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Can't decide, .40 Walther or .45 Sig

demnogis

demnogis

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I'm stuck on which to get. The Sig Sauer .45 I've had my eye on for a looooooong time is roughly $1200 MSRP but a little more than $800 in excellent used shape. The Walther .40 my dad has recommended to me runs for about $800ish MSRP and maybe $500ish excellent used.

In your experience, which would provide a better shooting experience (at the range!). I've been told that since the .40 is a smaller caliber you can get a few more shots off in the same time and have them be more accurate than the .45 which will have more recoil. I've used a Colt 1911 .45 multiple times, a .357 mag and also a 22 (great differences). I'm curious as to how the .40 will compare to the .45. Many reviews have stated the Sig is one of the most accurate .45's on the market.

Also, when I OC I will have hydro shocks loaded. Given that fact, I think the .45 will have more stopping power than the .40, but which would be the best choice overall?

Thanks for your input.

~B
 
C

cREbralFIX

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demnogis wrote:
I'm stuck on which to get. The Sig Sauer .45 I've had my eye on for a looooooong time is roughly $1200 MSRP but a little more than $800 in excellent used shape. The Walther .40 my dad has recommended to me runs for about $800ish MSRP and maybe $500ish excellent used.

In your experience, which would provide a better shooting experience (at the range!). I've been told that since the .40 is a smaller caliber you can get a few more shots off in the same time and have them be more accurate than the .45 which will have more recoil. I've used a Colt 1911 .45 multiple times, a .357 mag and also a 22 (great differences). I'm curious as to how the .40 will compare to the .45. Many reviews have stated the Sig is one of the most accurate .45's on the market.

Also, when I OC I will have hydro shocks loaded. Given that fact, I think the .45 will have more stopping power than the .40, but which would be the best choice overall?

Thanks for your input.

~B
Click to expand...

In this instance, making a decision based upon what you were told is not the best way to go about it. Shoot both guns--at least 100 rounds through each. Any of the SIG P220 handguns will be about the same so long as the barrel length is the same (3.9", 4.4", or the match 5").

You will find, in general, that 40 S&W is more "snappy" while the 45 ACP is more of a "push". There will be variances between guns of the same caliber. For example, a Glock 23 is terrible for me, but a SIG P229 or S&W M&P 40 is just fine.

Rent an example of both and put some rounds downrange. The answer will be obvious to you.

But, if you want a definite answer: SIG P220...hands down. There are now several variants to choose from: compact, carry, standard, and match. It's easy to reload 45 ACP and the gun will handle a variety of bullet types.
 
D

Dustin

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cREbralFIX wrote:
Shoot both guns--at least 100 rounds through each.
Click to expand...
Must be nice to have that option.

demnogis wrote:
Given that fact, I think the .45 will have more stopping power than the .40,
Click to expand...


What makes you think that's a fact ?

Have you ever compared the balistics for Energy delivered ?

Bigger doesn't mean better when it comes to bullets and energy.
 
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cREbralFIX

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Well, if the guns in CA cost MSRP ( :shock: ), then he'll definitely want to spend some money testing them out.

Of course, he should just buy both :celebrate
 
A

Alwayspacking

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Dustin wrote:
cREbralFIX wrote:
Shoot both guns--at least 100 rounds through each.
Click to expand...
Must be nice to have that option.

demnogis wrote:
Given that fact, I think the .45 will have more stopping power than the .40,
Click to expand...


What makes you think that's a fact ?

Have you ever compared the balistics for Energy delivered ?

Bigger doesn't mean better when it comes to bullets and energy.
Click to expand...

Just tonight I was thinking that if a person was shot with a .45ACPa .40cal or a .44 Magin the same place and not hit in the brain, spine or heart, the guy could possible continuethe attack, but die later from blood lose, shock whatever. What I am getting at is no matter what you shot someone with, if you do not hit them in the best spot to stop a advance they could continue their attack no matter the round you use. and a bullet does not knock people down. if they do drop it is because of where they were hit or how many times they got hit, or from the pain that just shuts down everything. You can't go wrong with a deep penetrating round.

These are just my thoughts on rounds, take it with a grain of salt:D
 
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cREbralFIX

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Agreed...never count on a one shot stop. That's marketing BS. Be liberal with your bullets!
 
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357luvr

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As others have said the .40 will be more of a snap and the .45 will be more of a push. If carrying a pistol I choose to carry the .40 based on the fact that I now know first hand that you can never depend on your first shot to be the last shot. I choose to put myself in an imaginary situation before deciding on whether or not I will carry any particular weapon. Basically, I imagine that I'm being attacked by 3+ BGs. If I can't take out (or at least stun long enough for a reload)all 3 BEFORE a reload, I won't carry the weapon. That's my choice and ritual but I also wouldn't carry a 9mm unless it was a pocket pistol like the LCP. Either way, practice, prepare, and (if it's your cup of tea) pray.

Stay safe.
 
A

Alwayspacking

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357luvr wrote:
As others have said the .40 will be more of a snap and the .45 will be more of a push. If carrying a pistol I choose to carry the .40 based on the fact that I now know first hand that you can never depend on your first shot to be the last shot. I choose to put myself in an imaginary situation before deciding on whether or not I will carry any particular weapon. Basically, I imagine that I'm being attacked by 3+ BGs. If I can't take out (or at least stun long enough for a reload)all 3 BEFORE a reload, I won't carry the weapon. That's my choice and ritual but I also wouldn't carry a 9mm unless it was a pocket pistol like the LCP. Either way, practice, prepare, and (if it's your cup of tea) pray.

Stay safe.
Click to expand...
Yep me to. I think of me facing multiple attackers and that's why I bought the XDm and not another .45acp with less shots.. Where the .40 lacks in round size it makes up for it in round count.
 
3

357luvr

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Alwayspacking wrote:
Where the .40 lacks in round size it makes up for it in round count.
Click to expand...

Perfect way of putting it!

Edit to add; Although I do like at least the IDEA of the XD that's capable of holing like 13+1 rounds. However if you're looking for maximum firepower from a pistol as opposed to a revolver then you can't go wrong with the G20. Glock reliability = 'nuff said! 10mm firepower which is equivalent to at least a 357 = IMHO the best pistol cartridge out there! Add in the 15+1 capacity and you've got to love the G20. About the only bad thing that can be said about the gun is the beer can sized grip that it takes to hold the darn thing.

Me personally, I prefer a 44 revolver with 6 rounds. That's 2 rounds into 3 targets and that's enough energy to slow down anyone. It may not kill them right away but that's where a short retreat while reloading practice comes into play. My line of thinking is that if they're hit center mass with 2 240gr. Speer GoldDot rounds and still coming for me after I do the same to 2 of his/it/their friends then I might want to just keep on trucking after the reload. Also moving is never a bad thing and often a good if not vital thing during a gunfight and if you move, the best move is whichever one that puts more distance between you and the target/attacker. So instead of just standing there like an idiot while doing a reload, MOVE!!! That way by the time you've stopped and/or reached cover you'll make it that much easier to determine whether the BG is still a threat or not. If he gets half way to you and collapses, then no he's no longer a threat. But if he's still charging you and/or within the all mighty 21' distance, either keep moving or keep shooting!
 
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grampayeehaa

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Both Sig and Walther make excelent pistols. I think if I had to make the choice between the both of them I would give the nod to the Sig. I would also opt for the 45 over the 40. I like to make bigger holes. Another firearms manufacturer you might want to look at is Taurus. I own a millenium Pro in 45acp and found it to be light carrying, user friendly, exceptionally accurate and the sights are easy to see and use. Another thing in its favor is it is hundreds of dollars less. Another thing, as long as we are talking 45, all that hoopla about all those hyper hollow point ammo is horse droppings. Even if you could get the bullet to come out of the barrel at 1000 fps., that is still 100 fps short of the minimal 1100 fps needed for reliable bullet expansion. I load semi wadcutters in mine. Round nose and non-expanding hollow points push the flesh aside and make only a small wound channel. Semi wadcutters act like cookey cutters. Bigger holes bleed faster and transmit more bullet energy.
 
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Dustin

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grampayeehaa wrote:
I think if I had to make the choice between the both of them I would give the nod to the Sig.
Click to expand...


Same here. I've fired a couple mags thru aWalther P99, and the same for a SIG P226.

Both great weapons, but the Walther is too light IMO. Follow up shots or slower b/c of the split seond difference it takes to get back on target from recoil.

The SIG, was awesome though. It felt snappy and follow up shots were easier as well as double taps. It also feels alot different b/c it's not considered a POLYMER pistol or plastic pistol.

That's the real difference here. SIG - Metal Walther - Plastic

You wants's something very light or something that feels more solid in your hand.

I'd go with the SIG, being that's your options.



357luvr wrote:
can't go wrong with the G20.
Click to expand...



Umm, That's not even an option so try and stay on topic please.

It's between a SIG or Walther. .45 or 40 S&W

Not Glock 10mm ;)


Plus ONE of the articles I've read about Glock 10mm doesn't impress me much.

Haven Police Ditch Glocks After Two Explode - http://www.theledger.com/article/20080313/NEWS/803130481

 
demnogis

demnogis

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Dustin, you missed the sentance right before that one, the fact that whichever pistol I decide to purchase I will be running hydroshock ammunition.

Dustin wrote
demnogis wrote:
Given that fact, I think the .45 will have more stopping power than the .40,
Click to expand...
What makes you think that's a fact ?
Click to expand...
Thank you everyone for your input. I believe there used to be a range here in Santa Ana that was both a dealer/store and indoor range combined. I'll do my best to see if at the next gun show I can put a few dozen rounds through both the Walther .40 and Sig .45.

There has also been the comment of comparisons between physics in bullet types, etc. I've shot both standard copper-jacketed lead rounds and hydroshocks. If you want a visual representation I believe you can find photos and videos online. From my shooting experiences the hydroshocks would do better as an incapacitative round. I've always been taught that should you have to draw (and fire) at a BG, that you want to subdue or incapacitate them first, killing them is not the first (nor is it always the right) solution to the problem. I prefer better stopping power over lethality.

Final note... I don't think I can have more than 10 in a mag in California. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
 
A

Alwayspacking

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demnogis wrote:
Dustin, you missed the sentance right before that one, the fact that whichever pistol I decide to purchase I will be running hydroshock ammunition.

Dustin wrote
demnogis wrote:
Given that fact, I think the .45 will have more stopping power than the .40,
Click to expand...
What makes you think that's a fact ?
Click to expand...
Thank you everyone for your input. I believe there used to be a range here in Santa Ana that was both a dealer/store and indoor range combined. I'll do my best to see if at the next gun show I can put a few dozen rounds through both the Walther .40 and Sig .45.

There has also been the comment of comparisons between physics in bullet types, etc. I've shot both standard copper-jacketed lead rounds and hydroshocks. If you want a visual representation I believe you can find photos and videos online. From my shooting experiences the hydroshocks would do better as an incapacitative round. I've always been taught that should you have to draw (and fire) at a BG, that you want to subdue or incapacitate them first, killing them is not the first (nor is it always the right) solution to the problem. I prefer better stopping power over lethality.

Final note... I don't think I can have more than 10 in a mag in California. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
Click to expand...


I also use Federal Hydroshocks with God Dot's I mix them, Also I am going to throw some FMJ. Never know if the round will have to pass through a door or wall of my house.

Right shot to stop the threat first, but sometimes beingshot doesresults tragedy.

Oh I had a 10mm and I loved it.
 
deepdiver

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The P220 has an 8 rd mag unless you get a 10 rd extended mag. The P99 has a 12 rd mag normally, but in CA a 10 rd mag as I understand. So capacity really comes down to 8+1 or 10+1.

I have handled the P99 and liked it although I have not yet had the opportunity to shoot one. If I were looking at a P99 I would also be checking out the new Springfield Arms XD(M) for a side by side comparison as there appear to be some ergonomic similarities and they are both .40 cal.

I have only shot one older P220 but much enjoyed it. But then I have liked every P series Sig I have ever had the opportunity to handle or shoot. I am a big proponent of ergonomics on picking a firearm. The more I shoot and learn, the more I am interested in:

1) How does it fit my hand in general
2) Can I easily reach all controls present - safeties, mag release, decocker, hammer, trigger
3) Does it sight naturally in my hand, ie if I just pick it up or draw it from a holster and point it without adjusting my grip are my sights aligned, does it feel good
4) Balance which is hard to determine as you typically don't have an opportunity to handle the firearm with a full magazine while shopping.
5) Natural feel over all - does it feel good in my hand, is anything poking me or rubbing on my palm or web of my thumb, does the trigger fall naturally to my finger or do I have to reach for it or overly bend my finger to shoot.

IMO buying a gun is a lot like buying a pair of shoes. There are 2 things you need to figure out generally 1) is it appropriate for the purpose - you don't buy penny loafers to go jogging and you don't wear your featherlight jogging shoes to go hiking in rough terrain 2) do they fit and feel comfortable. While looks or branding play a role, it makes no sense to buy the best looking shoes or handgun or the most popular brand if uncomfortable or painful to wear/use because eventually you will just throw them in the closet and be done with it.

I find choosing a sidearm is a very personal decision. You can read all the gun mags, reviews, forum comments, etc but YOU are the one who has to carry it, YOU are the one who has to field strip it, YOU are the one who has to clean it, YOU are the one who will have to shoot and train with it and it is YOUR life or the life of your loved ones it may save one day. After reading and listening to opinions you need to go to a store where you can handle your final choices side by side, make final comparisons and make your final decision. Just my thoughts on it.
 
T

tarzan1888

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deepdiver wrote:
The P220 has an 8 rd mag unless you get a 10 rd extended mag.  The P99 has a 12 rd mag normally, but in CA a 10 rd mag as I understand.  So capacity really comes down to 8+1 or 10+1.

I have handled the P99 and liked it although I have not yet had the opportunity to shoot one.  If I were looking at a P99 I would also be checking out the new Springfield Arms XD(M) for a side by side comparison as there appear to be some ergonomic similarities and they are both .40 cal.

I have only shot one older P220 but much enjoyed it.  But then I have liked every P series Sig I have ever had the opportunity to handle or shoot.  I am a big proponent of ergonomics on picking a firearm.  The more I shoot and learn, the more I am interested in:

1) How does it fit my hand in general
2) Can I easily reach all controls present - safeties, mag release, decocker, hammer, trigger
3)  Does it sight naturally in my hand, ie if I just pick it up or draw it from a holster and point it without adjusting my grip are my sights aligned, does it feel good
4) Balance which is hard to determine as you typically don't have an opportunity to handle the firearm with a full magazine while shopping.
5) Natural feel over all - does it feel good in my hand, is anything poking me or rubbing on my palm or web of my thumb, does the trigger fall naturally to my finger or do I have to reach for it or overly bend my finger to shoot.

IMO buying a gun is a lot like buying a pair of shoes.  There are 2 things you need to figure out generally 1) is it appropriate for the purpose - you don't buy penny loafers to go jogging and you don't wear your featherlight jogging shoes to go hiking in rough terrain 2) do they fit and feel comfortable.   While looks or branding play a role, it makes no sense to buy the best looking shoes or handgun or the most popular brand if uncomfortable or painful to wear/use because eventually you will just throw them in the closet and be done with it. 

I find choosing a sidearm is a very personal decision.  You can read all the gun mags, reviews, forum comments, etc but YOU are the one who has to carry it, YOU are the one who has to field strip it, YOU are the one who has to clean it, YOU are the one who will have to shoot and train with it and it is YOUR life or the life of your loved ones it may save one day.  After reading and listening to opinions you need to go to a store where you can handle your final choices side by side, make final comparisons and make your final decision.  Just my thoughts on it.
Click to expand...

That, Sir, is some very good advice.



Tarzan
 
L

Lykosis

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Ditto cREbralFIX on the feel of the .40 vs. .45.

I have shot the Sig, but not the Walther. It is my understanding that both are great guns. To get everything straight, I am a .45 man (specifically 1911s), so I would go with the SIG 9 out of 10 times based on caliber alone. Comparing the two guns is rather hard, as you don't state which version of the P220 that you would purchase. Is it a DA/SA version, a SAO, or a DAO version. Given your experience with the 1911, I would suggest a SIG P220 SAO version, since you can carry locked and cocked and there is similar functionality with the 1911.

I have fired a SIG P220 DA/SA before. While the gun was very accurate, the trigger smooth, and fit my hand well, I do have one complaint about it, and SIGs in general. For me, the distance from my hand to the sights/top of the gun is just a little too much. While the gun did naturally point, I found that I preferred guns with a shorter distance from hand to sights suited me better. If this is not an issue for you, so much the better.

I have handled, but never shot the Walther. I prefered the overall feel of the SIG. There are a few different versions of the Walther as well.
 
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