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Thread: Clarification on shipping

  1. #1
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    Here's my question: Can I without an FFL ship direct to an out-of-state FFL dealer? Do I need a copy of their FFL to do this?
    Or am I obliged to take a modern firearm to my FFL dealer to ship to one out-of-state?

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    You can ship directly providing:

    1- They will accept from an individual (some choose not to).

    2- You use UPS or FedEx overnight service (UPS/FedEx rule, not law).



    You do not have to have a copy of the FFL to ship, but for your protection you should get one or at least the FFL info so you can confirm it using the ATF EzCheck website.

    Sometimes it is cheaper to let an FFL ship it out. FFL's can send via the US Mail (non FFL's cannot). UPS/FedEx overnight is especially expensive right now with the fuel surcharges (adding as much as $20 to the cost). If the firearm will fit in the flat rate ($12.95) USPS Priority box, it can be pretty reasonable. I recently sent out a handgun via an FFL for $42 ($25 fee, $17 postage w/insurance). It would have been over $80 to send via FedEx.

    If you go the FFL route, they will generally want a copy of receiving FFL license (fax/email copies are ok).

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    Rifles or shotguns can ship USPS from individual to FFL, also, FFL willing as above.

    Bruce

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    Long guns do not need to go overnight air, only handguns. Long guns can go by truck. I just had to ship my new Marlin 1894 back to Marlin for a feed jam issue. It took a week but only cost $17 as apposed to the last pistol I shipped which was about $70 for the overnight flight.

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    Can someone post a citation for these rules please?

    I seem to remember, years ago, that one could ship a long gun to oneself if, for instance, you were going hunting out-of-state and didn't want to carry the gun with you. That may have changed, or simply be incorrect, since I can't find any reference.

    Please correct me and give a citation.

    Many thanks.

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    Go to the ATF web site, the rules are posted there. You can ship a gun to yourself in care of another person. I have done this several times when going out of state for a hunt. The big thing is the person "in care of" cannot open the package.(?)

    Jim

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    Ajetpilot wrote:
    Can someone post a citation for these rules please?

    I seem to remember, years ago, that one could ship a long gun to oneself if, for instance, you were going hunting out-of-state and didn't want to carry the gun with you. That may have changed, or simply be incorrect, since I can't find any reference.

    Please correct me and give a citation.

    Many thanks.
    Well, I will tell you what I go by. FedEx. I take the gun to them and they have made the determination of how to ship it. Hence, I figure they will not be violating any laws while doing it following their corporate policies. Looking thru federal laws makes the state RCWs look like an afternoon picnic with a good bookand the ATF is like the IRS, even if they tell you something, they can decide it is wrong and hang your butt for following their advice. Look at the guy in jail for a dirty AR doubling off some rounds. ATF used to say that this didn't make a weapon a machine gun. It does now.

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    Ajetpilot wrote:
    Can someone post a citation for these rules please?
    http://http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b8]http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b8]http://http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b8[/url]


    Text removed, link answers question.


    Your Welcome.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    (When clicking on any of the following links, be very, very pacient. The ATF website is so slow taht you will think you have taken a step back in time to dial-up days. Click the link; go make a sandwich; when you return you might have the page displayed.)-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Thanks, Jim. Good suggestion. Here is the ATF website for firearms:

    http://atf.treas.gov/firearms/index.htm

    Here is an excellent source of general info reguarding firearms:

    http://atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faqindex.htm

    Here is where I found the answer to shipping questions:

    http://atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b7

    And here is the answer to my question:
    (B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other

    lawful activity?

    Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the

    State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package

    should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package

    and take possession of the firearm.


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    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    Thank you Bear 45/70,and Agent19. I was writting my post while you were posting.

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    OK, next iteration:
    I found a Ruger Old Army cross-country. Does that require an FFL to ship? It'd be a modern black-powder arm, so off to chase rules again....

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    Code:
    OK, 18USC Section 921 defines antique firearm:
    
    (16) The term "antique firearm" means - 
    
    (A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock,
    flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system)
    manufactured in or before 1898; or
    
    (B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if
    such replica - 
    
    (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or
    
    conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
    
    (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition
    
    which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which
    
    is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial
    
    trade; or
    
    (C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle
    loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black
    powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition.
    
    Now, to find out if an "antique firearm" reqires FFL shipping. I kinda remember not....
    
    
    
    Edit: Found the rest:
    'Antique' firearms need not be shipped to a licensed dealer. These can be shipped directly to the buyer. An antique firearm is a firearm built in or before 1898, or a replica thereof.

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    'Antique' firearms need not be shipped to a licensed dealer. These can be shipped directly to the buyer. An antique firearm is a firearm built in or before 1898, or a replica thereof.
    Hey, wait--does this mean I should be able to buy a Marlin 1895 in 45/70, or an 1894 as long as it's chambered in .45 Colt and not that newfangled .357, and have it shipped to my door? If not, why not?




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    Because the ammunition is commercially available in the United States and through normal channels of trade.

    I wonder how "commercially available" and "normal channels of trade" are defined though. I have a rifle in 6.5x53r which also was built in 1896 so I'm covered by antique anyhow, but rifles in that chambering were built through WWII. Good luck finding any ammo though. Old Western Scrounger makes some with modded .303 brit cases or with brass imported from Australia at an insane price, or also offers Aussie produced ammo with the correct headstamp, but again at a huge price. I could argue that 6.5x53r is not commercially produced in this country, but rather in very small batches nor is available through normal channels of trade in that I have to special order it through a specialty shop, but who knows.

    OTOH I don't see too many drive bys with old Dutch Mannlicher rifles so perhaps the ATF doesn't care.

  16. #16
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    I don't think so. As I read it earlier, it only applied to NON-cartridge firearms, meant originally for black powder. Tho .45LC and .45/70 were black powder, they were cartridge arms, not cap and ball or muzzleload.


    kparker wrote:
    'Antique' firearms need not be shipped to a licensed dealer. These can be shipped directly to the buyer. An antique firearm is a firearm built in or before 1898, or a replica thereof.
    Hey, wait--does this mean I should be able to buy a Marlin 1895 in 45/70, or an 1894 as long as it's chambered in .45 Colt and not that newfangled .357, and have it shipped to my door? If not, why not?



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    sv_libertarian wrote:
    OTOH I don't see too many drive bys with old Dutch Mannlicher rifles so perhaps the ATF doesn't care.
    Shhh
    Don't give the gang-bangers ideas....
    They'll be out scooping up Martini-Henry falling blocks :P

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    kparker wrote:
    'Antique' firearms need not be shipped to a licensed dealer. These can be shipped directly to the buyer. An antique firearm is a firearm built in or before 1898, or a replica thereof.
    Hey, wait--does this mean I should be able to buy a Marlin 1895 in 45/70, or an 1894 as long as it's chambered in .45 Colt and not that newfangled .357, and have it shipped to my door? If not, why not?


    Can you say cross bolt safety? Beside the new 1894 and 1895 are not the same as the original 1894 and 1895. The original 1895 ceased production in 1915. The new1895 is based off the Model 336 which is based on the Model 1936, first built in 1936. The original 1894 ceased production in 1934. The new Model 1894 began production in 1969.

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    Yeah, I forgot the part about center-fire chamberings having to be for obsolete calibers before it's considered an antique.

    And Bear's got a good point--while one could argue that minor "safety" upgrades* don't invalidate something being a replica, when the party you're arguing with is the BATF, well..... you basically don't want to have that argument, do you?


    [line]*Not trying to start an argument about cross-bolt safeties on lever-action rifles, really I'm not--I even put scare-quotes around the word "safety".



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    kparker wrote:
    Yeah, I forgot the part about center-fire chamberings having to be for obsolete calibers before it's considered an antique.

    And Bear's got a good point--while one could argue that minor "safety" upgrades* don't invalidate something being a replica, when the party you're arguing with is the BATF, well..... you basically don't want to have that argument, do you?



    [line]
    *Not trying to start an argument about cross-bolt safeties on lever-action rifles, really I'm not--I even put scare-quotes around the word "safety".

    On the Levergun and Marlin forums the majority "dislike" the "Cross Bolt Safety". TheCBS even has a kit available to remove it from the gun. I have with and without andMarlins and don't really have an issue with it, at least yet. The ones that really hate it are the guys who have dropped a hammer on the CBS and missed a deer because of their forgetfulness.

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    I just "disabled" mine in place with an o-ring around the shaft. The side that sticks out when the safety is off has a bit of a flange to it, or a bit of an indentation (I've never actually completely disassembled it) and the o-ring stays there pretty securely. It adds enough friction that, in my estimation, my chances of accidentally bumping the safety ON is greatly reduced, but in the event I really DO need it for some reason I could.

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