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Thread: open carry in MI.

  1. #1
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    A lot of the officers in Mi. are not aware of this law and you could be arrested. I am not saying you will be convicted of anything...but you will still go through the hassel.

    Was also told that if a bad guy should see your weapon he could come up from behind and bop you and take your weapon, among other things. Also if someone shoud just lie and say you threatened them with it, you are in a world poop.

    What do most of you out there say? Is it worth it?

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Welcome to the site!

    I find it amuzing that the warren cops would be so anti OC considering all that's happened. But hey, Detectives ARE professional liars and manipulators.

    Anyway, I don't know of a single case of an OCer being disarmed by anyone other than the police. In a level 2 or 3 retention holster it's about impossible anyway.

    As for being worth it, if you are hassled to any large degree by police, you will have a good lawsuit possibility.

    As for a false accuzation of threats, in the unlikely situation where that might happen, and it's another thing I've never heard of, you could very easily get polygraphed and have the charges dropped. This stuff is all gibberish.

    Is it worth it to keep you and your loved ones safe while at the same time promoting constitutionaly guaranteed rights? Of course it is!
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    ackzun wrote:
    A lot of the officers in Mi. are not aware of this law and you could be arrested. I am not saying you will be convicted of anything...but you will still go through the hassel.

    Was also told that if a bad guy should see your weapon he could come up from behind and bop you and take your weapon, among other things. Also if someone shoud just lie and say you threatened them with it, you are in a world poop.

    What do most of you out there say? Is it worth it?
    I suggest you do some reading as these concerns of yours have been addressed ad nauseam.

    My thoughts on being disarmed by a bad guy while OCing.

    Of the thousands of hours people have OCed across the country we have not found any cases where this has happened to a citizen (officers, security guards yes, but not citizens). Having said that, is it possible to have your gun taken from you while OCing? Yes, but let’s talk about possibility and probability.

    Most anything is possible, but is it probable? The chances you are in the same proximity of a criminal that is desperate for a gun is almost nil. So the chances are slim that you would be faced with this situation.

    Let’s look at the "what if" scenarios. Even if you were that unlucky, that person has to physically take the weapon from you. He could catch you unaware and knock you unconscious and then take your weapon, but being aware while OCing is always prudent, and because you are typically more conscious while OCing most OCers are more aware of the people around them. Or, he could just try and grab your gun from your holster, which is why a good retention holster is recommended. If someone does grab your gun and tries to take it from your holster you are not just going to stand idly by and let him remove the weapon, you will be resisting with all your strength.

    Again the lose of your weapon could happen, but the chances of it happening are remote at best. I think that the weapon snatch is a myth perpetuated by those opposed to OC. Let’s use some critical thinking when examining the pros and cons of OC. The same argument is used in "you’ll be the first one shot" myth, show me the data.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    As was posted before by someone else on this subject of being disarmed, cops have their guns grabbed a lot, but it's a known fact that their last resort is to shoot someone. They are trained to arrest, not kill first, then fill out paperwork, with shooting being the last thing they'd ever try. With us, at least the appearance is that our first resort will be to pull our guns and pop anyone who attacks us or other innocent people. To a criminal, we probably look a lot more crazy and trigger happy than the average cop. It's not neccesarily true, but it probably appears that way. At least it's the best explanation I know of for why OCers don't have their guns snatched.

    I hope one day the police in Michigan will realize this stuff, recognise that we are their friends like they do in my current state of residence, Arizona, and encourage open carry.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    ackzun wrote:
    A lot of the officers in Mi. are not aware of this law and you could be arrested. I am not saying you will be convicted of anything...but you will still go through the hassel.

    Was also told that if a bad guy should see your weapon he could come up from behind and bop you and take your weapon, among other things. Also if someone shoud just lie and say you threatened them with it, you are in a world poop.

    What do most of you out there say? Is it worth it?
    Welcome to OCDO!!

    Please add your location to your profile.

    If I was open carrying, what would they legally arrest me for? The legality of MI Open Carry has already been beaten to death. And I think youll find that most members of OCDO will say that OC is worth it. Take the time to read "Michigan Open Carry Information" post. Youll learn alot about it.
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


    The statements made in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of OCDO or its members.

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    Also see this thread on Warren. But the police will seldom say you should open carry.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/14935.html


    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    ackzun wrote:
    A lot of the officers in Mi. are not aware of this law and you could be arrested. I am not saying you will be convicted of anything...but you will still go through the hassel.

    Was also told that if a bad guy should see your weapon he could come up from behind and bop you and take your weapon, among other things. Also if someone shoud just lie and say you threatened them with it, you are in a world poop.

    What do most of you out there say? Is it worth it?
    A lot of officers are unaware, but most of those officers seem quick to learn, either by the citizen,a supervisor, or a call to the PA clearing things up for them. Not saying they won't try to lecture or editorialize, but an unlawful arrest is possible but not as likely as some might think.

    I've been told bad guys also seethe outline of wallets in pockets andpurses hanging from ladies arms, andwilltry to come up from behind and bop you and take those too. One should be situationally aware AT ALL TIMES in public. If you are, you and your gun are going to be fine, and you don't have to give up being prepared for self-defense.

    If someone lies about you threatening them, guess what the biggest hole in their story is going to be? You. Speak truthfully tothe police, if you choose to speak to them. Without more objective evidence such as physical wounds from an altercation,other witnesses, or videotape, it's a "he said/she said" situation. Believe it or not, most police officers aren't the gullible type.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Seems funny (to ME anyways) that anyone in Warren would have reservations regarding OC. That PD is well aware OC is legal. Out of the 50 - 75 people that were just in Warren OC'ing, ONE person was temporarily detained. In my personal opinion he brought that on himself. None the less, his weapon was returned to him and he was sent on his way.

    The first mistake MOST people new to OC make is to call their local cop shop and start asking questions to the misinformed yahoo that answers the phone. There is absolutely NO need to do so.

    Quick story for you ackzun. Macomb County Sheriff told me i would/could be arrested for violating CPL rules/regs by wearing my pistol on my hip in its holster. "He" said that since i do not have my CPL, and the holster partially concealed it i would be in violation. The state says however that without a CPL in order to carry it MUST be in a holster, and in plain view at ALL times. Who do "you" think is right?

    The fact that MCS (or ANY department for that matter) doesn't want to deal with the calls for lawful OC, the fact that MOST of them while off duty are CC'ers and the fact that most CC'ers don't believe in OC or OC'ers rights is ALL irrelevant! The law is the law plain and simple. You just might get arrested for lawful OC by a misinformed LEO. That doesn't mean it will stick. The recent dismissal of charges in Grand Haven proves just that.

    Myself personally......I would GLADLY go to jail to defend your rights and mine!

    EDIT: spelling

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    warlockmatized wrote:
    Seems funny (to ME anyways) that anyone in Warren would have reservations regarding OC. That PD is well aware OC is legal. Out of the 50 - 75 people that were just in Warren OC'ing, ONE person was temporarily detained. In my personal opinion he brought that on himself. None the less, his weapon was returned to him and he was sent on his way.

    The first mistake MOST people new to OC make is to call their local cop shop and start asking questions to the misinformed yahoo that answers the phone. There is absolutely NO need to do so.

    Quick story for you ackzun. Macomb County Sheriff told me i would/could be arrested for violating CPL rules/regs by wearing my pistol on my hip in its holster. "He" said that since i do not have my CPL, and the holster partially concealed it i would be in violation. The state says however that without a CPL in order to carry it MUST be in a holster, and in plain view at ALL times. Who do "you" think is right?

    The fact that MCS (or ANY department for that matter) doesn't want to deal with the calls for lawful OC, the fact that MOST of them while off duty are CC'ers and the fact that most CC'ers don't believe in OC or OC'ers rights is ALL irrelevant! The law is the law plain and simple. You just might get arrested for lawful OC by a misinformed LEO. That doesn't mean it will stick. The recent dismissal of charges in Grand Haven proves just that.

    Myself personally......I would GLADLY go to jail to defend your rights and mine!

    EDIT: spelling
    Just to add to this so there is no confusion for anyone or if a LEO tries to tell you otherwise.
    "Per Attorney General's opinion #3158 dated February 14, 1945, a holster, in plain view, is not considered concealed."


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    Generaldet wrote:
    warlockmatized wrote:
    Seems funny (to ME anyways) that anyone in Warren would have reservations regarding OC. That PD is well aware OC is legal. Out of the 50 - 75 people that were just in Warren OC'ing, ONE person was temporarily detained. In my personal opinion he brought that on himself. None the less, his weapon was returned to him and he was sent on his way.

    The first mistake MOST people new to OC make is to call their local cop shop and start asking questions to the misinformed yahoo that answers the phone. There is absolutely NO need to do so.

    Quick story for you ackzun. Macomb County Sheriff told me i would/could be arrested for violating CPL rules/regs by wearing my pistol on my hip in its holster. "He" said that since i do not have my CPL, and the holster partially concealed it i would be in violation. The state says however that without a CPL in order to carry it MUST be in a holster, and in plain view at ALL times. Who do "you" think is right?

    The fact that MCS (or ANY department for that matter) doesn't want to deal with the calls for lawful OC, the fact that MOST of them while off duty are CC'ers and the fact that most CC'ers don't believe in OC or OC'ers rights is ALL irrelevant! The law is the law plain and simple. You just might get arrested for lawful OC by a misinformed LEO. That doesn't mean it will stick. The recent dismissal of charges in Grand Haven proves just that.

    Myself personally......I would GLADLY go to jail to defend your rights and mine!

    EDIT: spelling
    Just to add to this so there is no confusion for anyone or if a LEO tries to tell you otherwise.
    "Per Attorney General's opinion #3158 dated February 14, 1945, a holster, in plain view, is not considered concealed."



    Also, AG Opinion 7101.

    3158, is still used today, IIRC, mainly by the DNR. Some have/will argue due to 3158 being 63 years old that it is somehow void. :?


    ETA: Found the Thread from May 31, 2006, where I posted 3158 and some replies.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/93.html


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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    And the US Constitution is over 230 years old, it's not void in my eyes.

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    dougwg wrote:
    And the US Constitution is over 230 years old, it's not void in my eyes.
    Exactly!!!

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    I am a warren resident and opened carried a lot since the picnic and the police still say they are going to arrest me for something. I dont mind spending a night in jail, but when you start factoring in attorney fees and the possibility of loosing my cpl its almost like fighting a loosing battle unless you have deep pockets.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    fighting a loosing battle unless you have deep pockets.

    And that's exactly what the legal system counts on! Intimidation by badge and costs. With Grand Haven as a current example; andthe possibility of winning a good financial judgement, he WILL have deep pockets available for the next foolish prosecutor who wants to push the point of stupidity.

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    normmechanic wrote:
    I am a warren resident and opened carried a lot since the picnic and the police still say they are going to arrest me for something. I dont mind spending a night in jail, but when you start factoring in attorney fees and the possibility of loosing my cpl its almost like fighting a loosing battle unless you have deep pockets.
    Who has lost a CPL for obeying the law and openly carrying? Cite?

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    normmechanic wrote:
    I am a warren resident and opened carried a lot since the picnic and the police still say they are going to arrest me for something. I dont mind spending a night in jail, but when you start factoring in attorney fees and the possibility of loosing my cpl its almost like fighting a loosing battle unless you have deep pockets.
    Just be squeaky clean and you have no worries. You can be arrested for anything, but you most likely will not be prosecuted. Besides we tend to stand by our members. Members here raised over $1500 in 30 hours for Mr. Fetter to help in his defense. Speak truth to authority!
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    normmechanic wrote:
    I am a warren resident and opened carried a lot since the picnic and the police still say they are going to arrest me for something. . . .
    Document everything you remember about every incidentwhere an officersaid he/she will be looking for an opportunity touse his/herarrest powers on you. Include a name, badge number, or at least a description of the officer. File these details with formal complaints submitted to the PD. Do a little research on other agencies at the state or federal level who you can also submit these complaints to for investigation.

    Always create a paper trail if you suspect foul play from anyone. It pays off many times, in the end.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    DanM wrote:
    normmechanic wrote:
    I am a warren resident and opened carried a lot since the picnic and the police still say they are going to arrest me for something. . . .
    Document everything you remember about every incidentwhere an officersaid he/she will be looking for an opportunity touse his/herarrest powers on you. Include a name, badge number, or at least a description of the officer. File these details with formal complaints submitted to the PD. Do a little research on other agencies at the state or federal level who you can also submit these complaints to for investigation.

    Always create a paper trail if you suspect foul play from anyone. It pays off many times, in the end.
    And get a digital voice recorder, preferably one with capability to download to your computer. Always carry it with you (might get a mic for it also that clips to your collar).

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