL, one of the "pistol free areas" isa dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.

    Has there been a clear cut ruling on what would be deemed a classroom? Right now I'm sitting in a computer lab, which is sometimes used for class when they need computers, but is an open lab for the majority of the time. Is this a classroom that I cannot legally carry in?

    I've beenthinking about this for a while. My college has policy prohibiting weapons, but I'm much more concerned about committing a crime than violating a policy here.

    Any thoughts?


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    SQLtables wrote:
    I don't remember seeing this issue addressed here before...

    According to the MSP website, and the back of my CPL, one of the "pistol free areas" isa dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.

    Has there been a clear cut ruling on what would be deemed a classroom? Right now I'm sitting in a computer lab, which is sometimes used for class when they need computers, but is an open lab for the majority of the time. Is this a classroom that I cannot legally carry in?

    I've beenthinking about this for a while. My college has policy prohibiting weapons, but I'm much more concerned about committing a crime than violating a policy here.

    Any thoughts?
    well.... the local colleges around me consider a "computer lab" as being a classroom. If a class could, can, or has at one point in time been held there... then I would have to say no gun for you. As far as violating your colleges policy... it may just rank up there with committing a crime... since you may be removed from attending that school as well as many others. Just my thoughts.

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    THway wrote:
    SQLtables wrote:
    I don't remember seeing this issue addressed here before...

    According to the MSP website, and the back of my CPL, one of the "pistol free areas" isa dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.

    Has there been a clear cut ruling on what would be deemed a classroom? Right now I'm sitting in a computer lab, which is sometimes used for class when they need computers, but is an open lab for the majority of the time. Is this a classroom that I cannot legally carry in?

    I've beenthinking about this for a while. My college has policy prohibiting weapons, but I'm much more concerned about committing a crime than violating a policy here.

    Any thoughts?
    well.... the local colleges around me consider a "computer lab" as being a classroom. If a class could, can, or has at one point in time been held there... then I would have to say no gun for you. As far as violating your colleges policy... it may just rank up there with committing a crime... since you may be removed from attending that school as well as many others. Just my thoughts.
    If employee and or student you lose ! check with collage police employee hand book local prosecutor

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    Safest bet: Don't carry in any buildings on campus
    Slightly less: Carry into hallways, but no furthur.

    I know of no cases off the top of my head where classroom got defined, so its dictionary definition. Which would be "a room where classes are held." Although, my CPL instructor always said, "you don't want to be a test case."

    My gut would say that computer lab is a classroom.

    (IANAL)

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    I'm kind of confused. Ignoring school rules, I had thought that by state law, a CPL holder can OC anywhere as long as it's not prohibited by Federal law. So wouldn't it be okay as far as state law to open carry in a class room if you have a CPL?

    Nuxi, I just saw your location and giggled. Ann Arbor really is terrible for a gun lover. Although, I've met more than a few gun nuts who live there or work there.

    You need to arrange an Ann arbor OC meet.

    Before I moved I wanted to, but I considered it possibly biting off more than we could chew.:?
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    I appreciate the replies. I said that I don't really care about policies because I wanted to get opinions on the law, not the standard "if they have a policy, you can't do it"... I'm going to be graduating the end of September, so it's really not a big issue to me anyway.

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    Michigander wrote:
    I'm kind of confused. Ignoring school rules, I had thought that by state law, a CPL holder can OC anywhere as long as it's not prohibited by Federal law. So wouldn't it be okay as far as state law to open carry in a class room if you have a CPL?

    Nuxi, I just saw your location and giggled. Ann Arbor really is terrible for a gun lover. Although, I've met more than a few gun nuts who live there or work there.

    You need to arrange an Ann arbor OC meet.

    Before I moved I wanted to, but I considered it possibly biting off more than we could chew.:?
    Yes, AFAIK I could OC into a classroom.. legally, that is. Obviously campus safety would have a word or two to say about it... I was looking for opinions on extent of the "pistol free area."

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    Michigander wrote:
    I'm kind of confused. Ignoring school rules, I had thought that by state law, a CPL holder can OC anywhere as long as it's not prohibited by Federal law. So wouldn't it be okay as far as state law to open carry in a class room if you have a CPL?

    Nuxi, I just saw your location and giggled. Ann Arbor really is terrible for a gun lover. Although, I've met more than a few gun nuts who live there or work there.

    You need to arrange an Ann arbor OC meet.

    Before I moved I wanted to, but I considered it possibly biting off more than we could chew.:?
    AS stated some college have laws that supercede almost all safe bet check ,If employee and or student you lose ! check with collage police employee hand book local prosecutor

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    taxwhat wrote:
    Michigander wrote:
    I'm kind of confused. Ignoring school rules, I had thought that by state law, a CPL holder can OC anywhere as long as it's not prohibited by Federal law. So wouldn't it be okay as far as state law to open carry in a class room if you have a CPL?

    Nuxi, I just saw your location and giggled. Ann Arbor really is terrible for a gun lover. Although, I've met more than a few gun nuts who live there or work there.

    You need to arrange an Ann arbor OC meet.

    Before I moved I wanted to, but I considered it possibly biting off more than we could chew.:?
    AS stated some college have laws that supercede almost all safe bet check ,If employee and or student you lose ! check with collage police employee hand book local prosecutor
    Then go to different collage and OC if not prohibited by your school hand book rules on conduct

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    Would you consider a Chemistry Lab a classroom? From one that has to submit the reports to the State on College facilities if it is not an office, bathroom or closet it is more than likely considered a classroom. Even such places as a gym or the library can be considered classrooms. Although the wording is not there, it would be a strong possibility that the buildings would be considered classrooms rather then just the rooms themselves. I doubt that you want to be the test case so be careful. The computer lab would definitely be considered a classroom especially since they have classes in it sometimes.

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    Michigander wrote
    Nuxi, I just saw your location and giggled. Ann Arbor really is terrible for a gun lover. Although, I've met more than a few gun nuts who live there or work there.

    You need to arrange an Ann arbor OC meet.

    Before I moved I wanted to, but I considered it possibly biting off more than we could chew.:?
    I'm only doing it if we can get like 50+ people here to do it right downtown. Safety in numbers theory Our local prosecutor doesn't exactly have the best record on this sort of thing. Although getting a CPL was easy since he refuses to sit on the gun board.

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    nuxi wrote:
    I'm only doing it if we can get like 50+ people here to do it right downtown. Safety in numbers theory Our local prosecutor doesn't exactly have the best record on this sort of thing. Although getting a CPL was easy since he refuses to sit on the gun board.
    50 would be cool, but honestly, I think 8 or 10 would be plenty. That said, given the number of people who showed up in warren, it might be easy to get some pretty substantial numbers.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    A2 OC meet? I'm there!

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    PT111 wrote:
    Would you consider a Chemistry Lab a classroom? From one that has to submit the reports to the State on College facilities if it is not an office, bathroom or closet it is more than likely considered a classroom. Even such places as a gym or the library can be considered classrooms. Although the wording is not there, it would be a strong possibility that the buildings would be considered classrooms rather then just the rooms themselves. I doubt that you want to be the test case so be careful. The computer lab would definitely be considered a classroom especially since they have classes in it sometimes.
    I think any room that teaches college courses would be considered a classroom.

    The rules surrounding OC and CC on a college campus apply only to Part/Full Time Enrolled students and Faculty-(basically anyone employed by the college).
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


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    In regards to an Ann Arbor get together, I am all in favor, I spent 4 years at Umich and really love some things about the city (dislike alot of them too). However I think a get together there would be a great idea, we would certainly make front page of the Michigan Daily (with a certain anti-gun slant to the article though). A gathering near campus might have a big impact, perhaps we could do it on the afternoon of a home football game? Open carry tailgate? In my experience though, the farther you get from campus in Ann Arbor, the less liberal it gets, and you find yourself in farm fields really quickly. While a gathering out towards dexter may be met with alot less adversity, I think getting together right by campus would really send a message. There is a Michigan Second Amendment Club (something like that), I was a member while there but never really participated in much that they did (it was really just a way to carpool to the range), however if they still exist it might be a good idea to contact them if we do something ( I think I still know someone in the club). It would be way cool if an Ann Arbor meeting happens, hopefully I would be able to go.

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    Tucker6900 wrote

    I think any room that teaches college courses would be considered a classroom.

    The rules surrounding OC and CC on a college campus apply only to Part/Full Time Enrolled students and Faculty-(basically anyone employed by the college).
    Most of those university policies apply to all people on campus. Visitors who disobey them would be guilty of trespassing. Atleast in the case of MTU, violation of certain policies is actually a misdemeanor. (See MCL 390.363) I assume that similar rules apply to other state universities.


    This of course assumes that they may regulate such things to begin with, if you want to be the test case and challenge that in court by openly carrying across a campus, be my guest. I'm going to stick with a slightly safer approach.

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    cmdio wrote:
    Open carry tailgate?
    Not being a UMich student I'm not entirely sure, but isn't the normal tailgate location the front lawn of Pioneer HS?

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    Guys and gals,

    Public campuses are a gray area. This is what we have on the info thread. It's from the MSP and is only an opinion.


    The preemption law to which you're referring can be found in MCL 123.1102. That statute generally prohibits a local unit of government from regulating firearms. However, colleges and universities are not local units of government for the purposes of that statute; MCL 123.1101 defines "Local unit of government" as "a city, village, township, or county." Further, various statutesin Chapter 390 of the Michigan Compiled Laws grant state colleges and universities broad authority to enact ordinances (e.g., MCL 390.5 grants that power to the University of Michigan). Therefore, it appears that a university can enact and enforce an ordinance prohibiting a CPL holder from carrying a pistol on campus beyond classrooms and dormitories (see MCL 28.425o - the pistol free zone statute for CPL holders).

    There are a number of non-statutory preemption theories used by the courts. It is possible that a court or the Attorney General may hold that state law does preempt a university ordinance. However, at this time we're not aware of an opinion holding that way.

    Finally, it's worth noting that there's a difference between an ordinance and a policy. A university policy does not carry the force of law, and likely only applies to students, faculty, and employees. If you are a university employee, you are bound by the policy (
    MCL 28.425n allows employers to prohibit employee CPL holders from carrying at work). Sincerely, Sgt. Thomas Deasy, Michigan State Police Executive Resource Section, 714 S. Harrison Rd.
    East Lansing, MI 48823 (517) 336-6441


    I have talked with several pro-gun attorneys about this and the opinions are split, some say the universities can enact their own gun laws and others say they can't. The attorneys that represent certain pro-gun groups in Michigan are in the process of drafting some opinions and trying to get an AG's opinion as well. Until then check with each university about their ordinances. Itmay take a court case to determine if preemption covers public colleges.

    I RECOMMEND CAUTION if thinking about OCing on a campus.

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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