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Thread: New to WA-Question

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    Speaking with a local dealer, he indicated that the 5 day waiting period is a "max time" not a minumum timeframe (no CPL) for new purchases. I've looked at the relevant RCW, but I'm not sure how he came to that conclusion unless I'm reading the RCW incorrectly. Can someone clarify this for me? If a purchase is made on a Sat, is the waiting period up to 5 days or do you wait 5 days no matter what?

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    It could be done quicker if PDgives an "OK" sooner than 5 days. I believe most PD's don't notify of the OK's, in which case it defaults to5 business days. Many dealers are now saying "up to" 10 days due to weekends and holidays.

    BUT...

    If you are new to WA., don't have WA DOL/ID or haven't been a resident for 90 conecutive days, the wait can be up to 60 days.

    From RCW 9.41.090...

    (1) In addition to the other requirements of this chapter, no dealer may deliver a pistol to the purchaser thereof until:

    (a) The purchaser produces a valid concealed pistol license and the dealer has recorded the purchaser's name, license number, and issuing agency, such record to be made in triplicate and processed as provided in subsection (5) of this section. For purposes of this subsection (1)(a), a "valid concealed pistol license" does not include a temporary emergency license, and does not include any license issued before July 1, 1996, unless the issuing agency conducted a records search for disqualifying crimes under RCW 9.41.070 at the time of issuance;

    (b) The dealer is notified in writing by the chief of police or the sheriff of the jurisdiction in which the purchaser resides that the purchaser is eligible to possess a pistol under RCW 9.41.040 and that the application to purchase is approved by the chief of police or sheriff; or

    (c) Five business days, meaning days on which state offices are open, have elapsed from the time of receipt of the application for the purchase thereof as provided herein by the chief of police or sheriff designated in subsection (5) of this section, and, when delivered, the pistol shall be securely wrapped and shall be unloaded. However, if the purchaser does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, the waiting period under this subsection (1)(c) shall be up to sixty days.





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    Yeah, I've been here for more than 90 consecutive days. No problem there. Since I made a purchase on this past Saturday, he told me that at the latest I could pick it up on this Saturday.

    Thanks for the clarification. I wonder if my local PD is processing faster...:? Probably not...

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    wczimmerman wrote:
    Yeah, I've been here for more than 90 consecutive days. No problem there. Since I made a purchase on this past Saturday, he told me that at the latest I could pick it up on this Saturday.

    Thanks for the clarification. I wonder if my local PD is processing faster...:? Probably not...
    Where do you live? And BTW, welcome to the forum!

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    I'm in Renton.

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    wczimmerman wrote:
    I'm in Renton.
    You'll probably get it in the max time allowed for processing then...

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    wczimmerman wrote:
    I'm in Renton.
    Make sure you check out Ben's loans then. One of my favorite spots. Good prices on new/used guns and pretty decent ammo prices as well.

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    Thanks. I'll check them out soon.

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    Follow up question:

    I moved from Texas where I had a CHL for several years and memorized the local laws. I've been reviewing the laws for WA and one thing is not clear to me. In Texas, if a business wants to ban guns from their establishment, they had to post a sign with specific wording in 1" high block letters in a clearly contrasting color in English and Spanish. If any of these parameters were wrong, then it could be considered by the CHL holder as though no sign existed.

    From what I can see for WA, there is no such requirement. There does seem to be a question about the legal weight to any signage posted. I seem to recall something in the code about posting signs to notify those carrying of the intent of the owners to keep them out.

    What's the story here?

    By the way, I'm continually amazed at just how open WA is compared to Texas!

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    No crime in carrying against business owner's wishes. No specific signage requirements if a business decides they don't want guns in their store.

    Defaults to a trespass issue. If they ask you to leave you need to, if you don't you can be charged with trespass, but not any firearm violations.

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    911Boss wrote:
    No crime in carrying against business owner's wishes. No specific signage requirements if a business decides they don't want guns in their store.

    Defaults to a trespass issue. If they ask you to leave you need to, if you don't you can be charged with trespass, but not any firearm violations.
    +1.

    And to directly answer a question you had, signs by businesses carry no weight of law. They can say "no shirt, no shoes, no service." but until they say "Get out!" and you don't, you are not in violation of the law. The only exception to this is the requirement to not enter an area of an establishment that is designated "No Minors" by the liquor control board. You may not enter said area with a firearm, open or concealed. This does not mean you can't enter a restaurant that allows minors, but has a bar or lounge... as long as minors are allowed in the area you are in, you're legal.
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    Another question:

    What RCW (what does that stand for anyway?) do you guys cite for OC to be legal. I've been reading and reading and I understand that something that is not explicitly forbidden is allowed, but if someone (LEO or citizen) asks, what is your response?

    These questions are simply my way of getting the most clarity of the law before I venture out to OC and CC. Coming from Texas, the idea of OC is new.

    I would also appreciate a clarification of "warrants alarm" clause that so many LEO's seem to cite in "motivating" OC'ers to conceal. Would a 1911 in normal mode (cocked and locked) in a belt holster (no suicide straps) be considered to "warrant alarm"?

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    wczimmerman wrote:
    Another question:

    What RCW (what does that stand for anyway?) do you guys cite for OC to be legal. I've been reading and reading and I understand that something that is not explicitly forbidden is allowed, but if someone (LEO or citizen) asks, what is your response?

    These questions are simply my way of getting the most clarity of the law before I venture out to OC and CC. Coming from Texas, the idea of OC is new.

    I would also appreciate a clarification of "warrants alarm" clause that so many LEO's seem to cite in "motivating" OC'ers to conceal. Would a 1911 in normal mode (cocked and locked) in a belt holster (no suicide straps) be considered to "warrant alarm"?
    RCW = Revised Code of Washington: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/

    As for what to say if they ask what law makes it legal, ask in return what law makes it legal to have a fire extinguisher in your kitchen or to wear sunglasses on a sunny day. There is no law making it illegal, therefor it is legal, just like open carry.

    If you read RCW 9.41.270, you will see the full text of the "warrants alarm" law you reference and it's much more specific. You must be acting in a manner, under circumstances and in a time and place that involves an intent to intimidate or warrants alarm for the safety of others. (yes, that is similar to the actual verbage, but not quoted because I'm doing the general idea from memory)

    I highly suggest you read through the pertinent parts of RCW 9.41, many of which are indexed here with some good FAQ's: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/14361.html

    A 1911, cocked and locked, in a hip holster, is perfectly legal to open carry... so long as you don't try to intimidate someone or look like you're trying to draw it in public (with the obvious exception of self-defense and the defense of others from felonious acts).
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    wczimmerman wrote:
    Another question:

    What RCW (what does that stand for anyway?) do you guys cite for OC to be legal. I've been reading and reading and I understand that something that is not explicitly forbidden is allowed, but if someone (LEO or citizen) asks, what is your response?

    These questions are simply my way of getting the most clarity of the law before I venture out to OC and CC. Coming from Texas, the idea of OC is new.

    I would also appreciate a clarification of "warrants alarm" clause that so many LEO's seem to cite in "motivating" OC'ers to conceal. Would a 1911 in normal mode (cocked and locked) in a belt holster (no suicide straps) be considered to "warrant alarm"?
    If there is no law making something illegal, then it is legal in Washington State. There is no law making OC illegal, hence it is legal and Constitutional under the Washington State Constitution. Go here to read washington State gun laws:

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41

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    911Boss wrote:
    wczimmerman wrote:
    I'm in Renton.
    Make sure you check out Ben's loans then. One of my favorite spots. Good prices on new/used guns and pretty decent ammo prices as well.
    Both Wal-Mart and Champion Arms (Kent) have better ammo prices than Ben's. I haven't checked out the prices on firearms, so I can't say anything about that. Ben's does have factory mags at better than factory prices, though.
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

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    Bookman wrote:
    911Boss wrote:
    wczimmerman wrote:
    I'm in Renton.
    Make sure you check out Ben's loans then. One of my favorite spots. Good prices on new/used guns and pretty decent ammo prices as well.
    Both Wal-Mart and Champion Arms (Kent) have better ammo prices than Ben's. I haven't checked out the prices on firearms, so I can't say anything about that. Ben's does have factory mags at better than factory prices, though.
    Depends on what you are buying. Wal-mart is $29.97 for WWB .38 Special, box of 100. Ben's has Blazer Brass in .38 Special for $12.50, box of 50.

    Wal-mart doesn't carry high end SD ammo. Ben's has Double-Tap ranging from $23-$29 a box (50) depending on caliber.

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    wczimmerman wrote:
    Another question:

    What RCW (what does that stand for anyway?) do you guys cite for OC to be legal. I've been reading and reading and I understand that something that is not explicitly forbidden is allowed, but if someone (LEO or citizen) asks, what is your response?

    These questions are simply my way of getting the most clarity of the law before I venture out to OC and CC. Coming from Texas, the idea of OC is new.

    I would also appreciate a clarification of "warrants alarm" clause that so many LEO's seem to cite in "motivating" OC'ers to conceal. Would a 1911 in normal mode (cocked and locked) in a belt holster (no suicide straps) be considered to "warrant alarm"?
    Not my job to tell the officer what laws I am following. The obligation is on him/her to determine what one I am breaking.

    If I am stopped (hasn't happened, yet...), my plan is to cooperate and remain calm. At the appropriate point in the contact, I will ask what I am being detained or arrested for, the names of the officers, and if a supervisor can respond.

    I don't hink puffing up and being confrontational is going to help the situation at all. Anyone who has watched an episode or two of COPS knows that you ain't going to win with defiance. I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly don't want to test ride a Taser. "Yes sir, no sir, here is my DL". After it is over and done with THEN I will decide how to respond.

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    This has been very interesting for me, especially being new to the state. I've been reading and researching for many days now. I saw that a member here is dealing with a legal fight over OC at Seatac. Does the federal ruling down in Georgia on the Atlanta airport have any implications for the remaining airports, Seatac included (other than the request to the TSA to ban it nationwide)?

    I hope this thread proves helpful to future members that may have similar questions.

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    wczimmerman wrote:
    This has been very interesting for me, especially being new to the state. I've been reading and researching for many days now. I saw that a member here is dealing with a legal fight over OC at Seatac. Does the federal ruling down in Georgia on the Atlanta airport have any implications for the remaining airports, Seatac included (other than the request to the TSA to ban it nationwide)?

    I hope this thread proves helpful to future members that may have similar questions.
    That ruling had to do with the new Georgia state law back there that allowed carry at the airport. Since ours was already in place and was not included in the case then no. Our state law is very clear. RCW 9.41.300

    (e) The restricted access areas of a commercial service airport designated in the airport security plan approved by the federal transportation security administration, including passenger screening checkpoints at or beyond the point at which a passenger initiates the screening process. These areas do not include airport drives, general parking areas and walkways, and shops and areas of the terminal that are outside the screening checkpoints and that are normally open to unscreened passengers or visitors to the airport. Any restricted access area shall be clearly indicated by prominent signs indicating that firearms and other weapons are prohibited in the area.


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    wczimmerman wrote:
    This has been very interesting for me, especially being new to the state. I've been reading and researching for many days now. I saw that a member here is dealing with a legal fight over OC at Seatac. Does the federal ruling down in Georgia on the Atlanta airport have any implications for the remaining airports, Seatac included (other than the request to the TSA to ban it nationwide)?

    I hope this thread proves helpful to future members that may have similar questions.
    There is probably lots of information missing (from both sides) on the recent SeaTac case. Not to doubt Mainsail, but as they say there are always three side to every story; His, hers, and the truth.

    Most notable issue for me is that last I read they were citing Mainsail under RCW 9.41.270, the infamous carrying "...in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons."

    If they actually charge him and prosecute (which I bet they won't), it just may be the test case some folks have been hoping for.

    If they don't, I think it is a foot in the door for Lonnie to give them the training bulletin speech and get things squared away.

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